Indeed. If I'd booked a hotel room only to be told I couldn't get into my room until after midnight, I'd be expecting a full refund and alternative accommodation. I'd love to see CS try to defend a Consumer Rights Act claim over the non-availability of a customer's paid for, and really quite expensive, 'hotel room'.
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Caledonian Sleeper
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Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
That's a very good point. If they are going after a market like the Ghan (for example) or the Orient Express (not the erstwhile SNCF operated EuroNight version) they really need the service to go with it, not the service that might go with a budget operation like Thello, say.
That's certainly a good point and shows why Delay Repay isn't appropriate for the Sleepers. Arriving on time doesn't make up for only getting into your "room" significantly later than advertised.
Perhaps the franchise agreement should have had conditions on boarding times e.g. within 30 minutes of the advertised time: no penalty; 30-60: 50% refund, or 100% and no travel; 60+ 100% refund, travel or otherwise (figures for illustrative purposes only).
33Hz
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You only have to look at their answers on Twitter each morning to see that they are far from ready for the prime time https://twitter.com/CalSleeper/with_replies
https://twitter.com/chrisph69/status/1125637788546809856
It's all the kind of stuff that should have been ironed out in the year delay to the original launch date. Not helped by whoever thought they would pull things forward a month and put up with bank holiday blockades in the first week.
https://twitter.com/chrisph69/status/1125637788546809856
https://twitter.com/HowardTizz/status/1125715135782375424
https://twitter.com/james40255531/status/1125671755085955072
It's all the kind of stuff that should have been ironed out in the year delay to the original launch date. Not helped by whoever thought they would pull things forward a month and put up with bank holiday blockades in the first week.
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Wow quite a few unhappy customers.
In one of today's replies they link to their compensation charter, the measly £5 compensation for significant things like "no running water" is terrible when you compare it to proper hotel chains like Premier Inn who will happily refund your entire night if you give them a genuine reason to (in which case they refund without quibble, I've experienced it).
modernrail
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What is the problem at the depot in getting these trains out on time I wonder? It is a shambles. You cannot invite people to arrive at 10pm to board their accommodation 2.5 hours later. That is the time a train takes to get us if way up the WCML or to Leeds. The train has been in the depot for hours before it needs to leave for Euston. At the very, very least they should be doing a deal with Virgin to keep the first class lounge open for ALL passengers that want to use it after 10pm. However, if they can't get the bloody train into the platform for 10pm pretty much every night, stop saying you can and damn well tell people why you are failing to get this basic thing right. Regulars and newbies alike are rightly completely ticked off.
leightonbd
Member
Staff were rolling their eyes this morning and saying the stock should never have been rushed in - far too many teething problems. It looks lovely though ...
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I've had it too - the reasons were relatively minor[1] (though did affect my sleep, so the claim was entirely genuine), and they did cough up as they said they would. CS would do well to take note.
[1] Mainly incredibly noisy aircon, which due to their silly (and environmentally unfriendly) policy of new hotels having sealed windows meant it was unbearably hot if I switched it off. I wouldn't expect to have the same type of claim approved again, but I will just be avoiding those newer hotels anyway as I can't stand aircon - I sleep at home with the window open all year round and wish to do that in a hotel too.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
So I guess they, as predicted, made a massive error in retiring a load of Mk3s rather than giving them the overhaul they were due, as that gave them no option but to get the new stock in service.
That said, if they have got all of it now, there's no real excuse for failures - they could have standby sets at both ends of both Mk3 and Mk5 stock.
Highlandspring
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As predicted by whom? You’ve written off a £100 million project based on a secondhand internet rumour of staff rolling their eyes? In any case the mk3s that were scrapped weren’t due “an overhaul” as you say but did require very expensive heavy maintenance of the kind that wouldn’t be noticeable to passengers at all. The CS franchise bid was based on a new fleet which they’re now under a lot of pressure to deliver and they don’t have money to waste on keeping a large pool of obsolete vehicles available just in case.
Sleeper coaches have always been a logistical nightmare for the railway because they require special attention. You can’t just put them in a siding and leave them, if they’re being left for any appreciable length of time you have to remove all the bedding and store it appropriately. While you’re keeping them laid up they have to be kept scrupulously clean and checked for damp regularly. You have to keep them warm and secure otherwise they’ll go damp and mouldy very quickly and there’s a risk rodents or insects (or vagrants..) will move in. Ideally they need to be plugged into an ETH shore supply all the time. The idea of keeping spare sleeper sets on hot standby at Polmadie and Wembley ready to go at a moment’s notice is laughable.
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I had a quiet chuckle at this one. Not sure about now, but it used (First/Serco era) to be a regular occurrence to pass Polmadie and see rakes of Mk3 sleepers with the coach doors left wide open all weekend, regardless of the weather.
On the hotel on wheels aspect, last time I used it (end of 2015), although it was advertised as vacate by 8am & I’d ordered breakfast for 7, the breakfast turned up at 6 & steward was shouting at us to get up & off at 7. Not impressed at being turfed off into a cold London Saturday morning at that time. Ended up sitting in a Costa until I could check into my hotel at 8am. It may well have improved since, certainly, but memories like these & the tweeters above tend to stick
87015
Established Member
Coupling shambles again with the portions at Carstairs, two hours to bang them together.
Highlandspring
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And over half an hour to split them this morning...
WesternLancer
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Q if anyone knows:
I see Highlander has departure at 20.16 sundays later in may (assume this is due to route via NLL and ECML as shown on Real Time trains). Does that mean time to board is any earlier than 20.00 as shown here for suns up to 12 May? I see it arrives in from carriage sidings at 19.05. How soon do they typically let people on?
https://www.sleeper.scot/timetable/london-aberdeen/
I see Highlander has departure at 20.16 sundays later in may (assume this is due to route via NLL and ECML as shown on Real Time trains). Does that mean time to board is any earlier than 20.00 as shown here for suns up to 12 May? I see it arrives in from carriage sidings at 19.05. How soon do they typically let people on?
https://www.sleeper.scot/timetable/london-aberdeen/
BRX
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There's usually a while after the stock arrives, before they let you on. I'd guess they might let you on some time between 1930 and 2000.
Is that to physically split or software issues after split?
theironroad
Established Member
Wouldn't surprise me if it's software ( I don't have inside knowledge of Cs) , as often when some trains like multiple units attach or detach the train management software melts down and won't recognise the new formation or some other issue . Simple mechanical couplings, air pipes and jumpers just need a person to put them together right, not permission from a computer as well
However, due to the substantial PR damage that CS must be getting and possibly a loss of repeat business, I'd have thought that a fitter was in attendance at every split or join or even on board all night. I don't know however.
Additionally, the need to start the depot prep work a couple of hours earlier each evening to make sure they beta RT departure from depots so that people aren't left hanging around on platforms late at night....
I believe they can't start earlier though, in some cases fitters (from CAF) have been doing repairs from when the stock arrives in the morning till it leaves at night (sometimes delaying the departure as repairs still aren't complete).
Highlandspring
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The issues at Carstairs last night and this morning were with the 61 way jumpers. The problems last week were mostly to do with the Train Management System.
BRX
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I wonder if the Highlander mk5 introduction will get put back if these problems are still going on in a couple of weeks. As others have said, even more complex split/join operations there.
theironroad
Established Member
Wow, they must be having some issues.
Alanko
Member
Is that why it crawled into Platform 11 of Waverley at around 8:00 this morning?
Kite159
Veteran Member
Wouldn't surprise me if it's software ( I don't have inside knowledge of Cs) , as often when some trains like multiple units attach or detach the train management software melts down and won't recognise the new formation or some other issue . Simple mechanical couplings, air pipes and jumpers just need a person to put them together right, not permission from a computer as well
However, due to the substantial PR damage that CS must be getting and possibly a loss of repeat business, I'd have thought that a fitter was in attendance at every split or join or even on board all night. I don't know however.
Additionally, the need to start the depot prep work a couple of hours earlier each evening to make sure they beta RT departure from depots so that people aren't left hanging around on platforms late at night....
Not to mention the lost of revenue from delay repay claims when the trains arrive 30 minutes+ late at the destinations.
jagardner1984
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In terms of Delay Repay, would this be attributed as a TOC issue ? Would CS have some recourse with GBRF, or CAF ?
This could quickly get very pricey, though I suspect the reputational Damage is worse.
This could quickly get very pricey, though I suspect the reputational Damage is worse.
Definitely go down as a CS issue irrespective if CS can pin it onto someone else
Highlandspring
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Yes, it ended up following 2Y56 0616 Glasgow Central - Edinburgh Waverley all stops from Midcalder Junction.