Warrington West - only two trains an hour.

Tetchytyke · 7 Nov 2019

Grumpy Git said:
The proposed HS2 "loop" around Tatton Park being a very good example.

That's what being a Tory marginal gets you! If you're a safe Labour seat you get Pacers.

The whole HS2 is a big scam, but that's another argument for another thread.

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Grumpy Git · 7 Nov 2019

Tetchytyke said:
That's what being a Tory marginal gets you! If you're a safe Labour seat you get Pacers.

The whole HS2 is a big scam, but that's another argument for another thread.

This big HS2 diversion around Tatton is nothing more than a modern day version of the Haddon Hall tunnel on the old LMS Midland line north of Rowsley

stephen rp · 8 Nov 2019

Djgr said:
Given that the CLC (i.e. Liverpool Lime Street to Manchester Oxford Road via Warrington Central) even on its good days is teetering on the edge of collapse, the only way a new station should have been agreed to is on a one in/one out basis in terms of service provision.
To have promised anything else is recklessly irresponsible.

They retimed the 19 and 22 departures from Lime Street to depart 3 mins earlier - and (if on time) they now stand at Central for 3 minutes waiting time because they don't stop at Warrington West (for which times are shown now for those trains on realtimetrains as "service stop unadvertised").

Djgr · 8 Nov 2019

stephen rp said:
They retimed the 19 and 22 departures from Lime Street to depart 3 mins earlier - and (if on time) they now stand at Central for 3 minutes waiting time because they don't stop at Warrington West (for which times are shown now for those trains on realtimetrains as "service stop unadvertised").

The key phrase here is "if on time"!

stephen rp · 8 Nov 2019

Djgr said:
The key phrase here is "if on time"!

Most trains leave Lime St on time. It's leaving Manchester that's less reliable. The 12 past at Oxford Road (from the Airport) will call at WAW but the 16 past will not (and many may use that if the 12 is late or overcrowded);off the 16 past they could always walk back from Sankey, so long as no conductor is brave enough to charge them excess. (I don't think we know yet whether WAW fares will be based on Sankey or "Warrington Stations".)

Kite159 · 8 Nov 2019

stephen rp said:
Most trains leave Lime St on time. It's leaving Manchester that's less reliable. The 12 past at Oxford Road (from the Airport) will call at WAW but the 16 past will not (and many may use that if the 12 is late or overcrowded);off the 16 past they could always walk back from Sankey, so long as no conductor is brave enough to charge them excess. (I don't think we know yet whether WAW fares will be based on Sankey or "Warrington Stations".)

Doesn't Sankey get reduced to a token service from December when the new station opens?

stephen rp · 8 Nov 2019

It does, and the trains that call there will not call at WAW.

DarloRich · 8 Nov 2019

158756 said:
how does a basic station cost £20m?

How much do you think it should cost and why?

stephen rp said:
"if we pay for this station, what guarantee do we have that you will provide any trains?"

None.

Starmill said:
As a result, the benefits will be much lower now, but we have spent all of the same taxpayers money on building it.

Disagree - the delivery of benefits has been elongated. We cant know on the basis of information presented that the benefits to be delivered have been reduced.

stephen rp said:
Residents will feel cheated. One I know has already called NR "thieves" (obtaining money by deception). It really is scandalous - build us a station (all costs at your risk) but we will not honour the franchise commitment.

this is a silly post

Grumpy Git said:
I cannot fathom why infrastructure in the UK always seems to cost at least half as much again as would be the case in other countries. To many vested interests with a finger in the pie methinks?

This is not true.

Djgr · 8 Nov 2019

stephen rp said:
It does, and the trains that call there will not call at WAW.

If I look at Northern's latest performance figures for month up to 12 October 2019 and assuming that this line is classified within Merseyrail City then Arriving within 5 mins is 65.7% and Cancellations 10.5%.

However you spin this (and yes I am continually told on this forum that it is everyone's fault but Northern) this is truly appalling performance and the whole current timetable should probably be thrown in the bin.

Grumpy Git · 8 Nov 2019

I'm currently on the delayed 18:50 Manchester Airport to Lime Street, (195 107 for anyone interested). It was held up at Warrington Central on the inbound journey due to a broken down train at Trafford Park according to the guard.

The TPE and Northern platform staff at Manchester Airport were blaming all the delays on flooding at Sheffield.

To be fair they were getting everything through Castlefield smartish though.

childwallblues · 8 Nov 2019

Greybeard33 said:
The regular commuters from Warrington, Birchwood, Widnes and South Parkway want to retain the semi-fast services to Manchester and Liverpool, not have them replaced by an all shacks crawl.

I think the best near term solution would be to split the stoppers at Warrington Central, so that the eastern and western halves could each provide a 2tph clockface timetable at all stations without delaying the semi-fasts. It would require additional diagrams, but there would be a substantial uplift in patronage from the improved frequencies. Particularly at the Greater Manchester stations that currently only get 1tp2h.

I believe there are sidings east of Warrington Central that can be used for layovers.

Totally agree with y0u. The 0816 Liv-MIA is now a 3 car 195 on most days and is normally full and standing on most days when leaving Lime Street. On Tuesday ths week the 195s on the service were formed of 2, 3 and 4 cars. Th service is already very full without putting anothe stop in it. The removat of the fast airport service in May over Chat Moss means that everybody for the Airport now uses the CLC service.

kieron · 8 Nov 2019

Tetchytyke said:
That's what being a Tory marginal gets you! If you're a safe Labour seat you get Pacers.

There are a few marginal seats in Cheshire (mostly Labour marginals now, I think), but Tatton had a 30% majority at the last election. The number of rich Conservative supporters in the area and the national profile of Tatton Park itself may have had more to do with the route choice.

They may complete a boundary review before HS2 starts construction there, but there's no point in a politician thinking that far ahead when so much can change so quickly.

HS2 isn't going to make Warrington West a good way to spend £20 million, though, whatever happens with it.

Agent_Squash · 9 Nov 2019

Tetchytyke said:
That's what being a Tory marginal gets you! If you're a safe Labour seat you get Pacers.

The whole HS2 is a big scam, but that's another argument for another thread.

Osborne used to represent Tatton. It was hardly a marginal when HS2 was being planned.

Grumpy Git · 9 Nov 2019

Hmm, Osborne or McVey, tough choice for child catcher in chief.

stephen rp · 22 Nov 2019

Apparently Northern, having put three trains an hour in the franchise bid, objected to the Network Change to run three trains an hour.

Djgr · 22 Nov 2019

stephen rp said:
Apparently Northern, having put three trains an hour in the franchise bid, objected to the Network Change to run three trains an hour.

I think they have finally realised that their franchise bid is not achievable and they don't want to make the hole that they are in even deeper.

jfollows · 22 Nov 2019

kieron said:
There are a few marginal seats in Cheshire (mostly Labour marginals now, I think), but Tatton had a 30% majority at the last election.

Tatton is about the 100th safest Tory seat (for example, https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/orderedseats.html has it surprising low at 168th. safest at the moment), compared to seats down south there is a solid Labour vote and this may arise from former council estates dotted around the area, even including Alderley Edge.
George Osborne and Esther McVey are totally different types of Tory, in my opinion. The former is "metropolitan liberal" and supported gay marriage for example. The latter most definitely does not. George Osborne made changes to the pension system which were life-changingly positive to me. Nothing Esther McVey has done gets my approval, although I see reports that she's been a "good constituency MP" since 2017.

Xenophon PCDGS · 22 Nov 2019

jfollows said:
Nothing Esther McVey has done gets my approval, although I see reports that she's been a "good constituency MP" since 2017.

The first and second parts of your sentence above seem somewhat at odds with each other.

jfollows · 22 Nov 2019

Xenophon PCDGS said:
The first and second parts of your sentence above seem somewhat at odds with each other.

Well, I don't personally approve of what she's done for the constituency, whereas some others apparently do. They also "complained" about a perceived lack of attention in this area by George Osborne, which I did not agree with, he was always attentive to my requests.

Djgr · 22 Nov 2019

Xenophon PCDGS said:
The first and second parts of your sentence above seem somewhat at odds with each other.

Indeed! Though I think Wirral West were pleased to get shot of.

Warrington West - only two trains an hour.

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