Body side / Hazard lights

pompeyfan · 4 Jan 2020

Saw earlier on social media the issues that traincrew have with the body side lights against low sunlight or at night against LED signals showing a restrictive aspect. A commentator suggested the possibility of changing all body side lights to something like blue.

is this a solution looking for a problem, or does the idea actually have some merit?

RailUK Forums

4F89 · 4 Jan 2020

What's the actual issue?

HamworthyGoods · 4 Jan 2020

pompeyfan said:
Saw earlier on social media the issues that traincrew have with the body side lights against low sunlight or at night against LED signals showing a restrictive aspect. A commentator suggested the possibility of changing all body side lights to something like blue.

is this a solution looking for a problem, or does the idea actually have some merit?

Blue lights are already used on the body side but they have a different meaning to orange ones and don’t require the train to be stopped.

Rule book extract
RGS Rulebook TW1, 10.6
"If you see a class 325 electric multiple-unit train pass with a blue cant-rail light illuminated near the roof, you do not need to take any action."

Llama · 4 Jan 2020

Didn't that instruction/info get removed from the rule book itself a good few years ago 'as a matter for competence management and training'?

hwl · 4 Jan 2020

The current ORR/RAIB position on BILs (and interlock) is useful as guide but not definitive or failsafe, hence a solution in serach of a problem. I can't see colour making much difference.

bunnahabhain · 5 Jan 2020

If you can see them there are other ways you can check interlock is made. Bearing in mind the light on the coach you are working from doesn't extinguish until you close your door, and on CDL fitted stock it is nothing but an indication that bolts are retracted, it gives no confirmation that doors are locked.

Monkeyfuzz · 7 Jan 2020

As a conductor, it’s a good indication that the doors are correctly closed but I’d never not look at the doors before closing my local.
When it’s an issue (glare) is when the train stops out of course as we will always stick head our cess side to check if a hazard is lit before further investigation. Because of glare, it’s not always clear if it’s lit.

43066 · 7 Jan 2020

bunnahabhain said:
If you can see them there are other ways you can check interlock is made. Bearing in mind the light on the coach you are working from doesn't extinguish until you close your door, and on CDL fitted stock it is nothing but an indication that bolts are retracted, it gives no confirmation that doors are locked.

Yes indeed.

On modern units/coaching stock with BILs you wont get interlock unless the interlock circuit has been completed and then, absent a passcom/egress activation, the BILs will have extinguished (they’re linked to the interlock circuit, IIRC).

In relation to HSTs and mk3s (any other types still remaining with hazard lights?) there’s no such thing as interlock, and the absence of hazard lights doesn’t mean the doors are closed, in any case.

A solution looking for a problem, in my view.

whoosh · 7 Jan 2020

The problem with changing them to blue would be that extinguished blue lights on the exterior would mean the doors were shut, but illuminated interlock light in the cab (also blue) would mean the same thing.
If all the lights are blue, but one lit up means the opposite of another one lit up, there's possibility for confusion or error if they are the same colour.

43096 · 7 Jan 2020

43066 said:
In relation to HSTs and mk3s (any other types still remaining with hazard lights?) there’s no such thing as interlock

For slam door Mark 3s, yes, but the HSTs modified with sliding doors do have interlock.

jopsuk · 7 Jan 2020

whoosh said:
The problem with changing them to blue would be that extinguished blue lights on the exterior would mean the doors were shut, but illuminated interlock light in the cab (also blue) would mean the same thing.
If all the lights are blue, but one lit up means the opposite of another one lit up, there's possibility for confusion or error if they are the same colour.

That would be far from ideal- I realise this is upping the stakes somewhat, but an issue identified in the aftermath of the Three Mile Island disaster was that in the control room some systems indicated red (not running) in the normal state, some indicated green (running) when normal- so when things started to go wrong there was a wall of red and green lights but it was hard to tell at a glance what was safe and what wasn't.

Body side / Hazard lights

pompeyfan

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4F89

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HamworthyGoods

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Llama

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hwl

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