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The 2019 General Election Result and Aftermath

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DerekC

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The boomers are such a huge demographic mass it's really hard to outvote them, as we saw in the referendum itself. 50 years of Thatcherism ties in nicely with the 50 years they've had the vote. Before they had the vote politics was more centrist; one would hope that as their numbers decrease, we'll move away from the MEMEME politics of the boomers.

As a "boomer" (horrible term) myself I really object to generalisations like that. The gloom I feel today is very similar to that I felt in 1979. Most of my "boomer" friends vote Lib Dem or Labour and even the Tory ones hate Boris. Don't characterise any generation or group of people as all the same and not worth consideration. If you knew a bit more about Thatcher you would realise that "MEMEME" is a product of Thatcherism, not its cause.
 

Starmill

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Not enough, though. I think the SNP would do well to bide their time until they reckon at least 60% of people would vote yes.
This result plays well for that - they can turn the independence debate into a sore, and blame everything that goes wrong on the Conservative Party, including that the referendum isn't legally being permitted. They make every single issue about independence, and give independence as the only way out from the rule of the English Conservative Party. They'll have plenty of time to do so with no legal referendum taking place. Support for independence could easily be at 60% two years from now, with very little SNP effort, if they just keep banging the same drum.
 

Busaholic

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I think the aftermath will be two things:

1. Labour, or some important parts of it, is currently in denial. If they are to have any chance, Corbyn must go now and his replacement must be capable of moulding Labour into a more appealing party to large numbers of voters. But this has been obvious to many looking from the outside for years now, and it still hasn't made Labour make the necessary changes.

2. "Get Brexit Done" will turn out to be a huge lie. But Boris Johnson has until 2024 to get us out of the EU, and the "transition arrangement" will be extended until then without much difficulty. The promise of completing this in 2020 was only for yesterday's voters. Today's euphoria of relative certainty on where we're going and how will shortly be replaced by continuing doubt. But at least it's now clear where our final destination will be, even if the path to it isn't.

I assume the Fixed Term Parliaments Act will be repealed, and hope that it is. Meaning that the next election will not be set for December 2024, and more probably will take place in summer 2024 at a time of the government's choosing, as used to be the practice.

We will also need a full review of parliamentary boundaries, and I hope that this will be based on 650 seats. The attempt to reduce the number of seats to 600 was an unnecessary mistake initiated by the 2010 government, and I hope it's quietly forgotten, but the passage of time should require a more normal review of the existing boundaries based on an unchanged number of seats. The number of metropolitan (ie Labour) seats might actually increase given the changed population shift into cities over the last ten and more years.

I'm sorry because I loathe Boris Johnson, who he is and what he stands for, but we all know that people have strong views on him one way or another.
My sentiments entirely.

On Fixed Term Parliaments I was a lone voice on this forum over the years speaking out against it, to the perplexity of some, because I could see that the Act would in fact be manipulated by those in power (or with the most power, anyway) to achieve the precise opposite of its supposed intentions. Proof of the pudding? Since the two General Elections of 1974, they've been held in 1979, 1983, 1987, 1992, 1997, 2001, 2005, 2010, 2015, 2017 and 2019 i.e. every four or five years until this wretched Act kicked in, a case of if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Personally, along with repeal of the Act I'd like to see each Parliament restricted to four years, to bring us into line with many other Western democracies.
 

Mag_seven

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Not enough, though. I think the SNP would do well to bide their time until they reckon at least 60% of people would vote yes.

This result plays well for that - they can turn the independence debate into a sore, and blame everything that goes wrong on the Conservative Party, including that the referendum isn't legally being permitted. They make every single issue about independence, and give independence as the only way out from the rule of the English Conservative Party. They'll have plenty of time to do so with no legal referendum taking place. Support for independence could easily be at 60% two years from now, with very little SNP effort, if they just keep banging the same drum.

Given the way Northern Ireland has voted there is potentially a bigger immediate threat to that union rather than the one with Scotland.
 

Starmill

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Now why does that statement make me wonder why I was against extending the vote to the 16-18 year age range...:rolleyes:
You're against it because you disagree with the views of so many of people in that age range.

I'm sure they disagree with your views also, and are equally against your right to vote for what you want.

I don't think there's anything more to it.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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So you'd be against extending the vote because a certain demographic of people don't agree with you politically? Maybe under that same logic we should ban everyone older than 60 from voting... But we won't as it's a ridiculous idea and quite frankly ageist.

I cannot believe that you have made the assumption that you did, as the reason why I expressed my opinion was not what you say it was. It was the posting to which I responded that stated those young people would be influenced by social media in a way that more experienced adult minds would not be.
 

jfollows

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If you knew a bit more about Thatcher you would realise that "MEMEME" is a product of Thatcherism, not its cause.
I'm not disagreeing with you, and I was born in 1961, but I fear the key difference between "Thatcherism" and what we are seeing now is that then it was all about embracing change to move into a better future for us an our children, whereas Boris and - especially - my MP Esther McVey seem to want to move us all back to the 1950s, when we didn't have immigration (of course we did!) and were self-sufficient (of course we weren't!). Thatcher was always going on about how the future would be better because we would do things to make it so. I just feel a terrible difference of perspective which makes the current lot very different from the Tories in the 1980s.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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At least Labour won in my constituency, then again, there was never really any doubt they wouldn't.

In Leigh, I am sure that there were Labour voters who also thought there was never really any doubt that they would not win, but unlike your constituency, Labour did not win in Leigh, a constituency that Labour had held for over twenty years before I was born in 1945.
 

NoMorePacers

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I cannot believe that you have made the assumption that you did, as the reason why I expressed my opinion was not what you say it was. It was the posting to which I responded that stated those young people would be influenced by social media in a way that more experienced adult minds would not be.
With the way you said your opinion, it couldn’t be clearer that that was what you were insinuating if you blasted it down a megaphone and put super powerful neon lights spelling it out.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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With the way you said your opinion, it couldn’t be clearer that that was what you were insinuating if you blasted it down a megaphone and put super powerful neon lights spelling it out.

Believe that if you wish to do so, but I have twice made rebuttals of the said matter in recently made postings, which I invite you to read once again.
 

NoMorePacers

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I cannot believe that you have made the assumption that you did, as the reason why I expressed my opinion was not what you say it was. It was the posting to which I responded that stated those young people would be influenced by social media in a way that more experienced adult minds would not be.
And “experienced adult minds” aren’t influenced by whatever crap the tabloids churn out on a daily basis?
 

cactustwirly

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I'm terrified for the future. Leaving the EU will only have a negative effect on my future opportunities. We have a clown for a prime minister. Austerity and universal credit will continue, which means I'll have to work extra hard at my foodbank. How anyone can vote Tory is beyond me, with what they have done and will do to the country.

At least Labour won in my constituency, then again, there was never really any doubt they wouldn't.

Because voting Tory was probably the least worst, and safer than a Marxist Labour government
 

NoMorePacers

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Because voting Tory was probably the least worst, and safer than a Marxist Labour government
Not this again.

Until you can prove policies from the Labour manifesto directly mirror those from Das Kapital, then your suggestion is nonsense.

I’ll wait.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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And “experienced adult minds” aren’t influenced by whatever crap the tabloids churn out on a daily basis?

Not this particular one I assure you, as I only make considerations after thinking deeply into the implications of what might be entailed in any matter under personal consideration without reference to external media sources. Perhaps you know of adults of the type you so describe and I have no sympathy whatsoever with adults who are influenced in the way you describe.
 

bussnapperwm

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Ah well, say goodbye to the NHS
Say hello to more DOO
Say hello to an financial crash and more austerity

I'm thinking of moving for the next 5 years. Ireland looks nice
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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Until you can prove policies from the Labour manifesto directly mirror those from Das Kapital, then your suggestion is nonsense. I’ll wait.

Is it not the case that Das Kapital was written in a way that saw theoretical interpretations of a system that prevailed in the 19th century, when certain matters current in the 21st century did not exist at the time of writing.

I think the question to ask of you is do you interpret any Momentum inspired political statements in the latest manifesto as being Marxist in contextual phraseology, noting your linkeage between it and the theoretical views so expressed in Das Kapital as you state above.
 

DanNCL

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I was disappointed with the news of a Conservative majority this morning, but I wasn't surprised. What I was however surprised at was some of the seats the Tories have managed to take from Labour particularly in the North East - Blyth Valley, Redcar, North West Durham and Sedgefield all being very much traditional Labour areas.

Labour have forced this upon themselves, voting for this election in the first place when they weren't in a position where they had enough support to win it. Jeremy Corbyn is too left wing for many people, Labour's policy on Brexit was way too vague for this election where it's currently the biggest issue facing this country, and with that Labour had no chance of winning a majority. Many people (myself included) felt that Labour no longer represented them and took their vote elsewhere (in my case to the Liberal Democrats but in many cases to the Tories). Labour seriously need to be looking at their policies, their leadership, and regaining pubic support if they ever want to get anywhere near the keys to Downing Street again.

The Lib Dems have also made a good number of mistakes, firstly by starting off the campaign suggesting that Jo Swinson was aiming to be Prime Minister as that will have no doubt given a large number of people the impression that they weren't being realistic (which they weren't), and they also in my opinion shouldn't have stood against Labour in seats like Cities of London and Westminster or Kensington where Labour would likely have won if it wasn't for the Lib Dems splitting the vote.

Meanwhile the Tories managed to appeal to large numbers of people with their promise to "get Brexit done" and with Boris Johnson generally appealing to a large variety of people. Whilst I don't personally agree with his decision, Boris not doing an interview with Andrew Neil probably did the Tories a favour in getting more votes, as Boris couldn't slip up in an interview he didn't do. The same goes for Boris choosing not to attend a number of the election debates. It's clear to me why they won this election.

Moving forward I think a period of stability is now needed, people from both sides of the political spectrum need to come together and unify. With the Conservatives having a fair size majority no doubt Brexit will happen on the 31st January, and as much as I'd happily see a second referendum one isn't likely, that needs to be accepted and things need to move on. Politics is way too toxic currently and the sooner that changes the better.
 

Raul_Duke

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I cannot believe that you have made the assumption that you did, as the reason why I expressed my opinion was not what you say it was. It was the posting to which I responded that stated those young people would be influenced by social media in a way that more experienced adult minds would not be.

Yeah, Boomers are famously never influenced by “fake news,” on social media and the elderly are never convinced to send their life savings to the King of Nigeria.....
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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Yeah, Boomers are famously never influenced by “fake news,” on social media and the elderly are never convinced to send their life savings to the King of Nigeria.....

You are indeed right that the elderly are prime targets for the prevailing financial scams especially those who had retired and had substantial funds so available in retirement that much younger people would not have had time to accumulate, as has been often stated by the FSA and other agencies. I note that you have referred to the non-existant Nigerian Xhausa prince the time of the civil war between Nigeria and the breakaway state of Biafra, when one heartless scam involved money transfers "to help those affected" in that civil war.
 
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Aictos

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Ah well, say goodbye to the NHS
Say hello to more DOO
Say hello to an financial crash and more austerity

I'm thinking of moving for the next 5 years. Ireland looks nice

It’s already been proven that the Labour claim that the Conservatives intend to sell off the NHS is bogus and is a fictional lie thought up by the hard left.

Who says more DOO is on the way? Proof?

Just who was in charge during the last financial crash? Answer: Labour

Who sold off most of our gold reserves which could have helped us weather the crash? Answer: Labour

As to more austerity, it’s already been explained that those days are over.
 

hooverboy

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I was disappointed with the news of a Conservative majority this morning, but I wasn't surprised. What I was however surprised at was some of the seats the Tories have managed to take from Labour particularly in the North East - Blyth Valley, Redcar, North West Durham and Sedgefield all being very much traditional Labour areas.

Labour have forced this upon themselves, voting for this election in the first place when they weren't in a position where they had enough support to win it. Jeremy Corbyn is too left wing for many people, Labour's policy on Brexit was way too vague for this election where it's currently the biggest issue facing this country, and with that Labour had no chance of winning a majority. Many people (myself included) felt that Labour no longer represented them and took their vote elsewhere (in my case to the Liberal Democrats but in many cases to the Tories). Labour seriously need to be looking at their policies, their leadership, and regaining pubic support if they ever want to get anywhere near the keys to Downing Street again.

The Lib Dems have also made a good number of mistakes, firstly by starting off the campaign suggesting that Jo Swinson was aiming to be Prime Minister as that will have no doubt given a large number of people the impression that they weren't being realistic (which they weren't), and they also in my opinion shouldn't have stood against Labour in seats like Cities of London and Westminster or Kensington where Labour would likely have won if it wasn't for the Lib Dems splitting the vote.

Meanwhile the Tories managed to appeal to large numbers of people with their promise to "get Brexit done" and with Boris Johnson generally appealing to a large variety of people. Whilst I don't personally agree with his decision, Boris not doing an interview with Andrew Neil probably did the Tories a favour in getting more votes, as Boris couldn't slip up in an interview he didn't do. The same goes for Boris choosing not to attend a number of the election debates. It's clear to me why they won this election.

Moving forward I think a period of stability is now needed, people from both sides of the political spectrum need to come together and unify. With the Conservatives having a fair size majority no doubt Brexit will happen on the 31st January, and as much as I'd happily see a second referendum one isn't likely, that needs to be accepted and things need to move on. Politics is way too toxic currently and the sooner that changes the better.

I'm surprised the Liberal Democrats did as badly as they did.
It was pretty obvious that labour had gone too far left,and that style of politics is a massive turn-off for the electorate.
However, with the tories almost just as equally being split into leave/remain factions,I think it's not entirely accurate to say they won because of brexit.

With the LD's being more centrist than labour, and were very clear on their "remain" stance, they should have picked up a lot of votes from labour, but didn't.

I think when it comes to the crunch, the tories looked like safer pair of hands (or the lesser of several evils depending on your viewpoint)on the matters that really matter at the moment.
1)fiscal prudence.... better than labour and history shows it
2) regulation( or reduction thereof) and business entrepeneurship..as per 1)
3) defence/ law and order/terrorism/immigration..tories win, epic fail for corbyn

the brexit debacle is really to do with do we want to live in a high tax/high regulation economy....or a low tax,low regulation one like the US.

I think in all honesty most people...even tories here, are not of the belief that we should go full on US style corporatism.
But equally don't like the rule by diktat and business version of "original sin" mandated by the heavy handedness of brussels legislation.

the country has decided there is too much bossiness already from their elected officials,and has decided to give them a bit of a slap to bring them down a peg or two....TWICE.

First with the original brexit vote.
of course the elite thought the peasants were thick.illiterate/mentally ill/racist/bigots

and now the electorate have given them an even harder slap.....ydidn't hear us the first time?....now you WILL listen and do as you're bloody well told.

for what it's worth,I don't think boris does have a clear mandate to just railroad any old crap through because he's got a majority...a lot of the votes he got came from the disaffected heartlands of labour/manufaturing base and he'll be expected to deliver.

He's only got those votes on temporary loan and he's going to have his feet held to the fire to do something radical to turn around their misfortunes.
He needs to get a lot more manufacturing done in house again, much like trump is trying to do for the US rust belt

if boris is going to make any kind of success of this his mantra should be innovation,not legislation.
 
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TrafficEng

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...Whilst I don't personally agree with his decision, Boris not doing an interview with Andrew Neil probably did the Tories a favour in getting more votes, as Boris couldn't slip up in an interview he didn't do. The same goes for Boris choosing not to attend a number of the election debates. It's clear to me why they won this election.

I'd go further (as I hinted at upthread) and suggest that not buckling to demands to turn up to interviews/debates was a tactical move to show he was 'boss' and wouldn't cave in so easily. Demonstrating strength of leadership is an important element of winning an election where leadership is necessary. This was Corbyn's downfall.

Obviously people who don't like Boris will interpret the move as cowardice/weakness/hiding something/arrogance etc.

But then he wasn't seeking to get the votes of those people - who would never vote for him regardless of how many debates he took part in.

And the slightly hysterical media reaction to his non-participation possibly played very well to people who might be persuaded to vote for him. A melting block of ice might seem like a terribly clever idea to some, but others might view it as a provocative move by a partisan media.
 

hooverboy

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I'd go further (as I hinted at upthread) and suggest that not buckling to demands to turn up to interviews/debates was a tactical move to show he was 'boss' and wouldn't cave in so easily. Demonstrating strength of leadership is an important element of winning an election where leadership is necessary. This was Corbyn's downfall.

Obviously people who don't like Boris will interpret the move as cowardice/weakness/hiding something/arrogance etc.

But then he wasn't seeking to get the votes of those people - who would never vote for him regardless of how many debates he took part in.

And the slightly hysterical media reaction to his non-participation possibly played very well to people who might be persuaded to vote for him. A melting block of ice might seem like a terribly clever idea to some, but others might view it as a provocative move by a partisan media.

The media reaction was quite purile,I think if anything it served as a turn-off for the floating voters .
Partisan,definitely
 
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In Leigh, I am sure that there were Labour voters who also thought there was never really any doubt that they would not win, but unlike your constituency, Labour did not win in Leigh, a constituency that Labour had held for over twenty years before I was born in 1945.

You have a good point. I hear Labour lost lots of safe seats, especially in the midlands.
 
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