Rock Ferry 2229 - Failure to call?

Hi,

Apparently the 2229 into Liverpool (X Chester) didn’t stop at Rock Ferry last night.

I had a look at RTT and it would appear to be this service 2C57:

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y30231/2019/07/20/advanced

But it doesn’t even show it leaving CTR.

2Y37 (X ELP) apparently did stop but that one isn’t updating on RTT either.

Saperstein.

Saperstein said:

Hi,

Apparently the 2229 into Liverpool (X Chester) didn’t stop at Rock Ferry last night.

I had a look at RTT and it would appear to be this service 2C57:

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y30231/2019/07/20/advanced

But it doesn’t even show it leaving CTR.

2Y37 (X ELP) apparently did stop but that one isn’t updating on RTT either.

Saperstein.

Click to expand...

First - I think you linked the wrong schedule. That is today's (saturdays) 2200, 2C57 from Chester.
This is the link to Fridays: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C65889/2019/07/19/advanced
(easy one to do, working over midnight, I do it all the time).

It appears indeed to be a multiple fail to call... as I've seen previously on merseyrail threads, they tend to do that to make up time when delayed.
It doesn't look right to me though - more info is required... it was only 3 late, missed 6 stops arriving 5 early at birkenhead central and waited right time departure. Seems strange.

RE 2Y37 - ellsmere port - ellsmere port - is this the one you meant? (again, Friday 19th July)
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y30089/2019/07/19/advanced

EDIT: 2C57 2200 ex-Chester was the only FTC at those six stations between 2200 and 2300.

You can see something closer to the raw TRUST data here

http://charlwoodhouse.co.uk/rail/liverail/train/16609465/19/07/19

but it doesn't really offer any more clues. The Manual entry at Rock Ferry added two hours later marking the train as Terminated is peculiar.

800002 said:

It appears indeed to be a multiple fail to call... as I've seen previously on merseyrail threads, they tend to do that to make up time when delayed.
It doesn't look right to me though - more info is required... it was only 3 late, missed 6 stops arriving 5 early at birkenhead central and waited right time departure. Seems strange.

Click to expand...

That's quite typical when Merseyrail are in catch-up mode.
I was on a Chester train this week 5 minutes late at Lime St, 6 at Birkenhead Central, when the conductor announced next stop Hooton.
The train was 4 early there.
75% of the passengers had to get out at Birkenhead Central and use the Ellesmere Port service behind.
They do seem to trigger fast running of Chester trains very early.
This was mid-afternoon.
I guess the theory was it had no chance of keeping time to Chester and back to Liverpool, and it would then have impacted the peak service.

It's funny how they've shifted that way under the present management - 1990s Merseyrail would never, ever skip-stop, even if things had got very late. They very occasionally turned trains short (e.g. at Maghull) but I saw that only once I think. If it ended up 15 minutes late, what you effectively had was a step-up and a cancellation.

Bletchleyite said:

It's funny how they've shifted that way under the present management - 1990s Merseyrail would never, ever skip-stop, even if things had got very late. They very occasionally turned trains short (e.g. at Maghull) but I saw that only once I think. If it ended up 15 minutes late, what you effectively had was a step-up and a cancellation.

Click to expand...

1990s Merseyrail didn't have a timetable so tight on what could be classed as one of there busiest lines that if you go over 4mins late you've no chance of making it up!

jamesst said:

1990s Merseyrail didn't have a timetable so tight on what could be classed as one of there busiest lines that if you go over 4mins late you've no chance of making it up!

Click to expand...

And they were probably not tied to such tight performance related franchise commitments either

800002 said:

First - I think you linked the wrong schedule. That is today's (saturdays) 2200, 2C57 from Chester.
This is the link to Fridays: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C65889/2019/07/19/advanced
(easy one to do, working over midnight, I do it all the time).

Click to expand...

Yep, that’s what happened

800002 said:

It appears indeed to be a multiple fail to call... as I've seen previously on merseyrail threads, they tend to do that to make up time when delayed.
It doesn't look right to me though - more info is required... it was only 3 late, missed 6 stops arriving 5 early at birkenhead central and waited right time departure. Seems strange.

Click to expand...

Yes, I’ve herd of Merseyrail doing that before.

800002 said:

2Y37 - ellsmere port - ellsmere port - is this the one you meant? (again, Friday 19th July)
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y30089/2019/07/19/advanced

Click to expand...

Yep that’s the one, thanks.

Saperstein

as a driver 25 years ago sometimes running normal pattern making say 20-40 seconds recovery per station was the best option as a round trip could recover perhaps 8-12 mins with a quick change ends

announcements and alterations cause delays
for example about 30 years ago was on a vic to west croydon via crystal palace was 20 mins late so fast line stop clapham jct ballham and crystal palace to get in front off the beckenham jct that would give a service to intermediate stations to palace

any way we where so late being off booked platform and people running too and fro to get on board that by the time we stopped at ballham palace norwood juction and west croydon we where 25 late at west croydon so went fast via selhurst and clapham back to vic

where as following the beckenham jct with a normal pattern would place us at west croydon perhaps 18 late quick turn round back at vic perhaps 8-10 late with a 4-7 late departure
any way the point is give people a late running train without alteration you can shave perhaps 20 seconds a station off the journey
a late running train with alterations can add perhaps 40 seconds to a journey per station as people check

They need to look at having a service code for fast from Rock Ferry to Hooton so that if a train is late but not really late, it can miss out the few stops but not end up really early at Birkenhead. It also inconveniences less passengers. There is nothing worse than a stop being cancelled to then watch it go past your station a minute early or bang on time.

@big all Merseyrail can't shave 20 seconds off per station as they only give 30 seconds stopping time as it is. Skipping a few stations helps but you can't miss out 8 stops because you are 3 minutes late. More so when you end up 5 mins early at the next station. Miss out a few stops to catch up but 8 stops for a 3 minute delay is very OTT.

The inward working (2C54) arrived into Chester 7 minutes late, so the decision was made to run non-stop Hooton-Birkenhead Central before the train departed to give traincrew/signaller plenty of time to be advised of the amended pattern.

It looks like the turnaround at Chester was far quicker than expected (less than 2 minutes) but once the decision was made, the channels of telling Network Rail Controller in the control to tell the signaller in Chester to tell the driver would have to be repeated, and sometimes depending on workload, sometimes isn’t possible.

markymark2000 said:

They need to look at having a service code for fast from Rock Ferry to Hooton so that if a train is late but not really late, it can miss out the few stops but not end up really early at Birkenhead. It also inconveniences less passengers. There is nothing worse than a stop being cancelled to then watch it go past your station a minute early or bang on time.

@big all Merseyrail can't shave 20 seconds off per station as they only give 30 seconds stopping time as it is. Skipping a few stations helps but you can't miss out 8 stops because you are 3 minutes late. More so when you end up 5 mins early at the next station. Miss out a few stops to catch up but 8 stops for a 3 minute delay is very OTT.

Click to expand...

dont know what it is now but then it was 20 seconds electric and 30 diesel unless separate arr and dep times where shown
we used to have quite generous coasting board where perhaps 40% was powered and 60% coasting on shorter suburban journeys .