kevin_roche
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How slow will the 345s be? They are not tube stock. They will do 90mph outside the tunnels and I'm told the acceleration and braking are quick.
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Crossrail opening delayed (opening date not yet known)
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How slow will the 345s be? They are not tube stock. They will do 90mph outside the tunnels and I'm told the acceleration and braking are quick.
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matt_world2004
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It's going to be 6tph when the service is fully operational.
samuelmorris
Established Member
I assume the 'really slow' comment comes from it being a stopping service, rather than the performance of the stock. The acceleration of the 345s is pretty much second to none at around 30 to 35s 0-60.
cactustwirly
Established Member
1 hour, instead of 45 minutes today...
We're going from comfortable stock with, luggage racks, and proper seats, to what is basically a tube train!
kevin_roche
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OK the luggage facility will be worse but the trains are supposed to be faster. The crossrail website has Paddington to Twyford takes 44 mins and Padding to Maidenhead at 35 Minutes. Is that wrong?
cactustwirly
Established Member
The current 387s take an hour when they do all stops, those times seem very optimistic, the peak time fast services do Paddington - Maidenhead in about 25 minutes (110mph non stop on the fast lines)
You are presumably ignoring the new timetable from December with much fast Journey timings that currently. The current timing assume a 165 could be substituted if needed still.
No, Correct.
Wivenswold
Established Member
Widespread indignation or the mutterings of the few on the platform?
You're right about the people who can sprint around platforms and Underground stations, tapping their watches when realising it's a whole 2 minutes for the next train, rushing down the street cup of skinny latte in one hand , trailing a business suitcase on wheels behind him, phone under ear shouting "Look I'll be there in 5". Yes those people will be unimpressed with a slower service.
But for the elderly, the disabled, the cautious traveller, patient people, people who don't like steep escalators or get lost easily or just people who are pleased they don't have to change at Paddington, then they will be delighted with the new service. I know that because I fit into one of those categories. We're not all you.
Given a while of being battered by London yoof, daily intense commuting and a lack of toilets and seats, I think they may end up being reliable, but not endearing or pleasant to be on. They are somewhat rudimentary for the twenty first century for longer trips.
Cross rail itself remains too slow. It does not seem to save time (from what I have read) but is direct into London...... in the mornings and evenings it is going to be chocka. Let’s hope it at least hasn’t decent AC and that the infrastructure holds up.... being stood staring at suburban West London or in a tunnel for a while is going to be unpleasant.
Cross rail itself remains too slow. It does not seem to save time (from what I have read) but is direct into London...... in the mornings and evenings it is going to be chocka. Let’s hope it at least hasn’t decent AC and that the infrastructure holds up.... being stood staring at suburban West London or in a tunnel for a while is going to be unpleasant.
cactustwirly
Established Member
I think that Crossrail is a good idea in principle, but very poorly executed, mainly in the rolling stock department.
Having used the Munich and Vienna S bahn systems, they are really good methods of transport, however the rolling stock is much better than Crossrail, with 2+2 transverse seating and luggage space, making them suitable for the longer journeys
swt_passenger
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Has decent AC surely?
Autocorrect strikes again maybe?samuelmorris
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345s do have some 2+2 seating, just not very much. I actually think what they've done is quite a clever compromise given how crowded the service will ultimately become.
As for the slower services to Maidenhead, even Crossrail services calling there are semi-fast closer to London are they not?
cactustwirly
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swt_passenger
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It’s interesting that if you were to go back ten years or so how many people, including a number of politicians on the route, were apparently so desperate to get Crossrail extended to Reading. The details of the metro stock and stopping patterns were pretty much foreseeable, but IMHO possibly drowned out by the extension supporters.
“Be careful what you wish for” is the obvious phrase that comes to mind...
“Be careful what you wish for” is the obvious phrase that comes to mind...
coppercapped
Established Member
What are you going on about? Those are the original 'Bugelbrett' (Ironing board) seats...they got an appalling press in Germany.A few, but not nearly enough!
Compare it to this!
cactustwirly
Established Member
I know, I was saying that that's a far more suitable seating layout! Having been on a BR423 in real life, it's far more preferable than a 345!
tsr
Established Member
That looks like an exercise in how not to design a train interior, to be honest. Those seats look worse than any ironing board we have in this country, and who on earth decided to put route maps on the ceiling? Also no luggage racks to speak of.
(And probably the most tedious colour scheme ever.)
class387
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423s are pretty unpleasant to travel on regardless of whether you stand or sit to be honest - far worse than a 700.A few, but not nearly enough!
Compare it to this!
I find the Vienna S-Bahn Desiros quite odd to be honest with their tables armrests and footrests. They're nice (window alignment aside), but I would not say they are suitable for a high frequency metro service. On paper they are to the same spec as the Railjet!
yep. Sorry. Experience of summers sweltering on 455s and struggling all the way to the Cotswolds on a Friday afternoon turbo that is loaded like it’s going to the cricket in India ... they need decent AC. That actually works properly and reliably.Has decent AC surely?
samuelmorris
Established Member
Now imagine 170 people per vehicle with that layout . That's how many the 345s are designed to and will take.A few, but not nearly enough!
Compare it to this!
Exactly - And with 15+cm narrower body shells
The headline Crossrail journey times are for the final, completed service; not the new (previously unplanned) interim service to Paddington HL. Journey times and stopping patterns are likely to change again once the full service is introduced. There has been some speculation to what that will look like; but nothing concrete yet.
silverfoxcc
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Concorde,Hovercraft,165? all taken out of service without a suitable replacement ( first two slower travel times, 345.. no toilets for a longer run) Can they be retro fitted when Crossrail get fed up with the Fri/Sat night cleaning bill?
samuelmorris
Established Member
It's certainly possible but it's about as likely as toilets being retrofitted to the tube.
MarlowDonkey
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It's not going to be that slow, as presumably the 345s can accelerate to the 90 ? mph relief line speed before braking for the next stop. Will they time the Branch connections for the semi-fasts though?
EssexGonzo
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On that point at least, your mind can be put to rest. The 345 AC is excellent, experienced as a passenger many times over the last year to 18 months. Especially compared to the latest refurbished GA 321 stock, but that could just be GA running it at a higher temp.
On a seriously hot day, I have once or twice chosen the cooler stopping 345 to Shenfield rather than taken the faster, sweaty 321.
samuelmorris
Established Member
I have done exactly that on numerous occasions. The Renatus A/C is very hit and miss, compared to a 'proper' modern unit's A/C like, say, an Electrostar, I'm not sure the 345's is any better (it's certainly noisier!) but it's certainly good enough.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47967766
Looks terrible. Honestly I'd be surprised if this is finished in 2022. It's really turning into London's version Berlin Brandenburg Airport at this point...
Looks terrible. Honestly I'd be surprised if this is finished in 2022. It's really turning into London's version Berlin Brandenburg Airport at this point...
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