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Reading Green Park Station

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kevin_roche

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It has been a long time coming but yesterday there was a new article on the Get Reading web site saying that plans that have been submitted for Green Park Station in South Reading.

https://www.getreading.co.uk/news/reading-berkshire-news/23m-plan-submitted-green-park-16393388

The station will serve passengers on the Reading to Basingstoke line, with a half-hourly train service running between the two towns.

The planning application, which was submitted to Reading Borough Council and West Berkshire Council on Friday, June 7, is for a station building and open ticket office with ticket barriers, a waiting area and toilets.
 
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swt_passenger

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It has been a long time coming but yesterday there was a new article on the Get Reading web site saying that plans that have been submitted for Green Park Station in South Reading.

https://www.getreading.co.uk/news/reading-berkshire-news/23m-plan-submitted-green-park-16393388
This article reads as though it’s just the building. The station site itself achieved planning approval a while ago and is under construction, they’ve recently started on the access roads and land clearance. I looked for an existing thread about Reading Green Park, but the last one seems to have been in 2014.
 

Mikey C

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Slightly puzzled why the planning application has only just been submitted now, when the station has been planned for years
 

kevin_roche

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Slightly puzzled why the planning application has only just been submitted now, when the station has been planned for years
It does certainly seem to be taking a lot longer than it should. Last year I read that the station was due to be completed by mid 2019 but I believe they only started preparing the site quite recently.
 

swt_passenger

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Slightly puzzled why the planning application has only just been submitted now, when the station has been planned for years
Me too. I’m sure there were reports in other forums referring to a planning application being agreed back in March, and I’m fairly sure it was for a station but might be mistaken.

There were some difficulties last year because apparently part of the site needed Wokingham’s approval.
 

kevin_roche

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The article actually says it was approved by Reading Council in March. Maybe posting it on the Council Planning Web Site is some sort of formal requirement and things have just been done in the wrong order.

The revised plan, which was approved in March, includes a slight relocation of the station – just south of its original position – and the extension of the platforms to 150 meters.
 

swt_passenger

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The article actually says it was approved by Reading Council in March. Maybe posting it on the Council Planning Web Site is some sort of formal requirement and things have just been done in the wrong order.
I’ve found it on the Reading council planning website now, this is definitely a new application, it’s dated only 28th May, and it also reads as just for a station building.
190858
Site Address: Green Park Station
Description: Construction of a building comprising ticket hall, public conveniences, staff facilities and ancillary retail provision to serve the proposed Green Park railway station development, including associated signage.
I therefore suspect the earlier application must have been for a basic pair of platforms with minimum facilities.
 
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transmanche

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The original planning application to Reading Ciuncil was approved on 8 May 2015.

141944
Site Address: Land West Of Longwater Avenue Reading RG2 6GP
Description: Construction of a new Railway Station, bus interchange, multi-storey car park (park and ride facility), short stay car park, taxi drop-off,disable parking facility, station access road from Longwater Avenue, landscaping and associated works.

With a "non-material amendment" approved on 11 January 2018.

It seems the whole development crosses into three local authority areas (Reading, Wokingham and West Berkshire) and thus different parts required the approval of different authorities. The application to Wokingham Council was only made on 25 May 2018 and approval was granted on 28 March 2019.
 

swt_passenger

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The original planning application to Reading Ciuncil was approved on 8 May 2015.



With a "non-material amendment" approved on 11 January 2018.

It seems the whole development crosses into three local authority areas (Reading, Wokingham and West Berkshire) and thus different parts required the approval of different authorities. The application to Wokingham Council was only made on 25 May 2018 and approval was granted on 28 March 2019.
Thanks for finding all that, so with 3 different authorities involved in the station approval so far, does this application now being to Reading possibly mean that the station building itself might just luckily be entirely within Reading’s boundary?
 

coppercapped

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The new planning application is for a station building with more facilities than those previously proposed as house building is going on apace in the area. It has also been reported locally that there was an issue with the platforms which had to be moved slightly due to ground conditions (its all flood plain there and the ground is soft) and as result a bit landed in West Berkshire so that authority had to get involved as well. The boundary of Wokingham District Council meets the other two in the area as well and the boundaries are very irregular - Wokingham DC was also affected with access roads etc.

Edit: I see others have beaten me to it!
 

transmanche

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The boundary of Wokingham District Council meets the other two in the area as well and the boundaries are very irregular - Wokingham DC was also affected with access roads etc.
I think 'irregular" is putting it politely!

This map from Wokingham Council shows the station footprint at the top. The black line is the local authority boundary. The boundary runs along Kirtons Farm Road to include this small isolated pocket which covers the southern end of the platforms!

Screen Shot 2019-06-11 at 13.49.02.png
Source: Wokingham Council - Image shows a map highlighting the location of the new station and shows the local authority boundary.
 

swt_passenger

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If I were Wokingham council I think I’d possibly want to get rid of that odd parcel of land, especially if it meant being asked for future contributions to the station’s costs! Surely there must be scope for rationalisation.

Scanning through the long list of prior planning applications (since around 2008), that are included for info in the latest Wokingham application, it looks as though until the platforms were resited south and lengthened they didn’t actually extend into Wokingham?
 
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kevin_roche

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This map from Wokingham Council shows the station footprint at the top. The black line is the local authority boundary. The boundary runs along Kirtons Farm Road to include this small isolated pocket which covers the southern end of the platforms!

I'm wondering what the blue outlined area to the south on the plan is. I tried to see it on Google maps. it looks to me like it is some sort of electricity substation. I may have to visit and take a look.

Edit: I have since found a better view on Google which shows it to be some sort of farm or industrial buildings, not connected with the railway.
 
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transmanche

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I'm wondering what the blue outlined area to the south on the plan is. I tried to see it on Google maps. it looks to me like it is some sort of electricity substation. I may have to visit and take a look.

Edit: I have since found a better view on Google which shows it to be some sort of farm or industrial buildings, not connected with the railway.
Yes, it's a separate, unrelated planning application.
 

AlastairFraser

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It does certainly seem to be taking a lot longer than it should. Last year I read that the station was due to be completed by mid 2019 but I believe they only started preparing the site quite recently.
It might be because Reading Borough have been more focused on the East Reading MRT and the Royal Oak Park development near the Madjeski Stadium got cancelled.Green Park Village is still there though.
 

cle

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Is there any scope for better service, i.e. 3tph along here? Or the future Crossrail/GW services which were mentioned.
 

coppercapped

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Is there any scope for better service, i.e. 3tph along here? Or the future Crossrail/GW services which were mentioned.
There is generally one, sometimes however two, Cross Country services each hour in each direction between Southcote Junction and Basingstoke as well as an approximately hourly container train in each direction. This section could carry another train each hour without too much trouble., especially if it was electrified or had DMUs with a higher power to weight ratio than the 165/166s.
The pinch point is the two track section between Southcote Junction and Oxford Road Junction (Reading West) which also carries the traffic routed via Newbury: the Reading - Newbury locals; the hourly Paddington - Bedwyn semi fast; the expresses to the West Country and the three or so 4,000 tonne trains from the Mendips each day and the return empties.
Although the connections from Oxford Road Junction to the Great Western Relief Lines in both directions are grade separated from the Mains all the connecting junctions are flat.
To reliably run a third local train per hour between Reading and Basingstoke would need some increase in track capacity.
 

andreading

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As Chair of Shinfield Parish Council (within the borough of Wokingham) I support having half the platforms in our Parish and support keeping that odd shaped triangle. The South Reading and Shinfield area is a major growth zone and the future capacity on the railway line is of great importance. the station is split into 3 authority areas and West Berkshire only recently approved their changes. Work on the Green Park side has been progressing with the car park etc being prepared. This all ensures the Shinfield will be well connected. Our recently opened Park and Ride has direct services to Heathrow and Gatwick
 

II

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There is generally one, sometimes however two, Cross Country services each hour in each direction between Southcote Junction and Basingstoke as well as an approximately hourly container train in each direction. This section could carry another train each hour without too much trouble., especially if it was electrified or had DMUs with a higher power to weight ratio than the 165/166s.
The pinch point is the two track section between Southcote Junction and Oxford Road Junction (Reading West) which also carries the traffic routed via Newbury: the Reading - Newbury locals; the hourly Paddington - Bedwyn semi fast; the expresses to the West Country and the three or so 4,000 tonne trains from the Mendips each day and the return empties.
Although the connections from Oxford Road Junction to the Great Western Relief Lines in both directions are grade separated from the Mains all the connecting junctions are flat.
To reliably run a third local train per hour between Reading and Basingstoke would need some increase in track capacity.

Agree entirely with all that, though there are plans to run a 3tph service during the peak periods from this December's timetable, and the timetable will make passive provision for Green Park calls in readiness for when it opens.
 

AlastairFraser

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Is there any scope for better service, i.e. 3tph along here? Or the future Crossrail/GW services which were mentioned.

There is generally one, sometimes however two, Cross Country services each hour in each direction between Southcote Junction and Basingstoke as well as an approximately hourly container train in each direction. This section could carry another train each hour without too much trouble., especially if it was electrified or had DMUs with a higher power to weight ratio than the 165/166s.
The pinch point is the two track section between Southcote Junction and Oxford Road Junction (Reading West) which also carries the traffic routed via Newbury: the Reading - Newbury locals; the hourly Paddington - Bedwyn semi fast; the expresses to the West Country and the three or so 4,000 tonne trains from the Mendips each day and the return empties.
Although the connections from Oxford Road Junction to the Great Western Relief Lines in both directions are grade separated from the Mains all the connecting junctions are flat.
To reliably run a third local train per hour between Reading and Basingstoke would need some increase in track capacity.
In other words, what we really need is the Didcot , Newbury and Southampton reopened , electrified with 25kv OHLE and all the traffic from the Port of Southampton sent down there.
 
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coppercapped

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In other words,what we really need is the Didcot,Newbury and Southampton reopened,electrified with 25kv OHLE and all the traffic from the Port of Southampton sent down there.
Assuming you are not writing that with your tongue in your cheek, so to speak, I think there is a simpler solution.

That is to grade separate Southcote Junction with a single bi-directional line from the Basingstoke route which comes down to the west of the existing Berks and Hants towards Reading West station and then passes over Oxford Road in Reading on a widened bridge and curves round to join the west chord. This would allow the long north-south container trains to avoid all the east-west traffic between Southcote Junction and Oxford Road Junction - as there is about one train an hour in each direction they do occupy the junctions and sections for some time even running at 40 to 45mph. Removing these in itself would make quite a difference.

The Up platform at Reading West would have to be rebuilt and probably there would be some land take of neighbouring properties to the west of the existing solum, mostly near the station site where extra width is most needed. This land beside the station is used for retail outlets (Lidl, McDonalds, etc.) so in principle could be resited, although it might be expensive to compensate the businesses for loss of trade. Ideally the Reading West Up platform would become an island for operational flexibility, for example northbound stopping passenger trains from the Basingstoke direction could use the flyover (removing another conflict especially in times of disruption) and the outer face to avoid conflicts with Up non-stopping trains from the Newbury direction before they terminate in the west facing bay platforms at Reading. And so on and so forth.

Pipe dreams...!
 
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EvoIV

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Without passing comment on the suggested improvements the issue at Southcote is that during the day freights will nearly always initially be coming up to a red so will rarely still be able to do 45 over the junction by the time the signal has cleared. Even if they are given an early green at Southcote the West curve is only 30 so there is little point keeping the power on, they will coast and let the speed bleed off to be doing 30 at the end of the platform at Reading West.
 

MarkyT

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Assuming you are not writing that with your tongue in your cheek, so to speak, I think there is a simpler solution.

That is to grade separate Southcote Junction with a single bi-directional line from the Basingstoke route which comes down to the west of the existing Berks and Hants towards Reading West station and then passes over Oxford Road in Reading on a widened bridge and curves round to join the west chord. This would allow the long north-south container trains to avoid all the east-west traffic between Southcote Junction and Oxford Road Junction - as there is about one train an hour in each direction they do occupy the junctions and sections for some time even running at 40 to 45mph. Removing these in itself would make quite a difference.

The Up platform at Reading West would have to be rebuilt and probably there would be some land take of neighbouring properties to the west of the existing solum, mostly near the station site where extra width is most needed. This land beside the station is used for retail outlets (Lidl, McDonalds, etc.) so in principle could be resited, although it might be expensive to compensate the businesses for loss of trade. Ideally the Reading West Up platform would become an island for operational flexibility, for example northbound stopping passenger trains from the Basingstoke direction could use the flyover (removing another conflict especially in times of disruption) and the outer face to avoid conflicts with Up non-stopping trains from the Newbury direction before they terminate in the west facing bay platforms at Reading. And so on and so forth.

Pipe dreams...!
The movement combinations are so various and complex that there's no single grade separation that would solve all the conflicts perfectly. Thus I'd go for a flexible three track layout between Southcote Jn and Oxford Road Jn with much bidirectional signalling and copious parallel flat crossover provision so trains can weave around each other in alternative positions according to emerging real time running. An advantage would be smaller land take and visual obtrusion of structures. For example:

Here's an Up arrival from Newbury approaching at the same time as a Down stone empty train crossing from the reliefs towards Westbury while a Southampton - Midlands XC approaches platform #3 at Reading from Basingstoke.
readingwest1.jpg
Here's an Up arrival from Newbury at the same time as a Midlands bound Freightliner, while a Newbury or Basingstoke bound stopper crosses from the reliefs to stop (or not) at Reading West:
readingwest2.jpg
Clearly, Reading West would need a rebuild to make way for the third track and the whole thing would need moving a little further south to create space for the junctions before the Oxford Road bridge. Improved step free access from both Oxford Road and Tilehurst Road could be implemented via new ramps on both sides.
 

AlastairFraser

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Assuming you are not writing that with your tongue in your cheek, so to speak, I think there is a simpler solution.

That is to grade separate Southcote Junction with a single bi-directional line from the Basingstoke route which comes down to the west of the existing Berks and Hants towards Reading West station and then passes over Oxford Road in Reading on a widened bridge and curves round to join the west chord. This would allow the long north-south container trains to avoid all the east-west traffic between Southcote Junction and Oxford Road Junction - as there is about one train an hour in each direction they do occupy the junctions and sections for some time even running at 40 to 45mph. Removing these in itself would make quite a difference.

The Up platform at Reading West would have to be rebuilt and probably there would be some land take of neighbouring properties to the west of the existing solum, mostly near the station site where extra width is most needed. This land beside the station is used for retail outlets (Lidl, McDonalds, etc.) so in principle could be resited, although it might be expensive to compensate the businesses for loss of trade. Ideally the Reading West Up platform would become an island for operational flexibility, for example northbound stopping passenger trains from the Basingstoke direction could use the flyover (removing another conflict especially in times of disruption) and the outer face to avoid conflicts with Up non-stopping trains from the Newbury direction before they terminate in the west facing bay platforms at Reading. And so on and so forth.

Pipe dreams...!
Good idea,but nearly as expensive as mine because of all the property you'd have to buy.
 

coppercapped

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Good idea,but nearly as expensive as mine because of all the property you'd have to buy.
Hmm!

The 2015 Western Route Study quoted by swt_passenger gives a notional cost of around £100 million for the package of grade separation at Southcote, a third track to Oxford Road Junction and rebuilding Reading West station.

Reopening the Didcot, Newbury and Southampton line would almost certainly cost a lot more, at least 10 times more. Much of the route has been lost under road schemes and buildings, especially around Didcot, Hampstead Norreys, Newbury, Whitchurch, Sutton Scotney and Winchester so a completely new alignment would be needed in many places. The old route had flat junctions at Didcot - with the increase in traffic on the Great Western Main Line grade separation of the Mains at least to the route to Oxford would be essential - so, based on the price that Network Rail quoted in the Western Route Study for a flyover at Southcote, that is £40 to £50 million before one starts rebuilding the route!

Never say never - but it won't happen in the foreseeable future.
 

AlastairFraser

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Hmm!

The 2015 Western Route Study quoted by swt_passenger gives a notional cost of around £100 million for the package of grade separation at Southcote, a third track to Oxford Road Junction and rebuilding Reading West station.

Reopening the Didcot, Newbury and Southampton line would almost certainly cost a lot more, at least 10 times more. Much of the route has been lost under road schemes and buildings, especially around Didcot, Hampstead Norreys, Newbury, Whitchurch, Sutton Scotney and Winchester so a completely new alignment would be needed in many places. The old route had flat junctions at Didcot - with the increase in traffic on the Great Western Main Line grade separation of the Mains at least to the route to Oxford would be essential - so, based on the price that Network Rail quoted in the Western Route Study for a flyover at Southcote, that is £40 to £50 million before one starts rebuilding the route!

Never say never - but it won't happen in the foreseeable future.
True,but I'd like to see Network Rail try pushing that through the RBC planning committee-they blocked a new footbridge at Reading West and this is a much,much bigger scheme obviously.
 

coppercapped

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True,but I'd like to see Network Rail try pushing that through the RBC planning committee-they blocked a new footbridge at Reading West and this is a much,much bigger scheme obviously.
The Council received objections from local residents that the proposed position of the footbridge would mean that their properties were overlooked. The rejection was entirely understandable and it looks as if the footbridge will be built at another location once the planning process is completed.
If Network Rail plans the design of the grade separation to suit the peculiarities of the site and consults properly with the local residents, businesses and the Council there is no reason to suppose that an application would be rejected. The National Planning Policy Framework (2018) - the document which lays out how local government's Local Plans are to be prepared - has this to say about infrastructure proposals:
The Framework does not contain specific policies for nationally significant infrastructure projects. These are determined in accordance with the decision- making framework in the Planning Act 2008 (as amended) and relevant national policy statements for major infrastructure, as well as any other matters that are relevant (which may include the National Planning Policy Framework). National policy statements form part of the overall framework of national planning policy, and may be a material consideration in preparing plans and making decisions on planning applications.
What is required is that Network Rail is not so cack-handed as it was at Steventon.
 

AlastairFraser

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The Council received objections from local residents that the proposed position of the footbridge would mean that their properties were overlooked. The rejection was entirely understandable and it looks as if the footbridge will be built at another location once the planning process is completed.
If Network Rail plans the design of the grade separation to suit the peculiarities of the site and consults properly with the local residents, businesses and the Council there is no reason to suppose that an application would be rejected. The National Planning Policy Framework (2018) - the document which lays out how local government's Local Plans are to be prepared - has this to say about infrastructure proposals:

What is required is that Network Rail is not so cack-handed as it was at Steventon.
Fair enough, no problem with the grade separation-it just seems a bad option to stick a third track on a very narrow corridor through a very densely populated area that will require property demolition for it to be built. Have other options not been discussed-perhaps a tunnelled 3rd track from Southcote Jcn to Oxford Road Jcn-although that would be prohibitively expensive or perhaps something a little cheaper like passenger/goods loops on the B+H/Reading-B'stoke line just before Southcote Jcn or goods loops on part of the old Coley branch line(I know not all of it is still available.)
 
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