GWR Class 800

83G/84D · 3 Jun 2019

Railperf said:
I watched a 2x5 set uncouple at Plymouth without any issues. One set remained at plymouth while the other carried on to Penzance. Was pretty full in standard class. Interesting the announcements being made (I was in the rear 5 cars) about needing to move to the front 5 coaches at Plymouth.

It would have been helpful for the station display and staff announcements on the platform at stations before Plymouth to direct Penzance passengers to the front 5 coaches in the first place. Nothing indicated this train would split at Plymouth until we were approaching Plymouth.

I travelled yesterday from Reading to Cornwall. Prior to boarding the scrolling displays on platform 7 said that the front 5 carriages were for Cornwall and the rear 5 for stations to Plymouth only.

The train ran non stop to Taunton where I observed the platform displays saying the same. There were repeated on board announcements explaining that the front 5 carriages only were proceeding beyond Plymouth and these clearly audible in the carriage I was in.

On a previous occasion when travelling from Paddington to Cornwall in similar circumstances the large screen displays on the concourse did not indicate the train would split at Plymouth. this caused some consternation amongst some passengers who at Plymouth had to relocate with their luggage to the front 5 carriages. Luckily the detachment takes several minutes so they need not have worried.

I thought it would be displayed at Paddington when a train would divide on route as this is important information especially for infrequent travellers.

RailUK Forums

northernbelle · 3 Jun 2019

Mintona said:
I remember the first time I got a stop order, it was for Severn Tunnel Jn. There’s no need to re-enter a new or generic headcode, it’s easy enough to just select a new station on the TMS. So I stopped at Severn Tunnel Jn, selected the correct station and platform and released the doors. It wasn’t until I arrived at the next station (Bristol Parkway) that I noticed the extra stop had thrown the rest of the route out of the TMS. No headcode, reservations or anything. So I then had to spend around 30-45 seconds at Bristol Parkway re-entering the route headcode, selecting the correct station etc. before being able to release the doors.

The next time I got a stop order (for Keynsham) I was ready for it. I stopped at Keynsham, manually selected the station and platform and released the doors. Whilst passengers were boarding I re-entered the original headcode, and selected my current station as Bristol Temple Meads, so the reservations and PIS were off for around 1 minute and then fired up again announcing ‘the next stop will be Bath Spa’ as intended. Upon arrival at Bath everything was normal again and I was able to release the doors immediately upon stopping.

I would really like to have the ability to add stops to a route, or create my own route. There are times it would be useful.

I was on an IET that stopped additionally at Tiverton Parkway this morning. There were no auto-announcements for the extra stop, but it didn't affect the normal announcements. The PIS effectively ignored Tiverton and then cut back in on the approach to Taunton. The seat reservation indicators were lit throughout.

Grumbler · 3 Jun 2019

Mintona said:
That’s how it works at stations it’s expecting to stop at (ie. the stations listed when the headcode is entered). It’s really not that complicated, it takes just a few seconds now I’ve worked out the best way to do it for other stations.

Why doesn't the system have data for all the stations on the network, not just the stations the train is due to serve?

supervc-10 · 3 Jun 2019

SWT always used to do announcements about splitting for the 159s west of Salisbury, including saying which coach you need to be in for short platforms like Tisbury.

Mintona · 3 Jun 2019

Grumbler said:
Why doesn't the system have data for all the stations on the network, not just the stations the train is due to serve?

It does, that’s why you can stop and select the station to open the correct doors. But the train isn’t expecting to stop at a different station so it takes about three button pushes to make sure it opens only the correct doors.

It’s been a while since I’ve done it, there may have been a software mod that means it no longer throws the route out when opening the doors somewhere unexpected.

Bletchleyite · 3 Jun 2019

Surprised the ASDO doesn't just detect where you are. I guess it's because you have to tell it which platform?

Mintona · 3 Jun 2019

Dai Corner said:
Glad you've worked it out for yourself but shouldn't you have been taught it as part of the course?

I was taught it, but there have been software updates that change things slightly.

Grumbler · 3 Jun 2019

Bletchleyite said:
Surprised the ASDO doesn't just detect where you are. I guess it's because you have to tell it which platform?

Surely with modern electronic gizmos it should be possible for a train to know which platform it's at. If not, just detect that the door is next to the platform and only allow the door to open if it is.

Mintona · 3 Jun 2019

Bletchleyite said:
Surprised the ASDO doesn't just detect where you are. I guess it's because you have to tell it which platform?

I think the different platform lengths don’t help, for example at Didcot I have to select a platform every time I stop to make sure the correct doors are released. Some stations (such as Yatton) are different lengths on the up and down side too which can’t help.

swt_passenger · 3 Jun 2019

Bletchleyite said:
Surprised the ASDO doesn't just detect where you are. I guess it's because you have to tell it which platform?

This is where the various ASDO systems are all different. There’s no one description fits all of them, it sounds as though the GWR & IET system isn’t using track beacons to define the exact platform, if as just described by Mintona the driver has to confirm it...

Railperf · 3 Jun 2019

Mintona said:
I think the different platform lengths don’t help, for example at Didcot I have to select a platform every time I stop to make sure the correct doors are released. Some stations (such as Yatton) are different lengths on the up and down side too which can’t help.

So from a driving perspective..these are proving in some sense to be harder work. Now what used to be a simple job in stopping at another station has extra complication attached with the managing of SDO and having to remember additional procedures to keep the seat reservations on etc. Isn't that something they should be teaching train managers to deal with?
And then during the drive..the TMS is throwing up all sorts of alarms that you didn't get with the older simpler machinery.

43096 · 3 Jun 2019

Dai Corner said:
Glad you've worked it out for yourself but shouldn't you have been taught it as part of the course?

Adding stops into a train’s schedule should be easy to do for the crew - it is pretty basic functionality for something that happens quite frequently. Another example of a poor spec and poor design on them.

Goldfish62 · 3 Jun 2019

Grumbler said:
Surely with modern electronic gizmos it should be possible for a train to know which platform it's at. If not, just detect that the door is next to the platform and only allow the door to open if it is.

The ASDO on the Class 458s works by detecting which doors are on the platform. On the 450s the beacon tells the train which platform it's on and therefore how many doors should be opened.

Seems odd that the 800s don't appear to have either system.

Peter Mugridge · 4 Jun 2019

Railperf said:
1A75 5.05 Penzance to Paddington delayed by almost 2 hours in the Totnes area due to a fault. Does anyone have any more info?

PHILIPE said:
Loss of air

It was 802 103.

Not the only issues today; 800 307 was delayed 5 minutes at Reading from an on-time arrival because the doors would not release at all. Unit was later seen retreating into North Pole, not surprisingly.

There was another one at Reading a couple of hours later, I think an 800/0, where one door refused to close and a fitter had to free it, which also resulted in a five minute delay.

MontyP · 4 Jun 2019

Why are the 800s still running on diesel under the wires so much? Travelling to Bristol yesterday, the unit switched from electric to diesel before it even reached Didcot. I thought the wires were fully live to Swindon now?

JN114 · 4 Jun 2019

MontyP said:
Why are the 800s still running on diesel under the wires so much? Travelling to Bristol yesterday, the unit switched from electric to diesel before it even reached Didcot. I thought the wires were fully live to Swindon now?

They have to go on Diesel under Steventon bridge or suffer the 60mph speed restriction for electrics. It will have switched back to Electric at Wantage Road having passed under the bridge.

It does come up every few pages in this thread.

II · 4 Jun 2019

Railperf said:
So from a driving perspective..these are proving in some sense to be harder work. Now what used to be a simple job in stopping at another station has extra complication attached with the managing of SDO and having to remember additional procedures to keep the seat reservations on etc. Isn't that something they should be teaching train managers to deal with?
And then during the drive..the TMS is throwing up all sorts of alarms that you didn't get with the older simpler machinery.

The Train Managers can also set up the TMS and do things with the seat reservation system and PIS if they wish, though obviously SDO is under full control of the driver as they are the ones that open the doors. The driver has to have the ability to control all elements as there are Driver Only Operated services where they have to do everything. Drivers having to deal with the demands of a TMS is nothing new of course, even on GWR with the 180s. Whilst they do make things a little harder in some regards, they help in others areas such as fault finding or remotely locking a door out of use.

Training on the TMS has been pretty poor IMHO, and some drivers have little interest in it, even some of the TM's don't bother with it - I suspect they are used to the 'old way' of no PIS and manual announcements on the HSTs. I expect that will slowly change over time.

irish_rail · 4 Jun 2019

northernbelle said:
I was on an IET that stopped additionally at Tiverton Parkway this morning. There were no auto-announcements for the extra stop, but it didn't affect the normal announcements. The PIS effectively ignored Tiverton and then cut back in on the approach to Taunton. The seat reservation indicators were lit throughout.

Unfortu lately there is no way of adding stations t

Peter Mugridge said:
It was 802 103.

Not the only issues today; 800 307 was delayed 5 minutes at Reading from an on-time arrival because the doors would not release at all. Unit was later seen retreating into North Pole, not surprisingly.

There was another one at Reading a couple of hours later, I think an 800/0, where one door refused to close and a fitter had to free it, which also resulted in a five minute delay.

802113 not 103 .

irish_rail · 4 Jun 2019

802018 on the Taunton to Cardiff circuit today, is this usual ??

JN114 · 4 Jun 2019

irish_rail said:
802018 on the Taunton to Cardiff circuit today, is this usual ??

Derailment on SPM, lots of West units trapped on depot.

irish_rail · 4 Jun 2019

I see 1a82 63 late due to issues coupling at Plymouth, now formed 5 vice 10 . Now i shall wait to be told how those passengers should count themselves lucky and that the situation is perfectly acceptable , sigh.......

irish_rail · 4 Jun 2019

JN114 said:
Derailment on SPM, lots of West units trapped on depot.

Thanks

Railperf · 4 Jun 2019

Peter Mugridge said:
It was 802 103.

Not the only issues today; 800 307 was delayed 5 minutes at Reading from an on-time arrival because the doors would not release at all. Unit was later seen retreating into North Pole, not surprisingly.

There was another one at Reading a couple of hours later, I think an 800/0, where one door refused to close and a fitter had to free it, which also resulted in a five minute delay.

Interesting .. didn't Hitachi insist on fitting sliding doors because of their reliability?

bastien · 4 Jun 2019

Railperf said:
Interesting .. didn't Hitachi insist on fitting sliding doors because of their reliability?

Someone really good at collecting data and calculating stats could tell us whether these doors are better or worse than the alternative.

northernbelle · 4 Jun 2019

irish_rail said:
I see 1a82 63 late due to issues coupling at Plymouth, now formed 5 vice 10 . Now i shall wait to be told how those passengers should count themselves lucky and that the situation is perfectly acceptable , sigh.......

The situation is not perfectly acceptable by any stretch of the imagination.

However, myself and a number of other people have pointed out that 5 is better than nothing, as would likely be the case in the event of a 9-car IET or HST failure.

irish_rail · 4 Jun 2019

northernbelle said:
The situation is not perfectly acceptable by any stretch of the imagination.

However, myself and a number of other people have pointed out that 5 is better than nothing, as would likely be the case in the event of a 9-car IET or HST failure.

Yes but the point is there would of been no failure in the first place if the coupling wasn't involved. 1a82 would of been on time and a full consist if formed of 9 cars from Penzance.

Envoy · 4 Jun 2019

irish_rail said:
802018 on the Taunton to Cardiff circuit today, is this usual ??

I bet the ‘regulars’ have had a shock!

northernbelle · 4 Jun 2019

irish_rail said:
Yes but the point is there would of been no failure in the first place if the coupling wasn't involved. 1a82 would of been on time and a full consist if formed of 9 cars from Penzance.

So let's add another 4 or 5 needless coaches rather than fix the problem then!

WelshBluebird · 4 Jun 2019

northernbelle said:
So let's add another 4 or 5 needless coaches rather than fix the problem then!

They've had over 18 months to try to fix the problem and we aren't anywhere close. How long should we give it?
This is something that should have been working on day one, no questions (GWR manage it just fine even at Temple Meads with the 15x's).

irish_rail · 4 Jun 2019

WelshBluebird said:
They've had over 18 months to try to fix the problem and we aren't anywhere close. How long should we give it?
This is something that should have been working on day one, no questions (GWR manage it just fine even at Temple Meads with the 15x's).

Exactly. Passengers won't carry on using the service forever. How many missed flights/ hospital appointments/ days out etc etc does it take for someone to say enough is enough. The whole thing works well on paper but it just doesn't in the real world of the railway. If the civil servants that dreamed up these schemes actually got out of the South East once in a while the whole thing wouldn't of got off the drawing board.

And regarding running a 9 coach train in Cornwall- no it would not always be full but on what route is a train at full capacity throughout? Surely running lightly loaded trains should give gwr a chance to really market the extra seats with some cheap tickets and actually grow the business...

GWR Class 800

Established Member

RailUK Forums

Member

Member

Member

Established Member

Veteran Member

Established Member

Member

Established Member

Veteran Member

Established Member

On Moderation

Established Member

Veteran Member

Member

Established Member

Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Member

Member

Established Member

Established Member

Member

Established Member

Established Member