Reading to Oxford - a question.

If this is in the wrong section, apologies.

This is not a one-off issue. Every single Reading to Oxford 'express' service I have been on, since the introduction of Class 800 trains has been the same.

The service is at line speed (125mph) between Reading and Didcot East Junction, from there to Radley (along the Cherwell Valley Line) the train trundles along at a leisurely 30-50mph before picking up a bit of speed from just after Radley, to Oxford.

There was never this problem when Class 165 and Class 43 operated the route - with the journey now taking slightly longer than in the past.

If everything ran to line speed the journey could probably now be done in around 20 minutes on a Class 800. On a Class 165 the journey was 24 minutes and now on a class 800 it is around 26 minutes (if not more).

What is the issue causing this?

There's always a 2Lxx or a 2Mxx stopper departing from Didcot pathed in front of the fast 1Wxx or 1Dxx services. IETs tend to run early quite often, as they are quicker than the HSTs, for which the paths are timed for. Meaning they run a few minutes early catching up to the stopper runs, and chasing yellow signals.

Exactly as @Melancholia has written.
I think it has to run in that order so that people on the stopper can connect into the Cotswold service at Oxford.
I’m quite often on 1W29 and have sat outside Oxford for a good few minutes as the 800 was early and has to wait for the stopper to detrain it’s passengers, get checked by the platform staff and then head ECS to the Carriage Sidings.

If driven at line speed class 800 on Down Main , train will be ahead of time at East Didcot Jn and stopped there to allow train on Up Main to pass .
In practice it does not make sense to go more than 90mph from Reading to Didcot East and approx 60mph from there on to Oxford.
Some diagrams have 30min from Reading to Oxford so even if you travel 45-50mph from Didcot to Oxford you will get there on or ahead of time.

Adding to my previous post, Dec 19 timetable will reduce Reading - Oxford ( and vice versa) timings as far as I know.

It’s frustrating on the down Bristol trains because you almost always get held one signal back from Didcot East Jn whilst the down Oxford is waiting to cross the up main. I’m hoping grade separation will be possible there at some point.

Mintona said:

It’s frustrating on the down Bristol trains because you almost always get held one signal back from Didcot East Jn whilst the down Oxford is waiting to cross the up main. I’m hoping grade separation will be possible there at some point.

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Is that due to out of course working or the actual timetable, not clever if its the latter.

The Planner said:

Is that due to out of course working or the actual timetable, not clever if its the latter.

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Most of it at the moment is due to 80x running in HST timing loads meaning the 80x end up running early

Mark J said:

If this is in the wrong section, apologies.

This is not a one-off issue. Every single Reading to Oxford 'express' service I have been on, since the introduction of Class 800 trains has been the same.

The service is at line speed (125mph) between Reading and Didcot East Junction, from there to Radley (along the Cherwell Valley Line) the train trundles along at a leisurely 30-50mph before picking up a bit of speed from just after Radley, to Oxford.

There was never this problem when Class 165 and Class 43 operated the route - with the journey now taking slightly longer than in the past.

If everything ran to line speed the journey could probably now be done in around 20 minutes on a Class 800. On a Class 165 the journey was 24 minutes and now on a class 800 it is around 26 minutes (if not more).

What is the issue causing this?

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Exactly the issues that Melancholia noted - and I can assure you that the 16.22 from Paddington to Great Malvern trundled along in just the same manner when it was worked by a Class 180 up until the end of 2017 as it does now with an IET.

Part of the blame should probably also go to adjustments in the timing of northbound XC trains. These used to leave Oxford at xx.07 and xx.36 in the early years of the 2tph frequency between Reading and Birmingham but now seem to leave at random times from xx.09 to xx.13 and at xx.39 or xx.40, which has shrunk the window in which the stoppers can leave Didcot behind the XC trains and get into Oxford ahead of the fasts from London and then be emptied before dispatch to the sidings.

From December, most of Cotswold services are moving to the xx.50 or so departure slot from Paddington, XC departures seem to being standardised at xx.10 and xx.39 and the stoppers become the first service through Didcot North junction and due into Oxford 10 or more minutes before the XC services, with the fasts (either terminating or going on to the Cotswold Line) following the XC trains into Oxford.

Whether this will translate into late-running XC trains delaying the trains from Paddington to the Cotswolds remains to be seen but with effectively just one platform available (bi-directional use of the through platforms at Oxford being pretty limited) stops just outside the station probably won't be eliminated any time soon, even if the pathing from Didcot is improved.

Thanks for the responses, that has answered my question rather well.

Yes, I have also experienced (most journeys) a wait at Didcot East Junction waiting for a train to pass on the opposite (up main) track. Regarding grade separation, surely it would have been more practical of had this done before GWML electrification took place. It will now be somewhat more complex (and expensive) to carry out now the OHLE is in place.

Although I have to say it was a bit silly introducing the new IET trains and not amending the scheduling to account for the improvements in journey times. Obviously this will be somewhat amended, come the next timetable change.

To note: The quickest journey time I have experienced between Oxford and Reading was 21 minutes on a Class 165. It was one for the last services of the day coming back, so the Driver must of been in a hurry to clock off.

Mark J said:

Although I have to say it was a bit silly introducing the new IET trains and not amending the scheduling to account for the improvements in journey times. Obviously this will be somewhat amended, come the next timetable change.

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Surely Dec 2019 was the first reasonable opportunity to change the timetable to such an extent anyway; the May change is supposed to be for relatively minor changes. Although the last HSTs finished on long distance services in May, they wouldn’t have wanted to risk any problems if the date had been missed.

swt_passenger said:

Surely Dec 2019 was the first reasonable opportunity to change the timetable to such an extent anyway; the May change is supposed to be for relatively minor changes. Although the last HSTs finished on long distance services in May, they wouldn’t have wanted to risk any problems if the date had been missed.

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The big Great Western Timetable change was originally to be May 2019 to conincide with the last of the trams. To de-risk the change this was deferred to Dec 2019

HamworthyGoods said:

The big Great Western Timetable change was originally to be May 2019 to conincide with the last of the trams. To de-risk the change this was deferred to Dec 2019

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No, it wasn't. The major GWR timetable change was meant to be implemented in December last year. It was moved back by a year, along with lots of changes elsewhere, after the May 2018 timetable debacle on Northern and GTR.