Chris Grayling blames unions for rail fare hike

Cardiff123 · 2 Jan 2019

Nothing to do with yours (and successive) governments choosing to reduce taxpayer support for the railway and push costs increasingly on to passengers, Mr. Grayling?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46731749

Chris Grayling blames unions for rail fare hike
Transport Secretary Chris Grayling has accused trade unions of driving the 3.1% increase in rail fares.

Mr Grayling told the BBC unions had demanded "higher pay rises than anyone else" and threatened strikes if they did not get them.

The Rail, Maritime and Transport Union said it was "scandalous" that Mr Grayling was trying to blame workers.

Rail fares have increased by an average of almost 3% in Scotland and 3.1% in England and Wales.

Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn called the increase a "disgrace" and said it "drives people away from public transport".

Mr Grayling told the BBC Radio 4's Today programme: "The reality is the fare increases are higher than they should be because the unions demand - with threats of national rail strikes if they don't get them - higher pay rises than anybody else."

In August, the government asked the train operators and unions to use a different, lower, inflation measure to set pay and fare increases - which the RMT opposed.

Mick Cash, general secretary of RMT, accused Mr Grayling of trying to blame rail workers for problems "caused by privatisation of the railways".

RailUK Forums

AlexNL · 2 Jan 2019

Well, Grayling is not wrong per se. The RMT have lobbied for keeping RPI in the past, which is documented on their very own website: https://www.rmt.org.uk/about/polici...mpts-to-sideline-the-retail-prices-index-rpi/

If the RMT want pay rises which align with RPI, it has to come from somewhere. Unless government subsidies go up (unlikely under a Tory gov), the money will have to come from the farebox.

hooverboy · 2 Jan 2019

nothing at all wrong with wanting an RPI pay rise. CPI is a dishonest measure of inflation anyway.

however, it does not have to just come from the farebox.
maintaining the status quo in the way things are operated is ultimately the problem.staff need to multi-skill and be much more flexible,otherwise the grim reaper has no other choice than to automate and cut headcount

If I was management I would be looking for a bonus scheme to be employed which would be payable if certain levels of punctuality and reliability are met(which would not be if strikes were happening), rather than just a straight pay increase.
It needs to be sizeable enough to hurt if not met,but smile if successful ,10-15% of salary is about the benchmark

I might even look at subdividing the lines signed into "teams" so each bears ultimate responsibility for the achievement of the bonus for them and their colleagues on that particular line.
A bit of peer pressure rather than top down diktat is far more effective on an underperforming team member.it is quite a powerful tool to provide kick up the pants if needed (this tactic is well known by teachers and military instructors!)

also with some enhancements for learning new routes and providing cover to them as an when needed.

There would need to be a bit of slack in such an offer to cater for cluster****s like the may timetable changes- which were ultimately network rail/DFT 's fault. Not fair to penalise TOC employees for that, but you get the drift

Andyh82 · 2 Jan 2019

Whilst I’m no fan of Grayling, it’s always quite ironic how the RMT slam fare rises yet in the next breath demand above inflation pay increases for their members.

Would they prefer a fares freeze and hence a pay freeze as well?

Dave1987 · 2 Jan 2019

Once again Grayling has gone for the easy pickings, the ordinary staff on the ground. The ORR have released figures stating that staff wages make up just 25% of the cost of the railways. What he fails to admit is how his departments failings are pushing up costs elsewhere. Trains that are bearly half life are likely heading for the scrap yard because of the new trains bonanza which will push up leasing costs. No it’s far easier for Grayling to attack ordinary staff than it is to admit his own gross failings. Grayling definitely has a default mode, blame the unions for absolutely everything.

Wilts Wanderer · 2 Jan 2019

The day RMT policies dictate the running of the railways will be the day the industry truly bankrupts itself.

Megafuss · 2 Jan 2019

I honestly hate it when a politician on either side plays the union/profit card. The figures speak for themselves. Wages aren't the highest cost (although it is a quarter) and profits are not massive (2%).

I suppose telling folk the truth that if they want lower fares everybody will need to pay more tax just doesn't sound nice...

Mag_seven · 2 Jan 2019

The government could easily help people out by abolishing the RPI+X fare increase every year. They have frozen fuel duty, so why not rail fares?

LNW-GW Joint · 2 Jan 2019

Grayling didn't ask the TOCs to use CPI, he has just been musing about it being one way of moderating rail fare increases (which it is).
CPI is now the main inflation figure the government uses for all sorts of benefits.
Maybe the RMT would prefer nationalisation, the consequent public sector 1% rises and DOO imposed by the national TOC (as BR did in the old days).

mlambeuk · 2 Jan 2019

What about delay repays of less than 1 hour, how are the costs for them recovered?

ainsworth74 · 2 Jan 2019

Mag_seven said:
The government could easily help people out by abolishing the RPI+X fare increase every year. They have frozen fuel duty, so why not rail fares?

Yes quite. It is the Government that decides the level of the percentage increase and it is also the government that decided that the fare box would support more of the running costs of the industry than the taxpayer (50/50 became 75/25).

How that then translates into the RMT being to blame for fare increases is somewhat beyond me.

Cardiff123 · 2 Jan 2019

Mag_seven said:
The government could easily help people out by abolishing the RPI+X fare increase every year. They have frozen fuel duty, so why not rail fares?

Not only have they frozen fuel duty for the last 9 years, they've abolished the Severn Bridge tolls. In 2014 when giving evidence to the Silk commission on devolution in Wales, they stated that the Severn Bridge tolls would have to stay when the bridges came into public ownership in 2018 to carry on paying for maintenance.
Then an election was called in 2017, and they saw abolishing the tolls to be a vote winner. It didn't work, but by abolishing bridge tolls and freezing fuel duty for over 9 years, drivers are being subsidised but rail passengers are continually hit year on year, at a time when pollution in many cities is above WHO legal limits and we desperately need to encourage people out of cars.
But I wonder where the government sees the most votes being won? :rolleyes:

Andyh82 · 2 Jan 2019

Dave1987 said:
Once again Grayling has gone for the easy pickings, the ordinary staff on the ground. The ORR have released figures stating that staff wages make up just 25% of the cost of the railways. What he fails to admit is how his departments failings are pushing up costs elsewhere. Trains that are bearly half life are likely heading for the scrap yard because of the new trains bonanza which will push up leasing costs. No it’s far easier for Grayling to attack ordinary staff than it is to admit his own gross failings. Grayling definitely has a default mode, blame the unions for absolutely everything.

On the other hand though the RMT always suggest the fare rises are going straight into the pocket of fat cat Germans, when in actual fact only 2% of a fare is profit for the TOCs (and I bet certain German owned ones are taking home much less than that)

Dave1987 · 2 Jan 2019

Andyh82 said:
On the other hand though the RMT always suggest the fare rises are going straight into the pocket of fat cat Germans, when in actual fact only 2% of a fare is profit for the TOCs (and I bet certain German owned ones are taking home much less than that)

TBH I always ignore the stuff put out by the RMT head honchos. If they were my union I would not be happy with the mannerisms in the PR they put out. But they do represent some of the most poorly paid staff on the railway. Grayling is part of a Government that claims it wants to create lots of highly paid jobs yet his default setting is to attack the pay of those at the bottom. Tells you everything about him really. Yet absolutely nothing is his fault.

LAX54 · 2 Jan 2019

There has been a lot of complaining on the GEML today about the increase, (Colchester to London) it is now £6428 pa, GA's website when applying for a yearly season says, allowing for annual leave, it works out at £13,85 a day, which breaks down to 7p per mile, which bearing in mind is valid 7 days a week (whether you use it or not) is still good value I would have thought?

RPi when fares decided was 3.2%, current offer to Unions (with usual strings) 2%

LNW-GW Joint · 2 Jan 2019

Cardiff123 said:
Not only have they frozen fuel duty for the last 9 years, they've abolished the Severn Bridge tolls. In 2014 when giving evidence to the Silk commission on devolution in Wales, they stated that the Severn Bridge tolls would have to stay when the bridges came into public ownership in 2018 to carry on paying for maintenance.
Then an election was called in 2017, and they saw abolishing the tolls to be a vote winner. It didn't work, but by abolishing bridge tolls and freezing fuel duty for over 9 years, drivers are being subsidised but rail passengers are continually hit year on year, at a time when pollution in many cities is above WHO legal limits and we desperately need to encourage people out of cars.
But I wonder where the government sees the most votes being won?

I suspect the reason is the TOCs are underperforming (various reports of franchises in trouble, not to mention VTEC), so the DfT is not getting the revenue in to fund any relaxation of the formula.
LNER taking over East Coast might be applauded, but if it delivers lower premiums than VTEC it only adds to Grayling's problem.
The strikes and timetable disruptions will also be having an effect on TOC revenues.
And in his other hand Network Rail is overspending, and Crossrail (TfL) has needed a double bail out.
Sometimes the railway has to live within its means.
Mr Corbyn hasn't explained how his magic solution would be funded (and Labour invented RPI+x).

Starmill · 2 Jan 2019

I'll say the same thing I said last time. RPI should be banned, with the exception of government bonds which use it as these may take a long time to sort out. There is a very clear and well informed consensus against that use of RPI in nearly every circumstance. If it weren't for those bonds, I wonder if the ONS would continue to publish it - it has been published as a legacy measure for several years now.

All of this mush from the Secretary of State is a transparent attempt to shift blame away from himself - something which he is very practiced at. This is a shameless ans cyclical ploy to balme railway staff for the problems of the industry, and pit long suffering customers against them. Continuing to use RPI for anything including rail fares and the student loan scheme, is a total cop-out, and Ministers know it.

CPIH is the new measure that people's pay increases could be tied to. I would argue strongly for nearly everyone in this country to receive an annual increase in line with this as a minimum - starting with every single public sector worker. What do you say to that then, Mr Grayling?

alastair · 2 Jan 2019

swills said:
There has been a lot of complaining on the GEML today about the increase, (Colchester to London) it is now £6428 pa, GA's website when applying for a yearly season says, allowing for annual leave, it works out at £13,85 a day, which breaks down to 7p per mile, which bearing in mind is valid 7 days a week (whether you use it or not) is still good value I would have thought?

RPi when fares decided was 3.2%, current offer to Unions (with usual strings) 2%

that's definitely not right. if you work a 5 day week and have 5 weeks holiday, over a year that is 47 weeks X 5 which makes 235 days. £6428 divided by 235 is £27.35 a day (unless they mean the £13.85 is each way?)

gazzaa2 · 2 Jan 2019

So in the 25 years since privatisation has the average wage on the railway gone up by the same percentage of the average ticket?

This was the increase from 1995 to 2013 on different routes and in the 5-6 years since you can add a lot more.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-21056703

pemma · 2 Jan 2019

This isn't new news. Months ago it was reported he asked the rail unions to accept salary increases based on CPI and said if they did that then future fare rises would be based on CPI. The union leaders rolled on the floor laughing after he suggested that. I'm sure we already had a thread on this last year.

pemma · 2 Jan 2019

gazzaa2 said:
So in the 25 years since privatisation has the average wage on the railway gone up by the same percentage of the average ticket?

Note that train drivers have seen their salaries increase at a much faster rate than station staff, while some ticket types have increased at faster rates than others. So when you take the average ticket increase and the average salary increase they'll be pretty meaningless figures.

gazzaa2 · 2 Jan 2019

jcollins said:
Note that train drivers have seen their salaries increase at a much faster rate than station staff, while some ticket types have increased at faster rates than others. So when you take the average ticket increase and the average salary increase they'll be pretty meaningless figures.

Whether you use the mean or the mode i'm sure more rail fares have more than doubled than staff salaries have since the mid 90s.

Starmill · 2 Jan 2019

alastair said:
£27.35 a day (unless they mean the £13.85 is each way?)

Notably this is more expensive than that Super Off Peak Day Return on the route.

pemma · 2 Jan 2019

gazzaa2 said:
Whether you use the mean or the mode i'm sure more rail fares have more than doubled than staff salaries have since the mid 90s.

Didn't train drivers once earn around the same as teachers? Teachers also saw above inflation pay increases in the 00s when there was a teacher shortage, before getting the public sector pay freeze under the Tories. Yet the difference is now 5 figure.

Surreytraveller · 2 Jan 2019

hooverboy said:
nothing at all wrong with wanting an RPI pay rise. CPI is a dishonest measure of inflation anyway.

however, it does not have to just come from the farebox.
maintaining the status quo in the way things are operated is ultimately the problem.staff need to multi-skill and be much more flexible,otherwise the grim reaper has no other choice than to automate and cut headcount

If I was management I would be looking for a bonus scheme to be employed which would be payable if certain levels of punctuality and reliability are met(which would not be if strikes were happening), rather than just a straight pay increase.
It needs to be sizeable enough to hurt if not met,but smile if successful ,10-15% of salary is about the benchmark

I might even look at subdividing the lines signed into "teams" so each bears ultimate responsibility for the achievement of the bonus for them and their colleagues on that particular line.
A bit of peer pressure rather than top down diktat is far more effective on an underperforming team member.it is quite a powerful tool to provide kick up the pants if needed (this tactic is well known by teachers and military instructors!)

also with some enhancements for learning new routes and providing cover to them as an when needed.

There would need to be a bit of slack in such an offer to cater for cluster****s like the may timetable changes- which were ultimately network rail/DFT 's fault. Not fair to penalise TOC employees for that, but you get the drift

You couldn't have a bonus scheme, it would be dangerous. It would encourage the cutting of corners and will ultimately kill people.
What would be better would be the proper training of staff so that they are competent

Meole · 2 Jan 2019

Many senior teachers and head teachers earn well in excess of any train driver, i.e. over £100k especially in the semi private academy sector.

LAX54 · 2 Jan 2019

alastair said:
that's definitely not right. if you work a 5 day week and have 5 weeks holiday, over a year that is 47 weeks X 5 which makes 235 days. £6428 divided by 235 is £27.35 a day (unless they mean the £13.85 is each way?)

This is what I saw: https://www.greateranglia.co.uk/tickets-fares/season-tickets/season-ticket-calculator

Colchester or Colchester Town to London Travelcard Zones 1-6
Available Standard Class Adult Season Tickets (Travel is allowed via any permitted route.)

Days/Months Price Average journey price*
7 Days £160.70 £16.07
1 Month £617.10 -
3 Months £1,851.30 -
6 Months £3,702.60 -
12 Months £6,428.00 £13.85

* Average journey prices have been calculated based upon two daily journeys (i.e. an outward and return journey) with an allowance for annual leave. For more information see this page.

WatcherZero · 2 Jan 2019

Mag_seven said:
The government could easily help people out by abolishing the RPI+X fare increase every year. They have frozen fuel duty, so why not rail fares?

Main reason they froze fuel duties was because the price of oil rose, 65% of the pump price at present is tax and it peaked in 2008 at 72.53% as the world economy tanked and oil hit post oil crisis lows, since then its steadily risen again. As the price of oil rises the percentage that is tax falls but the revenue to government rises and until about 2015 when it fell back a bit and has been more volatile since, the simple market rises more than made up for the loss in duty from freezing the escalator.

WatcherZero · 2 Jan 2019

gazzaa2 said:
So in the 25 years since privatisation has the average wage on the railway gone up by the same percentage of the average ticket?

The wage bill has risen by twice the rate of inflation and it escaped the public (and most private sector) pay freezes which it would have been subject to if still nationalised.
The railway directly employs as of 2017 120,000 with 250,000 more in the rail supply chain, 42,000 non railway staff employed (e.g station retail) for a total of 600,000.

At privatisation 47,000 were employed by Tocs, 40,000 in BR services (operational) and 20,000 by Railtrack (engineering) and 22,000 in the rail engineering supply chain (former BR engineering subsidiaries, nothing much was being built at the time). The irony is the unions were warning of 20-30,000 job cuts would follow in the years immediately after privatisation (based on an Oxford estimate of 30% efficiency savings available with the majority to be in the signalling and trackside maintenance). So the reality is despite the warnings of massive cuts in headcount there are 10-15% more people directly employed on the railway today than at privatisation.

whoosh · 2 Jan 2019

Any replies to "How much has the average wage risen?" will likely not mention or detail the significant changes to terms and conditions or productivity gains that came with those rises.
(For example: LNER drivers being TWICE as productive as before privatisation being one of them.)

Chris Grayling blames unions for rail fare hike

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