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Passenger fined after having ‘one foot’ in first class.
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james_the_xv
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While technically against the rules, could have been handled better.
We don't get the full story though. If she refused to move down the train when asked by the ticket inspector (who told her there was room) then that's a different kettle of fish.
We don't get the full story though. If she refused to move down the train when asked by the ticket inspector (who told her there was room) then that's a different kettle of fish.
One of the eyewitnesses said the train and corridors were packed and no one could move.
But yet RPI's could get down the train? As ever with these newspaper stories we only ever get half truths and hearsay.
You don’t know if RPIs got on at first class deliberately (or maybe you do !)? I read it and assumed she was stood in the 1st class vestibule in the middle of first class. Presumably to avoid the regular standard crush leadings. And TBH, I think I would have been cynical about being told there was room further down as well...
But as said, only one side of story here ...
But as said, only one side of story here ...
theblackwatch
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Train companies don't issue fines - they are done by courts! If they can't get that right, how accurate is the rest of the story?
iphone76
Member
GA 1st class is only in one area directly behind the driver, so there is no middle vestibule area like on the 321s operated out of Euston and formerly Kings Cross.
Y Ddraig Coch
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Several witness statements...… all in her favour, I would suggest this will be withdrawn.... as "a goodwill gesture" obviously.
Which makes me wonder how someone can take an unobstructed picture from a few rows back.
That foot was having a much more enjoyable journey than the other one until this happened.
the picture (showing an unobstructed aisle for a couple of rows of standard class) shows the RPI and alleged offender standing in a vestibule that gives access to both standard and 1st class, with the door to 1st closed.
So something doesn't add up?
So something doesn't add up?
While watching the Channel 5 programme about TFL revenue protection I was disappointed to hear one of the inspectors telling a passenger he would “issue a penalty fine”. I appreciate that the terms are often used interchangeably by the public but those who are issuing penalty fares really should know better. Things like that don’t help in confrontational situations.
The dictionary definition of a fine is 'something that is paid for not following a rule or law'. Nowhere does it say it has to be issued by a court. Whilst the legal definition may be different it is not unreasonable to use a dictionary definition to describe something especially in a newspaper that is aimed at the general population not at the legal profession.
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Bantamzen
Established Member
Its the Daily Mail, nothing ever adds up in that sorry excuse of a newspaper.
Minor point of pedantry, but the only quote from a bystander that uses the word “foot” in that Mail article is saying she was stood “one foot inside first class” rather than “with one foot inside first class” which isn’t quite the same thing. Bloody Daily Mail can’t even get its rabble rousing stories right
I agree, Greater Anglia themselves have new on train announcements which refer to levying fines if you don’t have the right ticket!
And in respect of this particular issue one irony is that GA were planning to abolish First Class on all services except those on the Norwich hauled from this December in advance of the new trains arriving. The trains are late and the journey planners still show 1st class from the December timetable change and booking sites continue to allow purchase First class tickets!
It's clear there need to be more rules to balance passengers rights versus company rights to make cash. There is a peverse incentive for TOCs that offer 1st class to do nothing (or worse) for overcrowded Standard passengers, knowing that it will drive 1st sales.
Certainly, having a 1st class compartment on a train so crowded people can't even move should be unlawful.
A rule that says once you reach >25% standing passengers 1st must be declassified for the whole remaining route would be sensible. Following that, trains which are consistently overcrowded should be barred from 1st class tickets sales entirely.
This would mean there would be an incentive for TOCs to ensure a reasonable level of service is provided for all.
Certainly, having a 1st class compartment on a train so crowded people can't even move should be unlawful.
A rule that says once you reach >25% standing passengers 1st must be declassified for the whole remaining route would be sensible. Following that, trains which are consistently overcrowded should be barred from 1st class tickets sales entirely.
This would mean there would be an incentive for TOCs to ensure a reasonable level of service is provided for all.
Kendalian
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The relevant statute in English Law is the Bill of Rights Act 1689. A "fine" can only be imposed by a court of law, after the defendant has either pleaded guilty or been convicted
duffield
Established Member
It's not really pedantry, that 'minor point' puts quite a different light on it. If you are one foot *in length* inside 1st class, you are *in* 1st class, no doubt about it.
theblackwatch
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Certainly that was very poor of the staff member. It is a shame more people aren't clued up and could have responded that only courts can issue fines. Mind you, that could have resulted in a claim that the person was being argumentative and talking aggressively...
On the subject of reporting and hearing both sides of the story, last week in Liverpools 'Echo" was a story in which an Arriva Bus Driver refused a young girl on her way to school for being short of her fare. Told her to get off. The young girl suffers severe anxiety and the parents wrote in' fuming' demanding a written apology from the driver.
Earlier this week a small snippet appeared in the same paper about 20pages in, saying Arriva had investigated, found that the driver had followed procedures by offerering the girl a different ticket and she declined then volunteered to get off the bus of her own accord.
Never believe what you read or hear on news, unless you're there to see it in person!
https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/schoolgirl-ordered-bus-being-10p-17206842
Earlier this week a small snippet appeared in the same paper about 20pages in, saying Arriva had investigated, found that the driver had followed procedures by offerering the girl a different ticket and she declined then volunteered to get off the bus of her own accord.
Never believe what you read or hear on news, unless you're there to see it in person!
https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/schoolgirl-ordered-bus-being-10p-17206842
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Panupreset
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Genuine story. Reported by several local papers in Essex, no doubt Daily Mail picked it up from there.
Been an atrocious couple of weeks on the GEML for punctuality and disruption. To target someone for this in light of the current state of the service really is embarrassing.
Been an atrocious couple of weeks on the GEML for punctuality and disruption. To target someone for this in light of the current state of the service really is embarrassing.
That sums up the Daily Mail perfectly!! The Channel 5 of newspapers out to provoke and raise blood pressure everywhere. Wasn't it Virgin who tried to ban the paper being handed out on it's trains?
Mitchell Hurd
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I've never heard such a ridiculous thing in all my life - one foot in the First Class compartment? Sorry but this sounds like the inspector was nit picking here. Yes there have to be rules but c'mon.
I'm not sure when this was but I was on a CrossCountry Voyager like 2 years ago and one of the doors in Coach C was out of order so the next one was in Coach A. I only just remembered not long before arriving into Oxford. If that ever happens and I'm moaned at then I'd be tempted to complain.
I'm not sure when this was but I was on a CrossCountry Voyager like 2 years ago and one of the doors in Coach C was out of order so the next one was in Coach A. I only just remembered not long before arriving into Oxford. If that ever happens and I'm moaned at then I'd be tempted to complain.
Llanigraham
On Moderation
Can I suggest you read the whole of this thread; it has been shown that it was not a single foot inside, but that she was completely inside the 1st Class area, and that there were adequate seats in 2nd Class.
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