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Wabtec Awarded Contract For £60M Class 321 Refurbishment Project.

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samuelmorris

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One of them might have been me - i did maintain that it was a little early for 321s to be going to the scrapman at 29 years for the earliest examples, but with the current status of imminently off-lease units and electrification delays we have far more 'important' fleets to rehome than these. Only saving grace they may have is if the Renatus 321s can still be leased for a substantially lower price than contemporary units.
 
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ginger

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One of them might have been me - i did maintain that it was a little early for 321s to be going to the scrapman at 29 years for the earliest examples, but with the current status of imminently off-lease units and electrification delays we have far more 'important' fleets to rehome than these. Only saving grace they may have is if the Renatus 321s can still be leased for a substantially lower price than contemporary units.

Sam - had it confirmed today - "THEY DONT WORK PROPERLY OR RELIABLY".....

What a surprise! 3 hanging around Ilford sitting there doing nothing.....been there for weeks.....numerous sent back for rectification.....

(sigh) alas 321 lovers needs to admit defeat to this flawed project.....new fleets are cheaper by the way if ordered en masse.....

Might be a few places for them but the ongoing maintenance / reliability issues after three years will no doubt put any TOC off for such a small fleet
 

samuelmorris

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It may be good money after bad but I wonder what extent of these issues are related to cost-cutting on this project - the interior on the Renatus units certainly does show how cheaply it's been engineered in places - rewiring old units can't be easy but A/C systems aren't that difficult to get right these days and that I gather is one of the most problematic areas of all. Presumably, like the PIS, it doesn't work right because it isn't built properly to begin with. As tatty as they are, the 321s were built to a reasonable standard when they were new. No '321 fan club' here, many simply decried the waste of, presumably, scrapping units that while old were not unfit for duty - the persistence of the 319s with an even worse reliability record are evidence of that. With the SWR, LM and other announcements, however, it all pales into insignificance - the majority of the 321 fleet is likely to be recycled by 2021 but there will be 350s, 360s, 379s, 458s and potentially even 707s off-lease at that stage, while the shortage of DMUs elsewhere, particularly in the North, rages on. This makes scrapping the 321s no less a waste, but certainly inconsequential, comparatively speaking.
 

F Great Eastern

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The thing is I suspect that knowing that these units face a very bleak future post 2019/2020 there have been corners cut on this project and the costs cut to reflect that, so the problems that are being described really don't surprise me that much.

As was previously said there will be much newer fleets that are avaliable at the same time that will be of better quality and far newer that will be in more widespread demand and I honestly think that this project could turn out to be a waste of money.
 

MCR247

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Surely at the start of the project it wasn't known they'd have short lives so when did this 'cost-cutting' take place?
 

superalbs

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Captured a picture of the new hopper windows today at Doncaster.
 

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samuelmorris

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Seems like either they're still somehow short of units or that's real stubbornness to get a return on investment - doing that can't have been particularly cheap and with 18 months left to run, a non-standard unit like that should perhaps have gone the way of 317722...
 

Andrew1395

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My commuting traction has evolved from 310s to 350s via a brief period of 317s, and the 321 fleet. They were a reliable workhorse, with the lack of corridor connection the only downside compared to the 317. However they 350s are the best units to serve Euston. If the 321s are scrapped the industry has had good value out of them. Compared to modern units they offer a basic customer experience. To upgrade them seems rather hopeful. A bit like Blackpool competing with the Canary Islands for winter break holidays. Some will prefer them but the majority will see the benefit of new fleets
 

samuelmorris

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First time riding a Renatus unit at night this evening - does anyone else find the lighting extremely bright? Perhaps due to the more conventional colour scheme, it seems even brighter than I remember the Demonstrator being...
 

AC47461

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Well I had a first ride on one this morning. 304 let loose in an 8-car train (1K35 Southend Vic-Liverpool St).

I like the interior, and the door area is a bit larger which helps circulating. The lights are brighter but personally I found them ok, the seats are harder but posture wise much nicer than the older seats (that although were a bit softer, were very variable in shape and height depending on how beaten up the seat bases were!). Leg room seems about the same. Temperature was also ok, so at least I can say the aircon was working.

It was noticeable that accelerating and braking was being carried out much gentler, and although the train was 5 late at Billericay, RTT shows it made the time up. I guess the drivers are being careful as the traction packages are different between the two units, and/or given the problems GA have had with them I guess they're being careful with them anyway.

All in all, despite only a 12 minute ride, I thought it was a massive improvement, though it's hard to see the justification in investment given the length of time they probably have left.
 
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rich78

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Having been on one this evening where the lighting failed completely mid journey and it gave up the ghost completely at chelmsford i think they still have a long way to go to improve the reliability.
 

dp21

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All in all, despite only a 12 minute ride, I thought it was a massive improvement, though it's hard to see the justification in investment given the length of time they probably have left.

The first few should have been in service OVER a year ago now and it's a franchise commitment so the gvt will hold both GA and Eversholt to account to deliver these so they have to. Given it's been such a burden, if it wasn't a CO I reckon, as you say, it would have been canned by now.
 

Alfie1014

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All returned a few months back, 330’s about seen it few t8mes recently. Travelled home on an 8 car this afternoon, rear unit swelteringly hot, the front unit thankfully cool! Air-con seems very variable even within sets!
 

Wivenswold

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Given their problems it would be astonishing if they rather than the 379s are retained to reach the parts the Aventras cannot.
 

306024

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The 321 renatus project has not been a text book example on how to refurbish a unit. Prefer the unrefurbished version personally. But no GE crews sign 379s (the battery project on the Harwich branch is ancient memory now) so more driver training on top of that already required isn't desirable either.
 

Islineclear3_1

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I am on an unrefurb unit now with open windows as aircon, seems so old now but at least nothing to go wrong...

448 was still at Clacton the other week so clearly GA are in no rush to get it back to traffic, how ironic considering it was mrant to be the flagship refurb
 

Wivenswold

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The 321 renatus project has not been a text book example on how to refurbish a unit. Prefer the unrefurbished version personally. But no GE crews sign 379s (the battery project on the Harwich branch is ancient memory now) so more driver training on top of that already required isn't desirable either.

The need on the GA side is limited to the Southminster branch, so I guess that would be run from Ilford with WA drivers signing that route.
Otherwise the need for a "legacy" fleet is on the WA locals and possibly Cambridge - Kings Lynn. Unless of course I've missed something obvious, which happens.
 

samuelmorris

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I am on an unrefurb unit now with open windows as aircon, seems so old now but at least nothing to go wrong...

448 was still at Clacton the other week so clearly GA are in no rush to get it back to traffic, how ironic considering it was mrant to be the flagship refurb
As far as I know, 448 isn't being used again is it?
 
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