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East-West Rail (EWR): Consultation updates [not speculation]

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Dunnyrail

Dunnyrail

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Andyjs247 said:
It must be remembered that those figures for roads relate to the strategic road network of motorways and trunk roads - some 4,300 miles in England. There is a lot more that Highways England doesn’t manage and which is funded at a more local level.
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Indeed so and much of it is likely not supported by VED which it should be meaning that Local Residents are subsidising the Road network that allows HGV willy nilly to go wherever they wish without properly paying their costs, trashing Roads in the process that all drivers complain about. There needs to be transparancy about the costs of the Road network so that it can be funded properly. And direct for all roads from VED. But this will never happen.
 
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multilevel

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Must remember that everyone benefits from HGVs taking good around the country. Also higher VED for HGVs will translate into higher costs for operators which translates into higher prices in the shops. I don't disagree that we need to be aware of the true costs of what how we, as a country, organise ourselves but it's hard to completely get away from some cross-subsidisation occurring.
 
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edwin_m

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multilevel said:
Must remember that everyone benefits from HGVs taking good around the country. Also higher VED for HGVs will translate into higher costs for operators which translates into higher prices in the shops. I don't disagree that we need to be aware of the true costs of what how we, as a country, organise ourselves but it's hard to completely get away from some cross-subsidisation occurring.
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But if the government raised VED they would have more income and could either spend it on something that benefitted people or reduce other taxes. And if by doing so it reduced the use of heavy vehicles (probably unlikely with VED, a fuel or mileage charge would be better) then there would be a saving in road maintenance too.
 
Dunnyrail

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multilevel said:
Must remember that everyone benefits from HGVs taking good around the country. Also higher VED for HGVs will translate into higher costs for operators which translates into higher prices in the shops. I don't disagree that we need to be aware of the true costs of what how we, as a country, organise ourselves but it's hard to completely get away from some cross-subsidisation occurring.
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Good thoughts, but many if the HGV’s on our Roads are from outside of UK and contribute little to the Road Costs that they cause. I just want to see a level playing field between Road and Rail. Sorry Mods this is a bit thread drifty.
 
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Bletchleyite

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Dunnyrail said:
Good thoughts, but many if the HGV’s on our Roads are from outside of UK and contribute little to the Road Costs that they cause. I just want to see a level playing field between Road and Rail. Sorry Mods this is a bit thread drifty.
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The best way to solve this is to do what a number of other European countries have done and introduce road pricing for commercial vehicles.
 
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camflyer

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Bletchleyite said:
The best way to solve this is to do what a number of other European countries have done and introduce road pricing for commercial vehicles.
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And who will end up paying these road pricing fees? The end customer (i.e. you and me) of course.
 
8H

8H

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camflyer said:
And who will end up paying these road pricing fees? The end customer (i.e. you and me) of course.
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And who will end up paying for the lost revenue from Severn Bridge tolls ? :lol:
Road haulage given another free pass :'(
 
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al green

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geoffk said:
There's an article on East-West Rail in the latest "Today's Railways", which refers to the main line platforms at Quainton Road having fencing installed. I know this is not a major source of traffic but surely the Buckinghamshire Railway Centre will want trains to stop there on opening days as there will be visitors from both Aylesbury and Milton Keynes.
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I was assured last year that the fence would be removable and specials would still be able to call at Quainton. The TWAO documents appear to support this.
 
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work-traveller

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al green said:
I was assured last year that the fence would be removable and specials would still be able to call at Quainton. The TWAO documents appear to support this.
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Correct.

Also, EWR doesn't prevent Bucks Railway Centre from extending up to Verney Jct in the future.

However, the HS2 re-routing of Station Road to the north will put a highway embankment over the old track bed of the Verney Jct route. Bucks Railway Centre petitioned Parliament about this, asking that a bridge be put in to the new highway embankment to allow for a future Verney Jct extention. The HoL select committee didn't agree to this however, on the ground that BRC have no funds, no plans to obtain funds and no planning permission.

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld201617/ldselect/ldhs2/83/83.pdf (Para.116)
 
RPM

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work-traveller said:
Correct.

Also, EWR doesn't prevent Bucks Railway Centre from extending up to Verney Jct in the future.

However, the HS2 re-routing of Station Road to the north will put a highway embankment over the old track bed of the Verney Jct route. Bucks Railway Centre petitioned Parliament about this, asking that a bridge be put in to the new highway embankment to allow for a future Verney Jct extention. The HoL select committee didn't agree to this however, on the ground that BRC have no funds, no plans to obtain funds and no planning permission.

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld201617/ldselect/ldhs2/83/83.pdf (Para.116)
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They would also have to contend with another bridge replaced by an embankment at Shipton Lee and a long section of infilled cutting around Hogshaw. I don't believe for a moment this extension was ever going to happen, HS2 or no HS2.
 
Dunnyrail

Dunnyrail

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RPM said:
They would also have to contend with another bridge replaced by an embankment at Shipton Lee and a long section of infilled cutting around Hogshaw. I don't believe for a moment this extension was ever going to happen, HS2 or no HS2.
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Sadly I believe you are probably correct. I find that the Quainton lot appear to be happy just puffing up and down a few yards of Track. Very sad really as they have sone some nice work on restoration and the Rewly Road Station is just divine.
 
Dunnyrail

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L&Y Robert said:
The VED used to be called "The Road Fund license". A fund for roads. It isn't now, though - it's just another tax.
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I think it should be remembered that Roads are funded by multiple different sources, Central Government do Motorways and A Roads. Local Community Charge appears to do the rest. Thus there is no real transparency in how the costs are apportioned or degined to the effect that all motorists and by infrence trucks, busses etc feel that they pay too much VED or other Tax as the Insurance Tax and Fuel Tax. These must also be counted as well. My viiw is and has always been that the costs are never properly covered by all of these Taxes and that Community Charge is subsidising the Roads. But of course there is no desire to make any if this transparent. Divide and Rule.
 
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jimm

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L&Y Robert said:
The VED used to be called "The Road Fund license". A fund for roads. It isn't now, though - it's just another tax.
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Exactly. The money raised by this tax - whatever the name - has not been specifically allocated towards the costs of roads since the mid-1930s.

The UK Treasury has never liked hypothecated taxation - that the money a particular tax raises is allocated to a specific area of spending. In essence, tax revenue, wherever it comes from, goes into one big pot before being allocated to various areas of spending.

Dunnyrail said:
I think it should be remembered that Roads are funded by multiple different sources, Central Government do Motorways and A Roads. Local Community Charge appears to do the rest. Thus there is no real transparency in how the costs are apportioned or degined to the effect that all motorists and by infrence trucks, busses etc feel that they pay too much VED or other Tax as the Insurance Tax and Fuel Tax. These must also be counted as well. My viiw is and has always been that the costs are never properly covered by all of these Taxes and that Community Charge is subsidising the Roads. But of course there is no desire to make any if this transparent. Divide and Rule.
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Community Charge isn't raising anything - that was the fancy name for the unlamented poll tax. Council Tax raises less than a quarter of the money spent by councils - everything else they spend comes in block grants from the government, including money raised in business rates.

That is not exactly a secret, nor is it a secret that people don't like paying taxes - lorry operators wouldn't like road pricing either - but so long as politicians of all parties continue to pretend that we can all have super-low taxes and super-good public services at the same time, transparency about where money comes from - such as hiking National Insurance to make up for income tax 'cuts' - and where it is spent is that last thing you are going to get.
 
Mordac

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jimm said:
Exactly. The money raised by this tax - whatever the name - has not been specifically allocated towards the costs of roads since the mid-1930s.

The UK Treasury has never liked hypothecated taxation - that the money a particular tax raises is allocated to a specific area of spending. In essence, tax revenue, wherever it comes from, goes into one big pot before being allocated to various areas of spending.



Community Charge isn't raising anything - that was the fancy name for the unlamented poll tax. Council Tax raises less than a quarter of the money spent by councils - everything else they spend comes in block grants from the government, including money raised in business rates.

That is not exactly a secret, nor is it a secret that people don't like paying taxes - lorry operators wouldn't like road pricing either - but so long as politicians of all parties continue to pretend that we can all have super-low taxes and super-good public services at the same time, transparency about where money comes from - such as hiking National Insurance to make up for income tax 'cuts' - and where it is spent is that last thing you are going to get.
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50% of money raised in business rates has been retained locally for a few years. The other 50% does go into a central pot, but it is redistributed to councils on a needs based formula, it doesn't go into the general revenue pot.
 
hooverboy

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jimm said:
Exactly.
That is not exactly a secret, nor is it a secret that people don't like paying taxes - lorry operators wouldn't like road pricing either - but so long as politicians of all parties continue to pretend that we can all have super-low taxes and super-good public services at the same time, transparency about where money comes from - such as hiking National Insurance to make up for income tax 'cuts' - and where it is spent is that last thing you are going to get.
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we can have lower taxes and better public services if the local government money is spent better. simple.
why should we be paying £xxxxx on diversity co-ordinators if the bins aren't being emptied on time(which in itself presents a health hazard)

local government needs to get their priorities right..end of
arts/leisure and so on are not core services...they should not be equipped as such financially.
most are ..to be frank...vanity projects.and do not deserve any significant resource, either financially or manpower.

priority 1 is roads and bins clear and clean.lights on.
 
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Bald Rick

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hooverboy said:
priority 1 is roads and bins clear and clean.lights on.
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How wrong can you be.

Priorities for local authorities are:

* social housing so that everyone can have a roof over their heads
* education so that children (and adults) can learn how to make their lives, and by extension society, better.
* social care to protect those disadvantaged
* providing emergency services, public safety, and upholding law and order (police, fire & rescue)

Then we start getting towards transport and the environment.
 
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deltic08

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Bald Rick said:
How wrong can you be.

Priorities for local authorities are:

* social housing so that everyone can have a roof over their heads
* education so that children (and adults) can learn how to make their lives, and by extension society, better.
* social care to protect those disadvantaged
* providing emergency services, public safety, and upholding law and order (police, fire & rescue)

Then we start getting towards transport and the environment.
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I don't usually agree with Bald Rick but on this occasion I have to support him.
 
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Clayton

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hooverboy said:
we can have lower taxes and better public services if the local government money is spent better. simple.
why should we be paying £xxxxx on diversity co-ordinators if the bins aren't being emptied on time(which in itself presents a health hazard)

local government needs to get their priorities right..end of
arts/leisure and so on are not core services...they should not be equipped as such financially.
most are ..to be frank...vanity projects.and do not deserve any significant resource, either financially or manpower.

priority 1 is roads and bins clear and clean.lights on.
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If you think ROADS are so important why on earth are you here? You have odd ideas about local government priorities, not that they are relevant
 
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jyte

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How about we get this thread away from local councils, their funding & expenditure and back onto EWR again please? If I wanted to talk politics I'd browse twitter, but I'd quite like to talk about trains.
 
Dunnyrail

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jyte said:
How about we get this thread away from local councils, their funding & expenditure and back onto EWR again please? If I wanted to talk politics I'd browse twitter, but I'd quite like to talk about trains.
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Sorry I may in part have been rsponsible for this, but in truth the act of Politicing does effect the ability to get the Ox-Cam line built in full. A line that we and apparently many of the Political Classes agree needs to be built and soo. But with the current bull surrounding building aven a small Station we are likely to be a decade or two before trains from Oxford are likely to be rolling into Cambridge. That is unless someone of real importance, drive and ability picks up the mantle.
 
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gallafent

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Neen Sollars said:
New look East West Rail website just launched. Looks to be a bit of new stuff in there. Just hope that real construction work does start in the autumn of 2019.

https://www.eastwestrail.org.uk/
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Interesting, thanks for the heads-up. From https://eastwestrail.co.uk/the-project/western-section:

=====
This approach allows the following new services to be phased in over several years, with services between Oxford and Bicester already operating through Chiltern Railways. The first of the remaining services will be introduced by the end of 2023.
  • Oxford and Bicester: three services per hour (delivered)
  • Oxford and Milton Keynes: two services per hour
  • Oxford and Bedford: one service per hour
  • Milton Keynes and Aylesbury: one service per hour
=====

I only noticed two services per hour (in each direction) at the moment between Oxford and Bicester. Have I missed something?! ;)

Related, surely the services between Oxford/MK and Oxford/Bedford will also be stopping at Bicester, right? … in which case the final delivery (in this phase) of Oxford/Bicester (assuming we keep the existing 2 Oxford/London services which all stop there) would be 5, not 3 (that's 2xOxford/London as now, 2xOxford/MK, 1xOxford/Bedford).

So I found that a bit confusing, but anyway, good to see new information and activity! Look forward to reports from the public enquiry!

… and as for reopening the Bicester/Bletchley section, it can't come soon enough for the likes of me (travelling frequently between Vale of White Horse and Central Bedfordshire). The A34 / A41 (/ A421 / A422) are very tedious roads, whether in the X5 coach or in one's own car, and these days I'm almost always the latter, since my door-to-door journeys are so much longer if I use any of the public transport options … a random google maps check departing my house at 1000 on a weekday gives a best effort of 2h58m (2 buses and 3 trains), which doesn't compare well in time with the 1h5m by car (which I know to be about right), and that's before even looking at the ticket cost. Interesting aside is that those fastest routes doesn't even involve the X5 coach or 280 bus any more — taking the train all the way up to Coventry then back down the West Coast Main Line works out faster, which is fairly remarkable. Either way, it's actually about the same time by public transport as cycling the route (about 40 miles) (well, if I were a little bit fitter). Roll on better east-west connections!
 
Dunnyrail

Dunnyrail

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Neen Sollars said:
New look East West Rail website just launched. Looks to be a bit of new stuff in there. Just hope that real construction work does start in the autumn of 2019.

https://www.eastwestrail.org.uk/
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Very interesting, many thanks for posting. Of the members in the Consortium I note that South Cambs and Cambs Council are listed but no Combined Peterborough and Cambridge Mayor. Perhaps he was created too late to be incorporated in the Consortium.
 
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Class 170101

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http://www.railtechnologymagazine.c...rtners-to-deliver-cambridge-bedford-rail-link

East West Rail seeking partners to deliver Cambridge-Bedford rail link
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East West Railway Company (EWRC) has announced it is seeking specialist partners to deliver the central section of its new rail line between Cambridge and Bedford, after publishing a prior information notice (PIN) today.

The EWRC is developing the line between Oxford and Cambridge, and there are plans for the long-abandoned line between Bedford and Cambridge to be reopened as the old route has now been blocked.

Now the rail company has published a prior information notice seeking delivery partners to help with the ‘central section’, inviting companies to register their interests ahead of talks in February.

The new rail line will connect Bedford and Cambridge, and the line is due to be completed in the 2020s— with most of the western section between Oxford and Bedford already open.

The government re-stated its commitment to accelerating the delivery of the central section in the 2018 budget, announcing £20m for the EWRC.

East West Railway Company chief executive Simon Blanchflower said: “We want to hear from organisations with wide-ranging expertise and experience, who want to work with East West Rail to drive this crucial infrastructure project forward.

“It’s a unique opportunity to be involved in shaping the project from the outset. This is not the ‘same old’ approach - we want to build lasting partnerships and a motivated supply chain who will together help us deliver this exciting new railway line.

“Today we are kicking off genuine engagement with the market – not just briefing them on our plans but listening to them about how we can best unlock their expertise to support our project. We are determined to learn the lessons of the past and harness new innovations for the future.”
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Thoughts on this?
 
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camflyer

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Jorge Da Silva said:
They seem to be moving ahead with the Central Section and a route will hopefully be announced soon.
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I'm at the stage now where I don't really care which route they choose. They just need to get on with it.

Both the southern approach to Cambridge (via Sandy) and the northern one (via A428 corridor, as proposed by CamBedRailroad) have their advantages and disadvantages but I could live with either. It would just be nice to be able to ride on the service sometime in the next 20 years.
 
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