• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Change in Gold Card T&C's when buying discounted tickets for others?

Status
Not open for further replies.

arb

Member
Joined
31 Oct 2010
Messages
412
I renewed my annual season ticket this morning, and was handed one of the mini fold-up paper booklets with all the terms and conditions, map of the area, etc. I was then killing some time on my commute by reading through the whole booklet, and discovered something that I didn't know before. Quoting the first part of condition 7:

All discounted price tickets purchased by the Annual Gold Card holder for themselves and any companions, should be issued to cover travel from and to the same origin and destination. If the journey you are making is covered by your annual season ticket you do not need to buy yourself a ticket.

I don't recall ever previously seeing the bit about origin and destination of companion tickets being the same, and, having got home tonight and dug out an old copy of the same booklet (which says 'effective from 2nd January 2016'), I can see that the first sentence of my quote above is not included in the older form of condition 7.

This seems to explicitly prohibit the case where I'm making a journey that is an extension to my normal commute, and I'm travelling with somebody who doesn't have a season ticket. For example, my season ticket is Ely to Cambridge. If I want to travel Ely to London with a friend, I obviously need to buy a Cambridge to London ticket for myself. But my friend would need to buy an Ely to London ticket. Therefore we have to buy tickets that do not have the same origin and destination, and so my friend cannot obtain the Gold Card discount.

Another case is when I've travelled to Stansted to meet/say goodbye to a a visitor. I've previously bought two Cambridge to Stansted day returns for myself (one for their day of arrival, and one for their departure date), plus a Stansted to Ely open return for them. Here our origins and destinations are reversed, as well as being an extension to the season ticket.

There are workarounds of course - this rule seems to explicitly force you into split ticketing. In the London case, if my friend travels with separate Ely to Cambridge, and Cambridge to London tickets, then they will always be using tickets that have the same origin and destination as me, and so they are suddenly allowed to obtain the Gold Card discount again. (And, oh look, that particular example happens to be cheaper than buying an Ely to London ticket ;), but there must be many cases where this forced splitting is now more expensive, not to mention it being a bit of a faff for many people).

Initially I wasn't sure if I was reading too much into the altered condition, but having read it a few times it seems pretty clear to me. There must be loads of people who do something similar to my Ely to Cambridge to London example all the time - I've certainly been doing it with friends for years without ever batting an eyelid or thinking that it might be against the rules. Is it really now only allowed if you always split tickets for your non-season ticket holding friends? Or am I overthinking it? Does anybody know when this condition was actually changed?
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

30907

Veteran Member
Joined
30 Sep 2012
Messages
18,051
Location
Airedale
Surely "to cover travel..." is deliberately phrased to allow for this. "For travel..." would be the more restrictive version.
 

arb

Member
Joined
31 Oct 2010
Messages
412
Yeah, OK, having thought about it for a while I can see that way of interpreting it. Though I think it's grossly unclear and incredibly badly phrased. If I'm doubting whether such an obvious use of the Gold Card is allowed or not, then something is wrong! How about: "When using discounted price tickets, the Annual Gold Card holder and their companions must travel together at all times. The Annual Gold Card holder does not need to purchase an additional ticket for themselves for any part of the journey covered by their season ticket, but tickets purchased for any companions must cover the full journey being made".
 

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
97,879
Location
"Marston Vale mafia"
Yeah, OK, having thought about it for a while I can see that way of interpreting it. Though I think it's grossly unclear and incredibly badly phrased. If I'm doubting whether such an obvious use of the Gold Card is allowed or not, then something is wrong! How about: "When using discounted price tickets, the Annual Gold Card holder and their companions must travel together at all times. The Annual Gold Card holder does not need to purchase an additional ticket for themselves for any part of the journey covered by their season ticket, but tickets purchased for any companions must cover the full journey being made".

I think I would go with something more like:

"The holder of the Annual Gold Card must accompany passengers for whom they have purchased discounted tickets throughout their journey such that the Gold Card can be produced if requested at any ticket barrier or at any other ticket inspection that may be carried out while they are on Railway property. If the Gold Card is not produced when the tickets are inspected at a station or on a train, the tickets will not be valid and the passengers will be treated as if they had travelled without a ticket, which could render them liable to a Penalty Fare or prosecution as appropriate, but as a minimum will result in the purchase of a completely new ticket being necessary for their journey.

To clarify this means it will not generally be possible to have people travelling with you on discounted tickets using your Gold Card meet you on the train; it will be necessary for you to break your journey, provided this is permitted by your ticket, to escort them through any ticket barrier or other ticket check that may occur".

That would seem to make the point of it clear, no?
 

talldave

Established Member
Joined
24 Jan 2013
Messages
2,184
Yeah, OK, having thought about it for a while I can see that way of interpreting it. Though I think it's grossly unclear and incredibly badly phrased. If I'm doubting whether such an obvious use of the Gold Card is allowed or not, then something is wrong! How about: "When using discounted price tickets, the Annual Gold Card holder and their companions must travel together at all times. The Annual Gold Card holder does not need to purchase an additional ticket for themselves for any part of the journey covered by their season ticket, but tickets purchased for any companions must cover the full journey being made".

Apart from "discounted" instead of "discounted price", I think that text is great. Unless I'm missing subtle sarcasm, Bletchleyite appears to be going off at a very verbose tangent.
 

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
97,879
Location
"Marston Vale mafia"
Apart from "discounted" instead of "discounted price", I think that text is great. Unless I'm missing subtle sarcasm, Bletchleyite appears to be going off at a very verbose tangent.

The intent was to make it clear that not only must they travel together but also be together when inside any barriers or revenue checks. The former allows one to meet on a train, the latter does not, and it's the latter that is actually the case.
 

arb

Member
Joined
31 Oct 2010
Messages
412
The intent was to make it clear that not only must they travel together but also be together when inside any barriers or revenue checks. The former allows one to meet on a train, the latter does not, and it's the latter that is actually the case.

If that is the intention of the new wording, what's wrong with just saying that?

I wouldn't in a million years have ever dreamt there'd be a problem with people trying to pass through ticket barriers using a gold card discounted ticket but without the gold card owning person present. Nobody is that stupid, are they?!? So I guess that's why I misinterpreted what was meant by the new wording.

But if I had believed that was allowed, the new wording wouldn't have changed my behaviour in a way that fixed the problem. Let's say I'd previously been buying a Cambridge to Hitchin ticket for my friend and a Cambridge to Stevenage ticket for me, leaving my friend to fend for themselves at Hitchin whilst I carried on to Stevenage on the same train. Now, all the new wording would make me do is buy two Cambridge to Hitchin tickets (thus we have the same origin and destination) and one Hitchin to Stevenage ticket. Leaving my friend with exactly the same problem at the Hitchin ticket barrier as before.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top