Long distance driving

bramling · 24 Sep 2019

Bletchleyite said:
That, which really does have to be executed textbook-perfectly for maximum enjoyment, is a wonderfully fun and perfectly safe piece of road-based passive "aggression"

(Not really aggression as such, as there's no need to get angry, it's really quite enjoyable - it fits under the same sort of banner as being excruciatingly polite and helpful to somebody insistent on giving you a gobful of abuse)

Although I can see why people might want to do this move, there is an element of risk in doing it if someone else happens to be undertaking the middle-lane-hogger at the same time as one crosses from right to left.

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PeterC · 25 Sep 2019

bramling said:
Although I can see why people might want to do this move, there is an element of risk in doing it if someone else happens to be undertaking the middle-lane-hogger at the same time as one crosses from right to left.

Agree, I only change one lane at a time and re-check mirrors and over my shoulder before the second lane change.

I can understand middle lane hogging when you would otherwise be weaving in and out of lane 1 but never understand why people will sit in lane 2 at 6omph in an otherwise largely empty motorway. (Drive north between the J1 and London Gateway on the M1 after 22:30 and you will regularly see examples)

Bletchleyite · 25 Sep 2019

PeterC said:
Agree, I only change one lane at a time and re-check mirrors and over my shoulder before the second lane change.

Yes, I do too (that's part of "doing it correctly" - the better quality of the manoeuvres, the more enjoyable it is)

Meerkat · 25 Sep 2019

We need some highly publicised prosecutions.
An unmarked police car could find a blatant example in just a few hours. The muppets are so unaware/uncaring the unmarked car could sit behind them for a while filming them, then summons them (fair to give them a flash of the blue lights so they remember why they just got a letter through the post)
Of course please don’t also nick those of us gliding by on the left (though we are more likely to spot the unmarked car)!!

Bletchleyite · 25 Sep 2019

Meerkat said:
We need some highly publicised prosecutions.
An unmarked police car could find a blatant example in just a few hours. The muppets are so unaware/uncaring the unmarked car could sit behind them for a while filming them, then summons them (fair to give them a flash of the blue lights so they remember why they just got a letter through the post)

Yep, agreed.

Of course please don’t also nick those of us gliding by on the left (though we are more likely to spot the unmarked car)!!

Passing on the left isn't strictly illegal, though it could be DWDCAA or dangerous driving if done in an unsafe manner. Generally speaking if you maintain your lane (i.e. don't move left to overtake) it wouldn't be seen as an issue, but if doing it do be aware that the person in the middle lane may well move left without warning (watch their front wheels as you pass to make sure), so it's highly risky to do it on a Smart Motorway where you couldn't move onto the hard shoulder to avoid an accident if they did.

edwin_m · 25 Sep 2019

Bletchleyite said:
Passing on the left isn't strictly illegal, though it could be DWDCAA or dangerous driving if done in an unsafe manner. Generally speaking if you maintain your lane (i.e. don't move left to overtake) it wouldn't be seen as an issue, but if doing it do be aware that the person in the middle lane may well move left without warning (watch their front wheels as you pass to make sure), so it's highly risky to do it on a Smart Motorway where you couldn't move onto the hard shoulder to avoid an accident if they did.

I don't do it very often, but when I do I keep my hand near the horn control.

headshot119 · 25 Sep 2019

PeterC said:
Agree, I only change one lane at a time and re-check mirrors and over my shoulder before the second lane change.

I can understand middle lane hogging when you would otherwise be weaving in and out of lane 1 but never understand why people will sit in lane 2 at 6omph in an otherwise largely empty motorway. (Drive north between the J1 and London Gateway on the M1 after 22:30 and you will regularly see examples)

The M6 north of junction 32 (Blackpool) is just as bad for it, especially late evenings, early mornings.

EssexGonzo · 25 Sep 2019

edwin_m said:
I don't think they really make much difference unless the motorway is sufficiently crowded that queues build up behind the hogger and can't flow freely through to the right, but not so crowded that there is no space in the lane to the left for the hogger to move into.

They make a HUGE difference. I drive the M25, M1 and M6 regularly and > 50% of the time, delays in lanes 3 or 4 are caused by underused lanes 1 and 2. Lane discipline is generally terrible.

edwin_m said:
I don't do it very often, but when I do I keep my hand near the horn control.

I do it often, but only after observing the car(s) in front for a few seconds. And then I generally nail the accelerator to get the undertake over quickly. On motorways, I generally drive with dipped headlights on as well to make me hard to miss!

I don't do the sweeping pointedly back into the other lane, though. Only mentally!

edwin_m · 25 Sep 2019

EssexGonzo said:
They make a HUGE difference. I drive the M25, M1 and M6 regularly and > 50% of the time, delays in lanes 3 or 4 are caused by underused lanes 1 and 2. Lane discipline is generally terrible.

Which is actually agreeing with what I said. There are queues building up behind and to the right of the hogger and space for them to move leftwards.

edwin_m · 25 Sep 2019

EssexGonzo said:
I do it often, but only after observing the car(s) in front for a few seconds. And then I generally nail the accelerator to get the undertake over quickly.

By accelerating aren't you putting yourself at risk of collision because the other driver looks and sees you well behind (assuming not in their blind spot) but by the time they move over you're in the way?

Bald Rick · 25 Sep 2019

edwin_m said:
By accelerating aren't you putting yourself at risk of collision because the other driver looks and sees you well behind (assuming not in their blind spot) but by the time they move over you're in the way?

I hang back just behind their blind spot, make sure they aren’t moving lane, gun it through (watching their front wheel angle) and out the other end. If they are on their phone (which is the case about 30% of the time) they get a full blast of the horn.

There’s times on the M1 where lanes 3 and 4 are a steady stream of traffic, and lane 1 is empty for at least half a mile in front.

gg1 · 25 Sep 2019

Meerkat said:
Tailgating is generally caused by lane hogging.

Complete and utter b*******!

Tailgating is caused by morons who are angered by people who don't drive at excessive speed. I regularly get tailgated on single lane roads or when overtaking on dual carriageways/motorways while driving at or slightly above the speed limit, and yes I do pull over as soon as I'm past the slower car when overtaking.

Lane hoggers are annoying but tailgaters are in a whole different class of idiocy.

Bletchleyite · 25 Sep 2019

gg1 said:
Complete and utter b*******!

Tailgating is caused by morons who are angered by people who don't drive at excessive speed. I regularly get tailgated on single lane roads or when overtaking on dual carriageways/motorways while driving at or slightly above the speed limit, and yes I do pull over as soon as I'm past the slower car when overtaking.

Lane hoggers are annoying but tailgaters are in a whole different class of idiocy.

Completely agreed. The poor behaviour of one driver is not an excuse for poor behaviour by another driver. It simply means two people are in the wrong rather than one, and tailgating is dangerous, whereas middle-lane hogging is merely an irritant.

There is no valid reason whatsoever under any circumstances to wilfully drive closer to the car in front than the recommendations in the Highway Code. And if someone cuts in and reduces that distance, simply lift your right foot and drop back to recreate that space.

Meerkat · 25 Sep 2019

If I am not right behind another car then I don’t mind being tailgated - I then know the car behind really wants to go past so I will drop in and let them go.
It’s really annoying if you think someone wants to overtake so you drop in a gap and ease off but then they just sit in your blind spot and block you getting out again before you reach the next car.
In Germany they used to indicate to show they wanted to overtake, which imo is a polite way of doing things, but I think it has been banned now.

edwin_m · 25 Sep 2019

Meerkat said:
If I am not right behind another car then I don’t mind being tailgated - I then know the car behind really wants to go past so I will drop in and let them go.
It’s really annoying if you think someone wants to overtake so you drop in a gap and ease off but then they just sit in your blind spot and block you getting out again before you reach the next car.
In Germany they used to indicate to show they wanted to overtake, which imo is a polite way of doing things, but I think it has been banned now.

If you keep a lookout in the mirror it's usually obvious when someone approaches quickly that they want to get past. You may be OK with tailgating but I find it incredibly intimidating.

Worst one I had was in a long 50mph roadworks with narrow lanes where HGVs had to straddle lanes 1 and 2. Was being pushed by someone straddling who would gain absolutely nothing by getting past as everyone else was doing the same speed as me - and the only way he would have got past was if I had gone into lane 3 and let him undertake. In the end I risked the average speed camera to put a few cars between us so he became someone else's problem.

Meerkat · 25 Sep 2019

Happens most often when the car in front of me finds a long enough gap they are happy to drop into, making me front of the line. Person behind was at a respectable distance as they could see I couldn’t speed up, but now I am front they either want me to speed up or move over (which I am happy to do - I am not the police and it is just rude to hold someone up unnecessarily)

I also find people often drift up behind you but are then happy to sit behind, possibly as they are following the principle of “ don’t be faster than everyone else”.

Bletchleyite · 25 Sep 2019

Meerkat said:
If I am not right behind another car then I don’t mind being tailgated

I do. It puts me at unnecessary risk. It means that if I have to brake I WILL be crashed into. It might kill me. All because someone feels their journey is more important than my life.

Flash your lights if you really must; I'll simply ignore it but it might make you feel better. But do NOT enter my safety margin.

If anything needs prosecuting as DWDCAA, this does.

PeterC · 25 Sep 2019

The really weird tailgaters are the ones that are practically climbing up your exhaust pipe in lane 1 when there is plenty of room to overtake. Not so common but you do come accross them occasionally.

Then there is the more common one one who does the same in lane 2 and then sits about level with your filler cap until you catch up with the lorry or caravan that was a quarter mile ahead.

Bald Rick · 25 Sep 2019

PeterC said:
The really weird tailgaters are the ones that are practically climbing up your exhaust pipe in lane 1 when there is plenty of room to overtake. Not so common but you do come accross them occasionally.

Then there is the more common one one who does the same in lane 2 and then sits about level with your filler cap until you catch up with the lorry or caravan that was a quarter mile ahead.

The first type are tightwads trying to save fuel by being in your slipstream. Often see it happen behind Artics. Particularly in Yorkshire for some reason.

PeterC · 25 Sep 2019

EssexGonzo said:
They make a HUGE difference. I drive the M25, M1 and M6 regularly and > 50% of the time, delays in lanes 3 or 4 are caused by underused lanes 1 and 2. Lane discipline is generally terrible.

I do it often, but only after observing the car(s) in front for a few seconds. And then I generally nail the accelerator to get the undertake over quickly. On motorways, I generally drive with dipped headlights on as well to make me hard to miss!

I don't do the sweeping pointedly back into the other lane, though. Only mentally!

Of course using lane 1 on the M25 isn't exactly encouraged by the regular lane drops. In the peak, to stay on the motorway it is safest to move over before traffic starts bunching due to the constriction. Not the most efficient use of space but a lane change in fast moving, closely spaced traffic is potentially a dangerous manouvre.

HOOVER29 · 25 Sep 2019

My biggest beef is with the morons that sit on your backside for mile after mile even if it’s clear to pass, then when they finally do fly past they then slow down to below your speed.
Why?

HOOVER29 · 25 Sep 2019

Bald Rick said:
The first type are tightwads trying to save fuel by being in your slipstream. Often see it happen behind Artics. Particularly in Yorkshire for some reason.

Blimey I thought I was the only one who had noticed that.
M62 & M18 is a tight ball ache for it.

bramling · 26 Sep 2019

HOOVER29 said:
My biggest beef is with the morons that sit on your backside for mile after mile even if it’s clear to pass, then when they finally do fly past they then slow down to below your speed.
Why?

In response to the why question, and reading through a lot of the rest of this thread, one can’t help but form a conclusion that a proportion of people are simply plain dumb...

HOOVER29 · 26 Sep 2019

bramling said:
In response to the why question, and reading through a lot of the rest of this thread, one can’t help but form a conclusion that a proportion of people are simply plain dumb...

That’s about nailed it!

sprunt · 26 Sep 2019

Bald Rick said:
The first type are tightwads trying to save fuel by being in your slipstream.

People actually do this on the roads? How much difference does it make to fuel usage in percentage terms - more than a very tiny amount?

Bletchleyite · 26 Sep 2019

HOOVER29 said:
My biggest beef is with the morons that sit on your backside for mile after mile even if it’s clear to pass, then when they finally do fly past they then slow down to below your speed.
Why?

Or their friends who speed up when you try to overtake, and slow down again if you give up and pull back in. Wilfully doing this should be prosecuted as dangerous driving, as overtakes pose risk (even on a multi-lane road) wilfully making them take longer is dangerous.

Lucan · 26 Sep 2019

Bald Rick said:
The first type are tightwads trying to save fuel by being in your slipstream.

sprunt said:
People actually do this on the roads? How much difference does it make to fuel usage in percentage terms - more than a very tiny amount?

I own up to having done this on long journeys (mostly on the A303) when I first had a car and was much poorer, years ago. I was not that close (further away than many cars to each other on M-ways these days), and speeds were lower then anyway. I'm afraid to say it did make a difference : I could ease off the accelerator pedal noticably when I got within their air pocket.

No way I'd do it these days.

Bletchleyite · 26 Sep 2019

Lucan said:
I own up to having done this on long journeys (mostly on the A303) when I first had a car and was much poorer, years ago. I was not that close (further away than many cars to each other on M-ways these days), and speeds were lower then anyway. I'm afraid to say it did make a difference : I could ease off the accelerator pedal noticably when I got within their air pocket.

No way I'd do it these days.

Good.

To anyone who does, please don't do it without asking the prior consent of the driver in front, which in my case would never be forthcoming even if there was a way to do so.

You do not get to decrease my safety in order to save yourself money. That is a despicably selfish act.

Bald Rick · 26 Sep 2019

sprunt said:
People actually do this on the roads? How much difference does it make to fuel usage in percentage terms - more than a very tiny amount?

About 10% I reckon, more behind something punching a big hole in the air like an artic. Note I have NOT done this, but I know from cycling it is a lot, lot easier when you are close into someone’s slipstream above about 20mph.

EssexGonzo · 26 Sep 2019

Lads, lads, lads.......why don't we all shake hands and agree that we're all chuffing excellent drivers who exhibit none of the negative and shocking characteristics and behaviours described in this thread? The degree of inferred/implied oneupmanship is beginning to take the edge of our clearly superior driving prowess and I for one am willing to accept that the idiots are elsewhere.

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