Cash Machines at Govia Thameslink Railway stations to charge a fee

Bletchleyite · 28 Oct 2018

causton said:
I assume you are talking about the one at Bletchley station - I had the change in my pocket and by the time I had put my hand in and out my pocket they had already typed in the amount on the card reader

That's one that does it, but I have encountered it at a few recently. I think it's Apple and Android Pay that have driven the change - if you have to get your wallet out and open it, cash is about the same effort as card, a bit easier for those who carry pocket change. Whereas your phone is quicker as you don't have to open it and count it out.

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Bletchleyite · 28 Oct 2018

takno said:
Nice theory, but Barclays, Santander and Nationwide didn't take a bailout, and RBS is still more or less owned by the government. You'd basically only be able to make that argument about Lloyds (and therefore BoS/Halifax) and TSB. In practice most of the bailout was guarantees that were never called upon anyway, and there's no mechanism to get back the money in Lloyds that Osborne threw away by selling too early.

And in any case the cash machine companies that are charging (the banks aren't) are not any relation of the banks and were not bailed out.

Bletchleyite · 28 Oct 2018

curly42 said:
DarloRich - yes I'm absolutley sure that I don't have any cards,as I don't have a bank account.

Why do you not have a bank account? It is near impossible to exist legally as an adult without one. Or are you under 18?

Bletchleyite · 28 Oct 2018

route:oxford said:
Of course, Children under the age of 11 are not currently able to get a debit card in their own name.

Though there is GoHenry and the likes - prepaid cards.

JamesT · 28 Oct 2018

Teflon Lettuce said:
As long as you are willing to pay 2.5% on top of the ticket price if you make a credit card transaction... or you pay the transaction fee for debit card transactions.

At the end of the day the money that is in my bank account is mine why the hell should I be forced to pay to access my own money?

.

If someone is trying to charge you extra to pay by card, they’re breaking the law - https://www.gov.uk/government/news/card-surcharge-ban-means-no-more-nasty-surprises-for-shoppers

It’s your money, but you’ve given it to the bank to look after. In this country we mostly have a culture of ‘free’ banking so the banks recover their costs with penalties for those that get it wrong or charges for extra services. I’d be curious to see if other countries where the culture is to pay a service charge to have a bank account have so many other charges such as ATM withdrawal fees.

curly42 · 28 Oct 2018

Bletchleyite - I wish I was under 18 !! I'm a heck of a lot older I'm afraid. My wife looks after all the financies - both my pensions are paid into her account,and all our financial products are in her name. I just find it easier that way - never had a bank account in my life,strange it may seem (I was called "odd" in the pub recently when I disclosed that I've never owned a tv set),but there you go.

DarloRich · 28 Oct 2018

curly42 said:
DarloRich - yes I'm absolutley sure that I don't have any cards,as I don't have a bank account.

How do you not have a bank or building society account?

ComUtoR · 28 Oct 2018

JamesT said:
If someone is trying to charge you extra to pay by card, they’re breaking the law - https://www.gov.uk/government/news/card-surcharge-ban-means-no-more-nasty-surprises-for-shoppers

This pointless and stupid law was circumvented in seconds by many retailers. Granted it stopped my local newsagent and takeaway from charging 50p for card transactions but I still get charged regularly for most of my online purchases. Especially show/theatre/cinema tickets. Just Eat simply reworded the credit card charge to 'service charge'

I haven't had a credit card in over 20yrs and I never used to get charged when using a debit card but now I get hit with a 'service' and 'admin' charge.

talldave · 28 Oct 2018

Teflon Lettuce said:
why? stores are charged per debit/ credit card transaction and those costs aren't passed onto the customer... ever wondered why small shops frequently have a £5 or £10 minimum spend limit on card transactions?

Of course those costs are passed on to the customer, along with cash handling costs, business rates, insurances, etc. They're all covered in the mark-up on the goods you're buying.

route:oxford · 28 Oct 2018

curly42 said:
Bletchleyite - I wish I was under 18 !! I'm a heck of a lot older I'm afraid. My wife looks after all the financies - both my pensions are paid into her account,and all our financial products are in her name. I just find it easier that way - never had a bank account in my life,strange it may seem (I was called "odd" in the pub recently when I disclosed that I've never owned a tv set),but there you go.

Not to worry, that'll stop next year when the authentication of beneficiary service starts.

Your income *should* be bounced back until the account is switched into joint names.

radamfi · 28 Oct 2018

There's a cafe on the way to work in central London that doesn't even accept cash. In the Netherlands, some small branches of Albert Heijn (biggest grocery chain in the country) don't accept cash (and don't accept Visa/Mastercard either so many foreigners can't shop there, although the ones in tourist areas usually do accept those cards). So it is likely that those without bank cards will have increasingly fewer retail options in the future.

radamfi · 28 Oct 2018

It wasn't that long ago that you had to use a cash machine that was part of a network that your bank belonged to. So Barclays/Lloyds could use each other's machines. NatWest and Midland (now HSBC) were in another group and most of the remaining banks/building societies were in the Link group. I would guess there are many more free, bank owned and operated machines available to most customers now compared to those days. Fee charging ones are just extra convenience.

route:oxford · 28 Oct 2018

radamfi said:
It wasn't that long ago that you had to use a cash machine that was part of a network that your bank belonged to. So Barclays/Lloyds could use each other's machines. NatWest and Midland (now HSBC) were in another group and most of the remaining banks/building societies were in the Link group. I would guess there are many more free, bank owned and operated machines available to most customers now compared to those days. Fee charging ones are just extra convenience.

There were 4 main schemes with additional individual inter-bank reciprocity.

LINK (Abbey National, Nationwide, Girobank, Co-op + others)
Four-Bank (Barclays, Lloyds, RBS, BoS)
Matrix (Alliance & Leicester, Woolwich, National & Provincial + Others)
MINT (MIdland Natwest TSB)

Puffing Devil · 28 Oct 2018

krus_aragon said:
I haven't owned one yet, mainly due to not wanting/needing one enough. Though one might conceivably hit the credit limit on the card all the same.

These days I have access to a joint current account as well, so between those three options I find I'm well enough covered.

Perhaps time to think about getting one? There are many cashback cards out there that will earn you money as you spend. If you're disciplined and only use your card for planned spend you'll be fine. A monthly direct debit can clear the balance, or pay the bill from your savings account.

Another benefit is fraud - if your debit card is compromised, you have to fight the bank to get your money back. With a credit card it's the other way round. I have refused a contactless debit card and only use mine to draw cash about once a month.

Finally, a well-managed credit card is an asset on your credit score if you ever need a mortgage or a loan.

Teflon Lettuce · 28 Oct 2018

route:oxford said:
The company you bank with and accounts that you have form part of your lifestyle choices. You, or your partner may well have ticked the box at the time of opening saying "I/we don't want a debit card".

I do not need to be careful about the way I speak. I am responding based on facts, and professional integrity. I've been involved with the promotion of basic banking services and the enhancements to those services for a quarter century.

Whereas as highlighted above, you are happy to wantonly promulgate falsehoods.

well if you're a financial advisor I wouldn't come to you for advice as you are a) downright rude and b) you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.... when I took out the basic bank account I didn't tick any boxes to say I didn't want a debit card because there was no option to have one. Strange as it may seem to you but I do know what facilities are available on ALL my accounts...strangely you seem to know more than me about them without having the slightest idea who I bank with.
Quite simply not all current/ instant access accounts come with a debit/ credit card.... some really do come with only a cash card to access money through atm's... and if you wish to deny that then your "professional integrity" is shot to pieces because it is you that is "wantonly promulgating falsehoods"

radamfi · 28 Oct 2018

Teflon Lettuce said:
when I took out the basic bank account I didn't tick any boxes to say I didn't want a debit card because there was no option to have one.

What about now? Would you be able to, should you wish to, get a bank account with a debit card at either your current or another bank?

Puffing Devil · 28 Oct 2018

Teflon Lettuce said:
a basic bank account or a cash card account.. neither of which can be used for card transactions as they do not provide debit cards...

Teflon Lettuce said:
Quite simply not all current/ instant access accounts come with a debit/ credit card.... some really do come with only a cash card to access money through atm's... and if you wish to deny that then your "professional integrity" is shot to pieces because it is you that is "wantonly promulgating falsehoods"

My bolding this time. A simple, "I'm sorry, I was incorrect in my first post would suffice"

Teflon Lettuce · 28 Oct 2018

Puffing Devil said:
My bolding this time. A simple, "I'm sorry, I was incorrect in my first post would suffice"

why? I've nothing to apologise for.... I was right... there are banking products including some basic current accounts that do not offer debit/ credit cards and only come with cashcards to access atms

Teflon Lettuce · 28 Oct 2018

JamesT said:
If someone is trying to charge you extra to pay by card, they’re breaking the law - https://www.gov.uk/government/news/card-surcharge-ban-means-no-more-nasty-surprises-for-shoppers

It’s your money, but you’ve given it to the bank to look after. In this country we mostly have a culture of ‘free’ banking so the banks recover their costs with penalties for those that get it wrong or charges for extra services.

Exactly my point, however I am paying for something it is my money that I am using.. it is illegal to charge a fee for using cards... so why is it legal for banks to charge a fee for wanting to pay by cash?

If you think about it it's a very clever move by the banks.. they've spent years decimating their branch networks, especially in rural areas, giving the usual sop that no-one will be inconvenienced because there are plenty of cash machines to access your money... now they have got us into the situation whereby in many places there are no longer a branch of your own bank for miles around they've now started a programme to end free atm's because of "cost"

Puffing Devil · 28 Oct 2018

Teflon Lettuce said:
why? I've nothing to apologise for.... I was right... there are banking products including some basic current accounts that do not offer debit/ credit cards and only come with cashcards to access atms

No - in your first post, which I quoted, you clearly stated that basic bank accounts did not provide debit cards. Not some, or just mine. There was no qualifier. You changed this in your later post. An apology rather than an attack would be nice, though I can see you'd struggle to do that.

Puffing Devil · 28 Oct 2018

Teflon Lettuce said:
Exactly my point, however I am paying for something it is my money that I am using.. it is illegal to charge a fee for using cards... so why is it legal for banks to charge a fee for wanting to pay by cash?

If you think about it it's a very clever move by the banks.. they've spent years decimating their branch networks, especially in rural areas, giving the usual sop that no-one will be inconvenienced because there are plenty of cash machines to access your money... now they have got us into the situation whereby in many places there are no longer a branch of your own bank for miles around they've now started a programme to end free atm's because of "cost"

If may be your money, it is the retailer's transaction and they are free to decide if they want your business or not. Their choice. You can't force anyone to trade with you or the terms they put on that transaction unless there is specific law to prevent it, for example credit card surcharges or discrimination.

It's less about a clever move by the banks and more about progress. We want "free" banking, this is the cost of free banking. Try opening a business bank account and you'll see how much they pay. Cash handling is not cheap. Bank branches are not cheap. We're seeing the same progress in banking as we are in the rest of the High Street - cheaper, online options are taking over. Want to pay cash in your local store - you'll pay a premium to cover their costs.

ianBR · 28 Oct 2018

Most of the planned interchange fee cut from 25p to 20p over 4 years has been abandoned with only this years cut implemented

So the operators are losing 1 or 2p per transaction and yet at Brighton the cash machines will be charging £1.99 per withdrawal! And only telling people at the last minute rather than having a giant sign above the machine

GTR should be looking for other operators

radamfi · 28 Oct 2018

Teflon Lettuce said:
so why is it legal for banks to charge a fee for wanting to pay by cash?

Even without cash machine fees you are effectively already paying for the privilege of using cash, because you are missing out on cashback you could have earned using a debit or credit card.

route:oxford · 28 Oct 2018

Teflon Lettuce said:
well if you're a financial advisor I wouldn't come to you for advice as you are a) downright rude and b) you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.... when I took out the basic bank account I didn't tick any boxes to say I didn't want a debit card because there was no option to have one. Strange as it may seem to you but I do know what facilities are available on ALL my accounts...strangely you seem to know more than me about them without having the slightest idea who I bank with.
Quite simply not all current/ instant access accounts come with a debit/ credit card.... some really do come with only a cash card to access money through atm's... and if you wish to deny that then your "professional integrity" is shot to pieces because it is you that is "wantonly promulgating falsehoods"

I know exactly what I'm talking about, which is why I pointed out that you were wantonly promulgating falsehoods. I don't work in financial advice, I work for an organisation that overseas the services across all banks.

State exactly which bank you bank with - don't take too long trying to find one that doesn't offer a debit card for their basic bank accounts now...

Just to be balanced, I hold current or savings accounts with...

Lloyds
RBS
HSBC
First Direct
Clydesdale
Barclays
Nationwide
Santander
Skipton
Virgin Money

and in addtion have Credit Cards from

MBNA, Amex, Creation, M&S, John Lewis, NewDay, BoS, Barclaycard, Virgin Money

bramling · 28 Oct 2018

Puffing Devil said:
If may be your money, it is the retailer's transaction and they are free to decide if they want your business or not. Their choice. You can't force anyone to trade with you or the terms they put on that transaction unless there is specific law to prevent it, for example credit card surcharges or discrimination.

It's less about a clever move by the banks and more about progress. We want "free" banking, this is the cost of free banking. Try opening a business bank account and you'll see how much they pay. Cash handling is not cheap. Bank branches are not cheap. We're seeing the same progress in banking as we are in the rest of the High Street - cheaper, online options are taking over. Want to pay cash in your local store - you'll pay a premium to cover their costs.

Whilst I don’t disagree with anything above, seeing how much banks get off some people in penalty charges and interest payments, I won’t be losing any sleep over the costs of cash handling and running bank branches not being cheap!

route:oxford · 28 Oct 2018

bramling said:
Whilst I don’t disagree with anything above, seeing how much banks get off some people in penalty charges and interest payments, I won’t be losing any sleep over the costs of cash handling and running bank branches not being cheap!

It's an expensive business for retailers and banks. When we did an analysis recently, it costs £18 to have a £20 sack of 1p pieces delivered.

Teflon Lettuce · 28 Oct 2018

Puffing Devil said:
It's less about a clever move by the banks and more about progress. We want "free" banking, this is the cost of free banking. Try opening a business bank account and you'll see how much they pay. Cash handling is not cheap. Bank branches are not cheap. We're seeing the same progress in banking as we are in the rest of the High Street - cheaper, online options are taking over. Want to pay cash in your local store - you'll pay a premium to cover their costs.

hmm... nice theory... shame it all falls down on the fact that free banking has been around for as long as I have had a current account {30 yrs} in all that time cash machines, in general, were free to use... but in the last 5 yrs or so there has been a concerted effort by the banking sector to try and withdraw free cash machines.. as for free banking do we really have that? how much money did the taxpayer lose through the bailouts? to the nearest billion will do for an answer....

Teflon Lettuce · 28 Oct 2018

route:oxford said:
It's an expensive business for retailers and banks. When we did an analysis recently, it costs £18 to have a £20 sack of 1p pieces delivered.

all well and good but for a couple of things... the kind of business that puts a minimum spend on a card isn't the sort of business that has 1p coins delivered by the sackful...they are the kind of business that will get their change float from the previous day's takings...
and more pertinent to this thread {being about cash machines that charge} I've yet to see a cash machine that dispenses 1p pieces... so your example hardly has any merit in defending charges for using cash machines

bnm · 28 Oct 2018

route:oxford said:
State exactly which bank you bank with - don't take too long trying to find one that doesn't offer a debit card for their basic bank accounts now...

Perhaps, like me, he has a legacy HSBC Basic Bank Account that is cash card only. I no longer use said account, but it's still open and HSBC haven't upgraded my card to a Visa/Mastercard Debit.

Or maybe Santander. They, until recently, only offered a cash card with their basic account.

Other banks in the recent past also only offered cash cards. Those legacy accounts may not have been upgraded to include a debit card.

ComUtoR · 28 Oct 2018

route:oxford said:
Just to be balanced, I hold current or savings accounts with...

Lots™

and in addtion have Credit Cards from

loads™

Why so many ? Is there a benefit to having that many accounts ? Until recently (about a 2 years ago) I only ever had one bank account. I understand a Current account + Savings account. I also understand the FSCS Cap too.

Cash Machines at Govia Thameslink Railway stations to charge a fee

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