-
Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
Lack of VTWC first class lounge at Preston
- Thread starter route101
- Start date
- Status
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
trainophile
Established Member
Or Carlisle.
How much business travelling is there from or to Carlisle, I suspect not enough to warrant a lounge.
Sam
trainophile
Established Member
It's not only business travellers who appreciate the delights of a Lounge!
Lounge provision is likely to be fairly costly, and although I think it's an excellent idea they seem to be turning away from it.
Stoke-on-Trent and Wolverhampton have already closed down permanently. It's rumoured Runcorn is next. How many ticket sales have they lost as a result? If a few people didn't buy a £60 First Advance, or traded down to a £40 Standard Advance because of it, they are probably not bothered!
They were doing a survey in Manchester Piccadilly in October, and I made sure to tell them there that the First Class lounge did have an influence on my decision to buy a First Class ticket vs a Standard one.
As far as Carlisle itself goes there is relatively little demand from there at all.
Last edited:
ScotTrains
Member
Virgin invested money opening a new lounge in Glasgow just a few years ago and have already refurbished and enlarged it due to demand. Other operators have also opened new lounges recently too: TPEx, GC, CS etc.
Traveling from Glasgow I regularly have to change train at Carlisle to board an Edinburgh service. Likewise, people traveling from Edinburgh may have to change at Carlisle to board one of the Glasgow services, depending on their destination. With all the local lines there too there is often a good number of first class travellers changing at Carlisle.
Preston is also in need of a Lounge. Most people traveling with Virgin from Scotland to Liverpool or Manchester will change at Preston. There is often plenty of 1st class passengers alighting/disembarking at Preston.
Over on the East Coast it surprises me that York has no lounge, even though small stations like Berwick do.
Manchester itself is due for a refurbishment soon, from what I last heard it would be February.
Sam
GRALISTAIR
Established Member
Of all the suggestions Preston would probably make the most sense imho
Speaking of stations without first class lounges the one I can never comprehend is York.
Indeed!
Indeed!
47271
Established Member
- Joined
- 28 Apr 2015
- Messages
- 2,983
What would be most helpful to the passenger is cooperation between operating companies to provide a lounge service for all First Class passengers at a station, thereby spreading the cost of fitouts and staffing. We might then have a better chance of stations like Preston and York having facilities.
Edinburgh particularly irritates me now that they won't let Virgin passengers use it, and it would be extremely useful if I could get in with a Transpennine First Class ticket.
We've also got those Caledonian Sleeper lounges popping up all over the place and only used for an hour or so a day. Come on guys, can the railway get a bit more joined up please?
Anyway, if you travel regularly enough you can always get to know very comfortable alternatives within a couple of minutes walk of a station. It might cost you the price of a cup of coffee to use them, but first world problems and all that...
Totally on topic, there's not much wrong with the station buffet at Preston, many a time I've been perfectly happy waiting there for half an hour or so with a First Class ticket in my hand.
Edinburgh particularly irritates me now that they won't let Virgin passengers use it, and it would be extremely useful if I could get in with a Transpennine First Class ticket.
We've also got those Caledonian Sleeper lounges popping up all over the place and only used for an hour or so a day. Come on guys, can the railway get a bit more joined up please?
Anyway, if you travel regularly enough you can always get to know very comfortable alternatives within a couple of minutes walk of a station. It might cost you the price of a cup of coffee to use them, but first world problems and all that...
Totally on topic, there's not much wrong with the station buffet at Preston, many a time I've been perfectly happy waiting there for half an hour or so with a First Class ticket in my hand.
Glasgow is a much bigger city than Carlisle though so they will have much more custom for 1st class pax than Carlisle and as such provide that service.
Preston really should have one though - that cafe/bar on 3/4 is no decent place to wait
Muenchener
Member
- Joined
- 31 May 2018
- Messages
- 142
Some years back I raised the issue direct with Virgin, w.r.t the lack of a lounge in Preston, through their complaint/suggestion scheme and got a response of absolutely zilch!
Now I'm just as likely to route thru Piccadilly and use the lounge there.
Now I'm just as likely to route thru Piccadilly and use the lounge there.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Agreed, that would be my place of choice to wait if having to wait a while there. OK, a pint isn't free, but if you're travelling 1st (be that out of your own pocket or out of your employer's) most likely you can afford four quid or so.
Iskra
Established Member
I asked a couple of years ago and they said they had no plans for a lounge.
47271
Established Member
- Joined
- 28 Apr 2015
- Messages
- 2,983
I know that it's about to be refurbished, but is it really worth going out of your way to use that place, a dozen stained sofas and an unreliable coffee machine? At a push I think I'd rather pay for a coffee at Preston!
Muenchener
Member
- Joined
- 31 May 2018
- Messages
- 142
I'm not a regular traveller anymore and no reason to travel for business (retired) but there was a time when the cost differential between Preston or Piccadilly meant it was an option. On return from Euston I'd probably return via Preston.
I live at the top end of the Bolton corridor which makes it an option to go either way.
My 1st class travel is now self-funded so time isn't the driver but costs probably will be.
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
Lime St now has a newly-sited 1st class VT lounge, where the old White Star pub used to be.
It replaced the previous temporary lounges.
That's for 1tph.
Preston, to my mind, is a much busier VT location, and unlike Lime St it is full of interchanging passengers with time to kill.
It replaced the previous temporary lounges.
That's for 1tph.
Preston, to my mind, is a much busier VT location, and unlike Lime St it is full of interchanging passengers with time to kill.
The Upper Crust/bar place on P3/4 is OK when it's quiet, but it can get insanely busy in there.
Crewe has a VT lounge, but in my view is much less busy than Preston these days.Yes but where do you put it? LNER use platforms 3, 5, 7, 9 and 10 so putting it over between 7 and 9 would not be good for many London bound services. The old signal box now Costa is the most obvious location but has no disabled access provision, plus I'd expect NR receive more in rent from Costa than LNER would pay for it as a lounge.
I'd suspect the reason Preston lacks a lounge is also no obvious location within the station confines.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
There are all sorts of storage rooms and the likes in the buildings on platform 3 and 4. There was even a Burger King in there at one point. There would easily be space for a smallish lounge.
Alternatively, when they built the pig-ugly carbuncle on the side at the car park end they could have made it a bit bigger, potentially. Perhaps an upstairs (with lift, obviously).
I can only assume that they don't really want to provide any more staff for a lounge, or the cost of the stock. To me the latter seems a bit miserly - the wine and spirits they're dishing out onboard the trains must dwarf the operating cost of a coffee machine, a fridge of cold drinks, a small box of biscuits and a contract cleaner to pop in every once in a while. The lounge at Wolverhampton was always unstaffed and that was fine.
Against that I would have thought it both drives demand towards First for leisure passengers, and sends a message to First Anytime customers that as those paying the most, their needs are considered, even if few of them use the lounge. For whatever reason the calculation does not seem to come off. CrossCountry for example do not have any interest at all in arranging access to First Class lounges for their customers.
I don't really get why people think of York as a major locale for First Class travellers, vs say Reading.
Against that I would have thought it both drives demand towards First for leisure passengers, and sends a message to First Anytime customers that as those paying the most, their needs are considered, even if few of them use the lounge. For whatever reason the calculation does not seem to come off. CrossCountry for example do not have any interest at all in arranging access to First Class lounges for their customers.
I don't really get why people think of York as a major locale for First Class travellers, vs say Reading.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
The demand profile is a bit different. York is primarily an InterCity station with people making long distance journeys, while most people using Reading are commuting to London. There is certainly significant IC demand to points west, but proportionally it is quite small compared with the London demand.
I think this is a bit of a thing that enthusiasts think, and bears out relatively little in the truth. The insistence on stopping at Reading comes more from the perspective of long-distance passengers who travel from or via Reading than Reading <> London.
I cannot imagine many of the First Class passengers changing at or starting at Reading are London commuters either, given the price.
York is much smaller, and it's main claims are railway and tourism rather than business related. It probably is used as a railhead by some very affluent people though, which is perhaps the reason some people give it so much attention.
wellhouse
Member
[/QUOTE="pwig, post: 3846295, member: 24314"]The fact York doesn't have one is even more amazing.[/QUOTE]
Assuming the Business Case for First Class Lounges is based on attracting full fare First Class passengers, it does make sense to prioritize provision at stations with a lower service frequency, like Liverpool.
The other question to answer is what do customers expect from a First Class lounge?
Because let's not forget the people who will rape the fridge and snack bar.
I'd have thought in the case of many people, they'd get a "quality" coffee/tea/whatever from a Costa (or other platform cafe) and get on the train - no real waiting... at least not enough to "lounge" around.
Do people really get to the station so early they can make use of a lounge?
Let's assume the answer (in most cases) is "no".
That limits First Class lounges to stations that have long layover times - Birmingham is a good one for people travelling from the East going up to Glasgow as many of the trains miss the direct Glasgow service by 10/15 mins.
This approach then leads to "how long of a wait is required before we build a First Class lounge?"
Which leads back to the first point...
Many people will get off the train, look for somewhere to get a nice cuppa rather than having the First Class watery carp.
Not many First Class lounges provide more than that - especially now the West Coast is scrimping, saving and cutting down on the offering.
Because let's not forget the people who will rape the fridge and snack bar.
I'd have thought in the case of many people, they'd get a "quality" coffee/tea/whatever from a Costa (or other platform cafe) and get on the train - no real waiting... at least not enough to "lounge" around.
Do people really get to the station so early they can make use of a lounge?
Let's assume the answer (in most cases) is "no".
That limits First Class lounges to stations that have long layover times - Birmingham is a good one for people travelling from the East going up to Glasgow as many of the trains miss the direct Glasgow service by 10/15 mins.
This approach then leads to "how long of a wait is required before we build a First Class lounge?"
Which leads back to the first point...
Many people will get off the train, look for somewhere to get a nice cuppa rather than having the First Class watery carp.
Not many First Class lounges provide more than that - especially now the West Coast is scrimping, saving and cutting down on the offering.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
And Preston!
That's actually a good point. There is pretty much always a VTWC train boarding at Manchester Picc, so there is really no case to have one there as if you have a First Anytime ticket you just walk up and board whenever you like. Is there one?
Similar in practice with Euston if you're going to either of those two destinations. It's those going to Liverpool and points north of Crewe who may have 59 minutes to kill if timed badly.
I suspect the upshot is that they'll actually be full of First Advance holders (as VTWC allows them to use it) - which might have the effect of making it more like one of the general (non-airline-specific) airport lounges - pleasant enough, but containing the same mix of people as the station concourse (including families etc) and as such probably not very quiet not conducive to work.
That’s exactly the question I had. I get to the station, wait a few minutes on the platform and get on the train. The only time in the last few years I’ve had to wait a long time at a station (due to poor connections) was at Lichfield TV which is unlikely to get a lounge! Even in times of disruption I’m far more likely to wait outside, so as to be more mobile to get to the right platform.
Hadrian
Member
The size (or population) of an area served by a station is not too much related to the demand for train travel from or to that station. Taking the comparison between Glasgow and Carlisle: it is not uncommon for more passengers to join a southbound West Coast train at Carlisle than boarded at Glasgow. Equally the number alighting at Carlisle on a northbound train at some times of day can be larger than the number remaining to travel onwards. The same is true for first class passengers.
I assume that this is related to the wide choice of alternative air routes from/to Glasgow (compared to the hike to/from either Newcastle or Manchester airports from Carlisle). So train from/to Carlisle probably has a much larger market share within its catchment than Glasgow.
The basis for deciding whether provision of a first class lounge at a station is commercially viable has to take account of this as well as the factors that other posters have outlined.
I assume that this is related to the wide choice of alternative air routes from/to Glasgow (compared to the hike to/from either Newcastle or Manchester airports from Carlisle). So train from/to Carlisle probably has a much larger market share within its catchment than Glasgow.
The basis for deciding whether provision of a first class lounge at a station is commercially viable has to take account of this as well as the factors that other posters have outlined.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
One thing I noticed this weekend was the very large number of people boarding the train to Carlisle at Newcastle with suitcases, all of whom went all the way to Carlisle. As Carlisle is not a big destination for business travel they were clearly going somewhere else, though I didn't pay a lot of attention to where, and stag dos aside Newcastle is hardly a prime winter holiday destination (though it was warmer there this weekend than down South!). Could VTWC's much lower walk-up fares than LNER's be driving this, or perhaps avoidance of TPE overcrowding?
This of course, with both services being basically hourly (1.5tph to Glasgow, 0.5tph to Edinburgh plus the nasty, overcrowded TPEs) could drive demand for a lounge at Carlisle far more than for one at Manc Picc.
This of course, with both services being basically hourly (1.5tph to Glasgow, 0.5tph to Edinburgh plus the nasty, overcrowded TPEs) could drive demand for a lounge at Carlisle far more than for one at Manc Picc.
- Status