Revenue collection - have LNER given up?

davmet · 16 Dec 2018

Chrism20 said:
Great northern tickets aren’t valid on LNER so it’s a full new ticket going by what she said to them.

The excess she quoted was the difference between whatever standard ticket the passengers had to whatever 1st class ticket that was applicable. She explained it to them and they didn’t seem phased at paying it.

Great northern?

RailUK Forums

Esker-pades · 16 Dec 2018

davmet said:
Great northern?

Great Northern run suburban services from Kings Cross and Moorgate up the ECML to Hertford North, Welwyn, Peterborough, Cambridge and Kings Lynn. They are part of the Thameslink Southern and Great Northern franchise.

The tickets being referred to are marked "Thameslink & Great Northern Only" which means people with those tickets can only use Thameslink and Great Northern services between their origin and destination. Therefore, they cannot travel on LNER (London NorthEastern Railway) services.

sefton · 16 Dec 2018

Kite159 said:
In theory they should check everybody because it is all too easy for a dodger to remain silent when the guard walks through asking for "tickets from X", and unless the guard has a good memory "hang on that pair of seats were empty beforehand" they can get away with it

MCSHF007 said:
In a nutshell. None of these common thieves are likely to identify themselves.

So the result is the dishonest get away with it, and the honest errors (such as the Great Northern tickets) are picked up.

I suppose it makes life easier for the guards not having to deal with the evaders who are likely to give them a hard time, but means they earn some nice commission from those who will pay without making much fuss.

Can't see it really delivers for the train company though.

Esker-pades · 16 Dec 2018

sefton said:
So the result is the dishonest get away with it, and the honest errors (such as the Great Northern tickets) are picked up.

I suppose it makes life easier for the guards not having to deal with the evaders who are likely to give them a hard time, but means they earn some nice commission from those who will pay without making much fuss.

Can't see it really delivers for the train company though.

Except not, because the guard in that situation was checking all tickets (the train had started from Kings Cross so nobody could have boarded before). Also, we don't know if it was an honest mistake. They could be part of the pay-if-challenged brigade.

sefton · 17 Dec 2018

FelixtheCat said:
Also, we don't know if it was an honest mistake. They could be part of the pay-if-challenged brigade.

Of course it was. If you don't want to pay you don't buy the wrong ticket covering the whole journey but do something which costs far less.

99.99999999% of cases like this will occur because train ticketing is rubbish.

leo knight · 9 Jan 2019

Bantamzen said:
Last week there was a revenue check on one of the 06:30 Bradford FS - London KX services between Shipley & Leeds. So I don't think they've totally given up, perhaps just different guards with different routines?

Also I travel 0655 train regularly between Skipton and leeds/kx on a First class ticket and never checked between Skipton and leeds.

island · 9 Jan 2019

mark-h said:
Are there any incentives (commission/bonus etc.) to sell tickets onboard?

Guards get commission, 5% or so.

xotGD · 9 Jan 2019

leo knight said:
Also I travel 0655 train regularly between Skipton and leeds/kx on a First class ticket and never checked between Skipton and leeds.

I used that service 2 or 3 days each week for 2 years between Skipton and Leeds and had my ticket checked exactly once. However, with barriers at Leeds, what is the point?

Kite159 · 9 Jan 2019

xotGD said:
I used that service 2 or 3 days each week for 2 years between Skipton and Leeds and had my ticket checked exactly once. However, with barriers at Leeds, what is the point?

Because the barriers won't tell if someone is using a ticket from say Cottingley on that train

leo knight · 9 Jan 2019

xotGD said:
I used that service 2 or 3 days each week for 2 years between Skipton and Leeds and had my ticket checked exactly once. However, with barriers at Leeds, what is the point?

But mainly I should of pointed out that someone could be travelling first class on a standard ticket which could mean loss of revenue.

johntea · 9 Jan 2019

I don't think LNER will be too bothered about a few people travelling from Skipton to Leeds without a ticket either in Standard or First to be honest! Far bigger fish to fry...

Kite159 · 10 Jan 2019

johntea said:
I don't think LNER will be too bothered about a few people travelling from Skipton to Leeds without a ticket either in Standard or First to be honest! Far bigger fish to fry...

I would imagine under ORCATS the revenue LNER receive for Skipton - Leeds tickets (likewise for Bradford - Leeds) will be low as they only run a token daily service

talltim · 10 Jan 2019

cactustwirly said:
Well on EMT a ticket check is common between London & Leicester, but rare north of Leicester

Dunno, I get mine checked pretty much every time between Chesterfield and Sheffield (and vice versa)

xotGD · 10 Jan 2019

Kite159 said:
Because the barriers won't tell if someone is using a ticket from say Cottingley on that train

There are also barriers at Skipton (and Keighley?), so that restricts it to the Shipleyites. Worth dodging on the difference between a Shipley - Leeds and a Cottingley - Leeds?

Kite159 · 10 Jan 2019

xotGD said:
There are also barriers at Skipton (and Keighley?), so that restricts it to the Shipleyites. Worth dodging on the difference between a Shipley - Leeds and a Cottingley - Leeds?

Are the barriers at Skipton in operation that early in the morning/late at night when the token service operates?

I don't think Keighley has barriers

JetStream · 10 Jan 2019

Based on my own experiences, guards are very different in their attitudes, but the most common thing I've seen is "tickets from x (and y dependent on distance)".

Also, I've never seen any guard come through between Stockport and Manchester (as an example), mainly because I'd imagine they're unlikely to be able to do the full train in that time, and because Piccadilly has barriers/people on the gates the majority of the day.

Thing is, even if stations are gated, surely checking tickets is worthwhile, if for no other reason than to make sure people are on the correct train?

xotGD · 10 Jan 2019

Kite159 said:
Are the barriers at Skipton in operation that early in the morning/late at night when the token service operates?

I don't think Keighley has barriers

Yes, the Skipton barriers are staffed in the morning and (if I remember correctly) at night. Loadings on the evening service are of course much lighter than the morning service, as it is well after the peak commuter flow home from Leeds.

johntea · 10 Jan 2019

It is quite fascinating how early / late Northern staff their barriers, I don't think I've ever just walked through open barriers at stations such as Bradford Forster Square or Harrogate, but generally find LNER station Wakefield Westgate or TPE station Huddersfield wide open by the early evening shortly after rush hour!

northernchris · 10 Jan 2019

johntea said:
It is quite fascinating how early / late Northern staff their barriers, I don't think I've ever just walked through open barriers at stations such as Bradford Forster Square or Harrogate, but generally find LNER station Wakefield Westgate or TPE station Huddersfield wide open by the early evening shortly after rush hour!

I don't know why they bother with the barriers at Wakefield! Very rarely open and when they are they don't accept MCards

Revenue collection - have LNER given up?

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