Caledonian Sleeper

_toommm_ · 12 Jun 2019

Unsure if this has been posted yet, but this is a quote from the Cally Sleeper website:

Boarding Time Change – 3rd June 2019 onward:
Northbound Lowlander – London Euston to Glasgow / Edinburgh: From 3rd June 2019, boarding for these services has been changed to 22:30

Boarding times at all other locations remain unchanged.

I'm guessing this is due to the consistent late arrival of the Lowlander stock. Link below:

https://www.sleeper.scot/service-alterations/

RailUK Forums

Highlandspring · 12 Jun 2019

urpert said:
5S96 hasn’t left Wembley yet (is there actually any stock to move?)

It was the northbound Lowlander that had the problem this morning so there will be a set in London...

CosherB · 12 Jun 2019

Mag_seven said:
Have you been reading the last few pages of this thread? If you do it should answer your questions.

So the head of Serco has to address wheel flats as well now?

Caleb2010 · 12 Jun 2019

No! But he should be held to account for what is done with the passengers when they expect something that's promised and don't get anything near it!

Bletchleyite · 12 Jun 2019

CosherB said:
So the head of Serco has to address wheel flats as well now?

He is the one accountable to the Scottish Government for provision of the service, including managing the contract with CAF which seems to have gone badly wrong (just like most of the current generation of new stock!)

Mag_seven · 12 Jun 2019

CosherB said:
So the head of Serco has to address wheel flats as well now?

No not just for last nights debacle for the whole series of incidents that have been well documented in this thread (and in the press).

MrEd · 12 Jun 2019

BRX said:
I think I might revise this to Christmas, or something.

It seems (to me anyway) that the Mk5s need a lot more testing, and a lot more problems ironing out, before they’re introduced on the Highlander. If I were CS I would be very wary of there being a repeat of this, particularly on the Highlander, for which the consequences of a cancellation in the middle of the night are even more serious (given the increased distances). I am myself a little sceptical about the introduction date in early July; early autumn might be the better bet, and would certainly be more achievable in the present situation. This incident is definitely something which CS can learn from; I wonder what caused the emergency brake application in the first place?

Bletchleyite · 12 Jun 2019

MrEd said:
It seems (to me anyway) that the Mk5s need a lot more testing, and a lot more problems ironing out, before they’re introduced on the Highlander. If I were CS I would be very wary of there being a repeat of this, particularly on the Highlander, for which the consequences of a cancellation in the middle of the night are even more serious (given the increased distances). I am myself a little sceptical about the introduction date in early July; early autumn might be the better bet, and would certainly be more achievable in the present situation. This incident is definitely something which CS can learn from; I wonder what caused the emergency brake application in the first place?

Though they will also have to do something about the Lowlander, as that one is the major carrier of all-year business traffic, isn't it? Lose that to air and it'll be hard to get it back.

Have those Mk3s gone under the torch yet? Might be time to get them back...

Glenn1969 · 12 Jun 2019

I did wonder in current circumstances whether the Highlander could convey Euston passengers from its coupling point at Edinburgh if it had to- surely a train running with a 2 hour delay to Euston is better than a coach or nothing at all?

MrEd · 12 Jun 2019

Bletchleyite said:
Though they will also have to do something about the Lowlander, as that one is the major carrier of all-year business traffic, isn't it? Lose that to air and it'll be hard to get it back.

Have those Mk3s gone under the torch yet? Might be time to get them back...

To be fair, both are essential services and both need to be working reliably all year round. Anything less, and CS need to be held to account. I wonder if reintroducing Mk3s on the Lowlander might cause even more reputational damage (though if the set involved in the incident last night is out of action long term, it may be their only option to keep a service running, and we’d all far rather have a service than none at all). That said, I’m not sure there are any Mk3s (or Mk2 lounges/seated coaches) spare now. Some Mk2s have already gone into store (at the Weardale railway, I think, perhaps those owned by Eastern Rail Services?) so these may not be that easy to reinstate at short notice, not sure about what’s happened to the Mk3s displaced from the Lowlander after April?

MrEd · 12 Jun 2019

Glenn1969 said:
I did wonder in current circumstances whether the Highlander could convey Euston passengers from its coupling point at Edinburgh if it had to- surely a train running with a 2 hour delay to Euston is better than a coach or nothing at all?

The Highlander has done this in the past (e.g. when there was severe disruption to the Lowlander due to a shortage of brake vehicles in autumn 2015), but only when there’s been enough spare capacity across the three portions. Its not an ideal solution but it’s better than nothing. Unfortunately, it’s getting towards peak tourist season, and the chances of there being more than about half a dozen spare berths on any portion of the Highlander on any night are fairly small. There’s no way you could fit all the Edinburgh portion passengers on it at this time of year (not even on a Tuesday or Wednesday night, I don’t think).

haggishunter · 12 Jun 2019

MrEd said:
I am myself a little sceptical about the introduction date in early July; early autumn might be the better bet, and would certainly be more achievable in the present situation. This incident is definitely something which CS can learn from; I wonder what caused the emergency brake application in the first place?

Though arguably it would be better to do the switch at the height of summer than going into worse weather (ha don't laugh) and the long dark nights of winter. Had an uneventful journey on Monday night, left Euston on time, couple of minutes early into Inverness on the old stock on Tuesday morning. But there's an increasing amount of duct tape in evidence ! :lol:

WesternLancer · 12 Jun 2019

Bletchleyite said:
He is the one accountable to the Scottish Government for provision of the service, including managing the contract with CAF which seems to have gone badly wrong (just like most of the current generation of new stock!)

indeed - point well made.

TimboM · 12 Jun 2019

Steve Harris said:
Isn't there a wheel lathe at Crewe Eletric ?

I'm sure i saw one on an open day years ago.

Yes - but the ETD is at capacity currently and couldn’t fit them in. Hence off to Longsight.

One thing this incident has confirmed is there’s one thing on the Mk5s that are very effective - the brakes!

Mag_seven · 13 Jun 2019

_toommm_ said:
It will be interesting to see how the Sleepers perform tonight...

1M11 (southbound lowlander) cancelled.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G84617/2019/06/12/advanced

MylesHSG · 13 Jun 2019

MrEd said:
not sure about what’s happened to the Mk3s displaced from the Lowlander after April?

There looks to be a full (or near full) set still at Wembley. I'll get a better look tomorrow as I'll walk through the depot to work.

M60lad · 13 Jun 2019

Was there a reason why some new Caledonian Sleeper Coaches were at Crewe yesterday? Are these new ones that haven't seen service yet or have they been sent to Crewe for another reason? I saw them last night at about 19:00 as I was entering Crewe Station on a EMT 158 that was on Derby-Crewe service

MadCommuter · 13 Jun 2019

M60lad said:
Was there a reason why some new Caledonian Sleeper Coaches were at Crewe yesterday? Are these new ones that haven't seen service yet or have they been sent to Crewe for another reason? I saw them last night at about 19:00 as I was entering Crewe Station on a EMT 158 that was on Derby-Crewe service

Have a read through the last few pages. In summary, a brake application caused wheel flats and service cancelled at Stafford.

Carlisle · 13 Jun 2019

Mag_seven said:
I wonder if the head of Serco has been summoned to the offices of Transport Scotland for a severe knuckle rapping!

Would it make any difference? given todays railway’s complex myriad of suppliers & contractual relationships usually make it relatively straightforward for them to hide behind in these type of situations

TimboM · 13 Jun 2019

MylesHSG said:
There looks to be a full (or near full) set still at Wembley. I'll get a better look tomorrow as I'll walk through the depot to work.

The Mk3s are still at Wembley/Polmadie. Six of the Mk2s have been moved to the Weardale Railway (as Eastern Rail Services bought some of them last year and leased back to Serco and other's are being stored there).

Of note all 92s bar 044 (awaiting Exam) and 032 (at the tunnel) are now configured for Mk5 1500V ETS and there's currently only 2x Skoda's on-hire for the Lowlander (plus 87002 available at Wembley for ECS shunts). So something would need to be done around loco provision as well as digging out the musty stock and replacing any bits on them that have been 'borrowed' over the past few weeks to keep the active fleet going.

TimboM · 13 Jun 2019

Carlisle said:
Would it make any difference? given todays railway’s myriad of different suppliers & contractual relationships make it pretty straightforward for them to hide behind in these type of situations

Having been in similar scenarios the "customer" (Transport Scotland) will most certainly be holding Serco's feet to the fire on this and any response of "it was CAF's fault" or "it was XYZ's sub-contractor's fault" would get very short shrift. If any such response/excuse was offered up, the customer/client would quickly point out they are Serco's sub-contractors to select/manage and it's Serco's responsibility to deliver the service to TS / the passengers.

That said, as mentioned a few times by other posters, it's pretty apparent Transport Scotland are culpable in a lot of this via their franchise requirements and putting pressure to get the stock into service when clearly it was/is not ready. They would never admit that though - but that's client/customer prerogative... the customer is always right!

47271 · 13 Jun 2019

In fairness to Serco their CEO Rupert Soames is a very visible presence in relation to the sleeper, has taken a close interest in it from the original bid, and uses the Fort William and Inverness sections of the Highlander on a regular basis, so he isn't hiding from anyone.

Which is all great, but unfortunately that visibility doesn't directly help the new trains operate as they should.

captainbigun · 13 Jun 2019

TimboM said:
The Mk3s are still at Wembley/Polmadie. Six of the Mk2s have been moved to the Weardale Railway (as Eastern Rail Services bought some of them last year and leased back to Serco and other's are being stored there).

Of note all 92s bar 044 (awaiting Exam) and 032 (at the tunnel) are now configured for Mk5 1500V ETS and there's currently only 2x Skoda's on-hire for the Lowlander (plus 87002 available at Wembley for ECS shunts). So something would need to be done around loco provision as well as digging out the musty stock and replacing any bits on them that have been 'borrowed' over the past few weeks to keep the active fleet going.

86101 is also available. Haulage is not likely to be the problem.

haggishunter · 13 Jun 2019

Is this a chunk of the Sleeper going back to London from Crewe? http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O13300/2019/06/12/advanced

Steve Harris · 13 Jun 2019

TimboM said:
Yes - but the ETD is at capacity currently and couldn’t fit them in. Hence off to Longsight.

One thing this incident has confirmed is there’s one thing on the Mk5s that are very effective - the brakes!

Fair Enough.

Thanks for the update.

Essexman · 13 Jun 2019

I wonder if they’ll run a short former set on the Lowlander if some coaches are ok. Maybe only to Edinburgh. Or are some of the other new ones ok to use.

Bletchleyite · 13 Jun 2019

Essexman said:
I wonder if they’ll run a short former set on the Lowlander if some coaches are ok. Maybe only to Edinburgh. Or are some of the other new ones ok to use.

I did wonder if they should perhaps consider doing that. Or even making changes to the Highlander to free up a half-set - perhaps run Aberdeen via Inverness, or Inverness via Aberdeen, instead of the present split? (The FW short set is perhaps less useful, though a "day" Mk2 BSO could be hired to be used on that to free up a proper Sleeper one as it has been in the past)

Steve Harris · 13 Jun 2019

Essexman said:
I wonder if they’ll run a short former set on the Lowlander if some coaches are ok. Maybe only to Edinburgh. Or are some of the other new ones ok to use.

One would presume that any new Mk5's not already used in revenue earning service but cleared to be used would need to have modifications /fixes carried out as per the ones already in use.

As an outsider looking in, with the empty stock turning up from the depot late every day, I doubt it very much.

This is all a presumption though. So I gladly look to be proved wrong by someone with insider knowledge.

Scotrail84 · 13 Jun 2019

Bletchleyite said:
I did wonder if they should perhaps consider doing that. Or even making changes to the Highlander to free up a half-set - perhaps run Aberdeen via Inverness, or Inverness via Aberdeen, instead of the present split? (The FW short set is perhaps less useful, though a "day" Mk2 BSO could be hired to be used on that to free up a proper Sleeper one as it has been in the past)

Absolutely no chance. That would cause more harm than good.

Bletchleyite · 13 Jun 2019

Scotrail84 said:
Absolutely no chance. That would cause more harm than good.

I suppose that would depend which portion is more lucrative. Isn't the Aberdeen rather quiet these days, hence FW usually getting the longer "half set"? (A strange change in fortunes!)

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