Will TfW meet the 1/1/2020 PRM deadline?

Brissle Girl · 8 Oct 2019

anamyd said:
it's going against the spec of the class. Lino flooring is incorrect for a 153. ATW (and FGW / GWR) put their carpet in the 153s, following the spec of the class, so why did TfW go with incorrect flooring...?

Says who? Did the manufacturer specify that the unit could only run with carpet throughout its entire life? Or was there a commitment given by the ROSCOs when they acquired the stock from BR that carpet must be provided. If not then I think you’re making it up. They had carpet at outset and until now no operator has felt the need to change it. That’s all there is to it. A bit like my front door has been white since the house was built, but that doesn’t mean I can’t paint it any other colour.

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krus_aragon · 8 Oct 2019

anamyd said:
it's going against the spec of the class. Lino flooring is incorrect for a 153. ATW (and FGW / GWR) put their carpet in the 153s, following the spec of the class, so why did TfW go with incorrect flooring...?

Within TfW's fleet, the 153s seem to be spiritual siblings to the 150s: they'll be seen on the same selection of routes, etc., but usually (hopefully) where passenger numbers are lower. (I can't think of a route a 153 will operate that isn't also operated by 150s.) Given the 150s are all lino-floored, it doesn't feel that odd to me.

craigybagel said:
What makes you say that? There are more 153s arriving then TfW currently have. And that said, some of the routes currently run by 153s (and some of those expected to be getting them soon) don't require 59 seats anyway.

Betws-y-coed in the middle of November, for example.

Tomos y Tanc · 8 Oct 2019

People get worked up over the strangest things! It looks very smart to me.

The carpet v lino business is a nonsense. You can prefer one or the other but to pretend there's some sort of Biblical rule that declares that one or other is 'right' or 'wrong' for a particular class is just made up bull. TOCs adapt units over time as they see fit. Changing the flooring is no different from changing the livery or the seat layout.

S-Bahn · 8 Oct 2019

If I was a train manufacturer I'd put hard wearing lino down on all trains, purely for the ease of cleaning.

I don't see the benefit of carpets on a train. They will get worn and dirty quickly on any route.

It's the same reason many people are removing their carpets and using tiled/laminate flooring in their homes.

anamyd · 8 Oct 2019

Brissle Girl said:
Says who? Did the manufacturer specify that the unit could only run with carpet throughout its entire life? Or was there a commitment given by the ROSCOs when they acquired the stock from BR that carpet must be provided. If not then I think you’re making it up. They had carpet at outset and until now no operator has felt the need to change it. That’s all there is to it. A bit like my front door has been white since the house was built, but that doesn’t mean I can’t paint it any other colour.

OK sorry for not actually answering your questions but I get what you're saying, I'm kind of getting over it now but wondering if it was some kind of oversight

anamyd · 8 Oct 2019

S-Bahn said:
If I was a train manufacturer I'd put hard wearing lino down on all trains, purely for the ease of cleaning.

I don't see the benefit of carpets on a train. They will get worn and dirty quickly on any route.

It's the same reason many people are removing their carpets and using tiled/laminate flooring in their homes.

That's true... Thankfully they aren't doing it to 175s (and then 158s) though. That would be totally inappropriate

anamyd · 8 Oct 2019

Tomos y Tanc said:
People get worked up over the strangest things! It looks very smart to me.

The carpet v lino business is a nonsense. You can prefer one or the other but to pretend there's some sort of Biblical rule that declares that one or other is 'right' or 'wrong' for a particular class is just made up bull. TOCs adapt units over time as they see fit. Changing the flooring is no different from changing the livery or the seat layout.

I do like the refurb overall, but I can't help but thinking the flooring fitted was an oversight. At least they're not doing it on 175s (and then 158s) where it would be totally inappropriate.

anamyd · 8 Oct 2019

krus_aragon said:
Within TfW's fleet, the 153s seem to be spiritual siblings to the 150s: they'll be seen on the same selection of routes, etc., but usually (hopefully) where passenger numbers are lower. (I can't think of a route a 153 will operate that isn't also operated by 150s.) Given the 150s are all lino-floored, it doesn't feel that odd to me.

Betws-y-coed in the middle of November, for example.

OK I'm getting it, I'm just grateful that they're not doing it to 175s (and then 158s) where it would be totally inappropriate

S-Bahn · 8 Oct 2019

anamyd said:
That's true... Thankfully they aren't doing it to 175s (and then 158s) though. That would be totally inappropriate

Why would it be inappropriate? Lino is much easier to keep clean and no passenger will refuse to use the train if it doesn't have a carpet.

Meerkat · 8 Oct 2019

Lino looks cheap and nasty, and presumably makes the train noisier.
Does your car have lino?

S-Bahn · 8 Oct 2019

Meerkat said:
Lino looks cheap and nasty, and presumably makes the train noisier.
Does your car have lino?

No, but it wouldn't bother me if it did. I have to put down rubber mats to keep the carpet dry and clean.

Brissle Girl · 8 Oct 2019

My car doesn’t have several hundred people tramping through it every day. And even then it gets quite grubby quickly.

krus_aragon · 8 Oct 2019

anamyd said:
I'm just grateful that they're not doing it to 175s (and then 158s) where it would be totally inappropriate

I'll agree with you there.

anamyd · 8 Oct 2019

S-Bahn said:
Why would it be inappropriate? Lino is much easier to keep clean and no passenger will refuse to use the train if it doesn't have a carpet.

True, but they're supposed to be comfortable / plush / "squishy" trains and the carpeted flooring is all part of that. Starting to accept it's not nearly as important for something like a 153, so TfW seemed to have made the right decision there really

anamyd · 10 Oct 2019

As of recently I've started seeing "D" prefixes on unit running numbers e.g. D150255 and D142082 - have these (and more) units received PRM derogations / dispensations and the "D"s are indicating these...?

Cardiff123 · 10 Oct 2019

anamyd said:
As of recently I've started seeing "D" prefixes on unit running numbers e.g. D150255 and D142082 - have these (and more) units received PRM derogations / dispensations and the "D"s are indicating these...?

You've seen the "D" on the front of the train before the unit number?

anamyd · 10 Oct 2019

Cardiff123 said:
You've seen the "D" on the front of the train before the unit number?

Indeed! On 150255 in person and on 142082 in a video - does this mean dispensations / derogations for PRM non-compliance have been granted...?

anamyd · 14 Oct 2019

@6Gtraincrew do you know about the above...?

6Gtraincrew · 15 Oct 2019

anamyd said:
@6Gtraincrew do you know about the above...?

I've not noticed any units having a d prefix and I've no idea why they would have

Jacob Didcote · 15 Oct 2019

We are going back to pre-TOPS :lol:

anamyd · 15 Oct 2019

6Gtraincrew said:
I've not noticed any units having a d prefix and I've no idea why they would have

Surprised you haven't seen any yet

anamyd · 15 Oct 2019

Jacob Didcote said:
We are going back to pre-TOPS

Neptune · 15 Oct 2019

Nowhere specifies that any particular unit has to have any particular kind of flooring. The Northern 153/155 fleet have had Lino since refurbishment well over a decade ago. Lino is harder wearing and easier to clean so to me should be on every train. Carpet just holds filth, gets threadbare and requires replacing regularly (not that that happens) and is totally unnecessary on public transport.

Meerkat · 15 Oct 2019

Neptune said:
Nowhere specifies that any particular unit has to have any particular kind of flooring. The Northern 153/155 fleet have had Lino since refurbishment well over a decade ago. Lino is harder wearing and easier to clean so to me should be on every train. Carpet just holds filth, gets threadbare and requires replacing regularly (not that that happens) and is totally unnecessary on public transport.

True...if you want public transport to be the standard of public toilets. If you want to attract non commuters you need a rather better product.

anamyd · 15 Oct 2019

Meerkat said:
True...if you want public transport to be the standard of public toilets. If you want to attract non commuters you need a rather better product.

What are you in favour of...? I'm not clear...

Meerkat · 16 Oct 2019

anamyd said:
What are you in favour of...? I'm not clear...

I was responding to ‘all trains should have lino’. I think that is ridiculous for Intercity or even regional trains.

Brissle Girl · 16 Oct 2019

Meanwhile, it's being reported that TfW has confirmed that the 230s will not be available this year.

http://www.wrexham.com/news/no-new-...uth-wales-and-replaced-with-scuds-175552.html

Deeside.com has now been told the D-Trains wont come into service until next year as TfW wants to make sure they are “fully reliable when they enter service.”

Curiously they haven't picked up on the fact that the trains will only have lino.

Cambrian359 · 16 Oct 2019

Brissle Girl said:
Meanwhile, it's being reported that TfW has confirmed that the 230s will not be available this year.

http://www.wrexham.com/news/no-new-...uth-wales-and-replaced-with-scuds-175552.html

Deeside.com has now been told the D-Trains wont come into service until next year as TfW wants to make sure they are “fully reliable when they enter service.”

Curiously they haven't picked up on the fact that the trains will only have lino.

If they do couple the 153s together as claimed in the article and use the refurbished units then it can’t be to bad a thing for passengers on the Bidston line surely?

anamyd · 16 Oct 2019

Meerkat said:
I was responding to ‘all trains should have lino’. I think that is ridiculous for Intercity or even regional trains.

I agree, I'm glad the refurbed 175s are getting carpet

anamyd · 16 Oct 2019

Brissle Girl said:
Meanwhile, it's being reported that TfW has confirmed that the 230s will not be available this year.

http://www.wrexham.com/news/no-new-...uth-wales-and-replaced-with-scuds-175552.html

Deeside.com has now been told the D-Trains wont come into service until next year as TfW wants to make sure they are “fully reliable when they enter service.”

Curiously they haven't picked up on the fact that the trains will only have lino.

Probably because they didn't exactly have carpet with London Underground :lol:

Will TfW meet the 1/1/2020 PRM deadline?

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