Latest time I can leave Hatch End / Hainault so not to miss my booked train at Paddington?

Tomorrow I've booked a train leaving London Paddington at 21.48. This is in fact the last train of the day that will get me back to my home station (Worcester Shrub Hill).

Before that, I'll be buying a one-day Travelcard which I'll be using to visit both Hatch End and also Hainault, one place in the morning, and the other place later in the day, it doesn't matter in which order I visit.

What's the latest I can leave Hatch End railway station , that along with the changes involved, will get me back in time to Paddington to get the 21.48 train?

What's the latest I can leave Hainault underground station, that along with the changes involved, will get me back in time to Paddington to get the 21.48 train?

So I can work out which place to visit first, would it be be best heading to Paddington at the end of the day from Hainault or from Hatch End?

Obviously I'll allow at least the minimum time to get back to Paddington, but what if there's a problem with the trains and/or tube, and I miss my train at 21.48?

Given the fact that I'm travelling with a Travelcard, does the same thing apply with using normal train tickets, namely in the event there's a problem and I miss my booked train at Paddington, I won't be stranded? (Providing I allow ample time for the connections).

Say I aim for the last sensible service from Hatch End or Hainault (allowing at least the standard minimum connection time) and there's a problem with the tube or trains and I arrive at Paddington at 21.50. Would GWR accept that London Underground / London Overground were at fault (or accept I used a Travelcard), and honour my ticket home on the 21.48 train?

If that's the case, exactly how would they get me back to Worcester?

2052 from hatch end: http://www.fastjp.com/#journeys?ori...::&odate=20190225&otime=2020&maxres=1&maxch=6

Hainault isn't a national rail station, so it's unclear of there is any automatic entitlement to onward travel. If you have travel insurance, ask them. If not, you could ask LU/GWR for their advice.

yorkie said:

2052 from hatch end: http://www.fastjp.com/#journeys?ori...::&odate=20190225&otime=2020&maxres=1&maxch=6

Hainault isn't a national rail station, so it's unclear of there is any automatic entitlement to onward travel. If you have travel insurance, ask them. If not, you could ask LU/GWR for their advice.

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Thanks. I was thinking the same, leave from Hatch End as it's a National Rail Station. So say I leave on the 20.52 train from Hatch End. Does it mean that either if that train is cancelled or very late, I'll be covered if I arrive into Paddington late and miss my booked train? What if the train is on time but there's a problem on the Bakerloo line and I arrive late, does the same thing apply? Also, does it make a difference that I'm using a Travelcard?

Providing you make it in time for the 20:52 train, you are covered in the event of delays.

A paper ticket can be less hassle than using Oyster/Contactless.

Details are in the Advance Fare FAQ, available at https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...1-ticket-types-conditions.70018/#post-1179550

If you are worried, you could bring an itinerary showing your intended route (though there is no obligation to do this, it may be useful in the unlikely event of a dispute).

yorkie said:

Providing you make it in time for the 20:52 train, you are covered in the event of delays.

A paper ticket can be less hassle than using Oyster/Contactless.

Details are in the Advance Fare FAQ, available at https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...1-ticket-types-conditions.70018/#post-1179550

If you are worried, you could bring an itinerary showing your intended route (though there is no obligation to do this, it may be useful in the unlikely event of a dispute).

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Three hours on a replacement bus at 2 in the morning? That is some journey.

alistairlees said:

Three hours on a replacement bus at 2 in the morning? That is some journey.

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I got an absolute bargain price (£6), so I decided to go for it!

Paddington is a short walk to Lancaster Gate station for the Central line. Should be easier than changing in zone 1

If you missed it and got the 2218 to Oxford, the taxi would only need to go a few stations to intercept the replacement bus.

A train an hour later from Oxford would see the taxi intercept the bus around Evesham, while a 90 minute delay would still see on a taxi all the way into Worcester, but arriving before the bus.

All that assumes the taxi departs promptly from Oxford, though.

So it would actually be difficult to be delayed into Worcester.

If I was in this situation, I'd make sure I got the first available train from Paddington, but I would use any time between arriving at Paddington and departing on the next train to talk to GWR staff at Paddington. If I arrived just before the train, I'd first try tweeting or calling them.

What I would definitely not do is either miss a train at Paddington (this would add additional delay) or wait until Oxford before mentioning the issue to GWR.

yorkie said:

If you missed it and got the 2218 to Oxford, the taxi would only need to go a few stations to intercept the replacement bus.

A train an hour later from Oxford would see the taxi intercept the bus around Evesham, while a 90 minute delay would still see on a taxi all the way into Worcester, but arriving before the bus.

All that assumes the taxi departs promptly from Oxford, though.

So it would actually be difficult to be delayed into Worcester.

If I was in this situation, I'd make sure I got the first available train from Paddington, but I would use any time between arriving at Paddington and departing on the next train to talk to GWR staff at Paddington. If I arrived just before the train, I'd first try tweeting or calling them.

What I would definitely not do is either miss a train at Paddington (this would add additional delay) or wait until Oxford before mentioning the issue to GWR.

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Thanks for working all that out for me.

I was just wondering - in a scenario where that particular Hatch End train were late / cancelled, could it be proven that I had actually been on that train? (I could have been elsewhere on my Travelcard, missed my booked train at Paddington due to my own fault, seen that Hatch End train was late, and say I was on it).

jednick said:

Thanks for working all that out for me.

I was just wondering - in a scenario where that particular Hatch End train were late / cancelled, could it be proven that I had actually been on that train? (I could have been elsewhere on my Travelcard, missed my book train at Paddington due to my own fault, seen that Hatch End train was late, and say I was on it).

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Ultimately if you were to take it to Court they might raise that as a defence - but then they are, ultimately, accusing you of fraud. That would not normally be done unless there were strong evidence that it's the case.

ForTheLoveOf said:

Ultim. ately if you were to take it to Court they might raise that as a defence - but then they are, ultimately, accusing you of fraud. That would not normally be done unless there were strong evidence that it's the case.

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Thanks for the info. I'm wondering - does the Travelcard's magnetic strip (on the back) record info such as the time I insert it through Hatch End's ticket gates (If it has ticket gates at that station)?

What evidence might they have against you?

The burden of proof is not on you, but if you acted suspiciously they may look at any evidence, however ...

jednick said:

Thanks for the info. I'm wondering - does the Travelcard's magnetic strip (on the back) record info such as the time I insert it through Hatch End's ticket gates (If it has ticket gates at that station)?

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...I believe it may only store the last location, which would be Paddington.

Does Hatch End have ticket gates these days? It's been a while since I last used that station, but I don't think it does.

If you produced a valid ticket for the journey, an itinerary for the journey, and they looked the train up and found it was cancelled/delayed, there would have to be some strong evidence against you to not believe you.

yorkie said:

What evidence might they have against you?

The burden of proof is not on you, but if you acted suspiciously they may look at any evidence, however ...

...I believe it may only store the last location, which would be Paddington.

Does Hatch End have ticket gates these days? It's been a while since I last used that station, but I don't think it does.

If you produced a valid ticket for the journey, an itinerary for the journey, and they looked the train up and found it was cancelled/delayed, there would have to be some strong evidence against you to not believe you.

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I suppose I'm thinking of worst-case scenarios which seldom happen.

I bought the £6 Paddington to Worcester ticket (with the replacement bus from Oxford) a few months ago also, with no problems. There was just one other person who went all the way from Oxford to Worcester on the replacement bus, plus another person who got on at Evesham.

The trains from Hatch End to Queens Park leave Hatch End at --12, --32 and --52. If it were me, I'd set out to get the 20:12 as a matter of sensible planning to cater for all but the most unlikely eventualities.