I have an Advance ticket from Birmingham New Street to Sowerby Bridge. It includes reservations for the Birmingham-Manchester Picadilly and Manchester Victoria-Sowerby Bridge legs, but there are no Picadilly-Victoria services referenced, even on a counted place basis. Can I therefore assume validity on any such services, or is it presuming a walk between the two stations?
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Cross-Manchester validity of Advance tickets
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Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Does your itinerary include any such services?
It will be whatever is shown on the booking itinerary - ie a walk if no train has been booked.
All decisions about what transport is / isn't included are made at the time of booking with advance tickets, not at the point of travel.
It is of course now possible to travel direct from Manchester Piccadilly to Manchester Victoria by train now but as TPE services are reservable you would need a reservation (or additional ticket) to travel on one to save the walk. An additional ticket is needed for Metrolink if travelling as part of a journey to / from outside Greater Manchester and no explicit routeing for Metrolink is shown on the ticket.
ForTheLoveOf
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Whilst this may be the internal policy of the rail industry, I fail to see how, for a route "XC & Connections" ticket, a TPE service between Piccadilly and Victoria would not be an appropriate connecting service which could be used. Indeed, National Rail Enquiries puts it this way:
I would never even consider walking over taking the train for this particular transfer, unless there wasn't a suitable train at the time I wanted to travel!
1) Find a TPE service between Piccadilly and Victoria on which you don't need reservations. It is unlikely you will find one.
2) Try putting "via Manchester Oxford Road" for a ticket from Birmingham New Street to Sowerby Bridge into a booking engine. You will find it only returns walk up tickets - ie no quota for 'XC & Connections' advance tickets.
Don't forget that it is a valid tool of the pricing manager for operator B to provide no quota for operator A's 'Operator A & connections' tickets.
Now, there is an argument that having 'long-distance" trains from Manchester Airport to Newcastle clogged up with reservations between Manchester Piccadilly and Manchester Victoria is a bad thing but if it is a reservable train you need a reservation even if you are on the 'connections' part of the ticket and not the lead operator.
If you want to avoid walking across Manchester, you set that up at the booking stage. Alternatively you book it with a walk and then pay £2.60 for the train.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Or use the tram, which I think costs less than £2.60.
I’m not complaining about walking between the two stations. However, given that it’s in the middle of the journey rather than the beginning or the end, and there are frequent trains between the two (so isn’t a Bradford Interchange-Forster Square issue for example) I can see that some passengers could reasonably get confused.
trainophile
Established Member
Aren't there still free shuttle buses between the two stations? I know they take ages because of the traffic, but depending on your connection time they could work... if they still exist.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Yes, though you're probably quicker off walking (particularly from Picc to Vic - it's a one way circuit), so there's only really any point using it if you have mobility issues (or a lot of luggage):
https://tfgm.com/public-transport/bus/free-bus
What's the itinerary?
In practice, if there is an appropriate train, you will be able to get on it.
TPE aren't going to refuse you access to it just because you don't have a reservation (in the unlikely event of a check).
In future, if you wish to avoid the walk, there are two options
1) Use a booking engine that allows you to avoid 'walks' and 'transfers'; this will force the use of trains.
or
2) Consider using a combination of tickets including a Greater Manchester priced ticket, such as Rochdale to Stockport route Metrolink Ctlz http://www.brfares.com/#faredetail?orig=RCD&dest=SPT&rte=318&tkt=CDR ; this will include the use of the tram. It's worth using one of the accredited split ticketing sites as they may offer this by default if it's cheaper.
ForTheLoveOf
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It is irrelevant whether or not the service carries reservations. The idea that a service is not an "appropriate connecting service" merely because it carries reservations and you don't have one is, frankly, bonkers! You will note that NRE places no such restriction on the connecting service and the only place where this myth comes from is an internal policy document - i.e. something which is entirely unenforceable against passengers!
It is irrelevant whether you are able to find the same kind of ticket on the precise trains you intend to use. For any non-reserved portions of your journey you may take "any appropriate connecting train"; there is no further qualification in the instructions given by NRE. If TransPennine Express are not happy with carrying "XC & Connections" Advance holding passengers then they should take it up with CrossCountry and make them change the routeing to something like "XC & Northern". However, this would only work for this one particular flow so it is never going to be done, as it would be an entirely fruitless effort.
That is one option - the other is to take "appropriate connecting trains".
There is no additional fare that needs to be paid.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Even if it wasn't technically allowed or one would expect to be challenged despite this, there is no chance of tickets being done between Picc and Vic via the Ordsall Chord anyway, there simply isn't time.
But as you say a TPE service may not be suitably timed, I'd expect it to come up on the itinerary if one was, it certainly has for me.
There are a small number of Northern services between Piccadilly and Victoria - there are some reasonable advances available using them (I did Manchester Airport to Bradford for £7.00 last month).
Scotty
Member
£1.40 for a Zone 1 single.
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