Caught altered ticket Standsted Express

Kariboe365 · 24 Nov 2019

Hi all,

Im new to the forum.

I did a really stupid thing which Im fully aware of but I was hoping some of you might be able to give me some insight into my current situation.

I needed a Stansted ticket but I didn't had enough money on my account. Against my better judgement I altered a previous ticket by changing the dates on that ticket.

I got in at Liverpoolstreet and got out at Stansted airport where they scanned the ticket. The revenue protection officer said the ticket wasn't valid anymore and started to ask about how I obtained the ticket. I came clean and told him I altered the ticket because I didn't had enough money.

He asked some generic questions and took down my details.

This is the first time I have done something like this and the first time my details were being taken down by a revenue protection officer or anyone within the public transport.

He said I could expect a letter within a few weeks.

I am worried because I don't know if it's likely that they want me to go to court. If possible I would really like to settle.

There's a post on this forum from a few years ago with someone who made precisely the same stupid mistake I made. Turns out he got a fine and the matter was resolved.

Since its been a few years I have no idea as to how these things are handled now.

It was a 1 time thing, I haven't altered any other tickets (either for me or anyone else) and I don't have a criminal record.

Would anyone have any idea what the likely next steps would be?

Kind regards,

RailUK Forums

30907 · 24 Nov 2019

I don't think anything much has changed. The law certainly hasn't, and you must expect a letter asking for your version of events, to which you need to reply truthfully, apologetically and without making excuses.
Unfortunately, there's not much more to say until that letter arrives.

Kariboe365 · 25 Nov 2019

30907 said:
I don't think anything much has changed. The law certainly hasn't, and you must expect a letter asking for your version of events, to which you need to reply truthfully, apologetically and without making excuses.
Unfortunately, there's not much more to say until that letter arrives.

Thanks for your reply. I'll wait until the letter arrives

Fare-Cop · 26 Nov 2019

I wrote this 6 point response in reply to a previous user of the forum and I believe it is very relevant in your case:

Time is of the essence in getting these things resolved if any settlement is at all possible. The likelihood of success will also depend on your attitude towards the company and its' staff, but remember that altering a ticket is usually seen as a wilful act with intent to avoid a payment..

If I were you, once you get your letter I would write to the Prosecution Department as follows:

1. Express a sincere apology to the company and their staff for your actions, and recognise that your failure to pay your correct fare before travelling is wrong.
2. Recognise that fare evasion is a serious matter costing the rail industry huge sums annually
3. If this is the first time that you have been spoken to by a rail company about a ticketing issue, say so and ask if the matter might be resolved by an administrative disposal rather than prosecution
4. Offer to pay the fare due and all of the company's reasonably incurred costs in dealing with this matter
5. If you have no past history of any similar matters, say so and give a written undertaking not to travel without a valid ticket in future.
6. Explain that you realise your actions were unacceptable and you believe that you acted 'out of character' as a result of lacking funds. Say that you now worry that a conviction will result in a loss of your good name and could badly affect your future employment.

Don't write until you get the letter because only then will you have the correct reference allocated to your case file

Brissle Girl · 26 Nov 2019

I’m not sure I’d labour the point about being out of funds on a journey to an airport, bearing in mind that investigators will have a healthy degree of cynicism in respect of excuses/mitigating factors offered in these cases. It might risk rubbing them up the wrong way?

WesternLancer · 26 Nov 2019

Brissle Girl said:
I’m not sure I’d labour the point about being out of funds on a journey to an airport, bearing in mind that investigators will have a healthy degree of cynicism in respect of excuses/mitigating factors offered in these cases. It might risk rubbing them up the wrong way?

Of course it's possible the OP was going to the airport to carry put some low paid job, as opposed to getting a flight for eg a holiday. But it's such a clear cut case of intent to defraud the railway I suspect it's a case of whether the out of court settlement and sum received is a better option for the TOC than the outcome of the prosecution.

Brissle Girl · 26 Nov 2019

WesternLancer said:
Of course it's possible the OP was going to the airport to carry put some low paid job, as opposed to getting a flight for eg a holiday.

I had considered that, but you would expect commuters to have a season ticket. And I'm not sure how many low paid workers will commute from Liverpool St to Stansted given the cost involved (especially if buying one-off tickets, rather than a season).

Buy anyway, it's not what I think or you think, it's the perception that the investigator is likely to have if given the excuse that "I was on my way to the airport but didn't have enough money for the rail ticket. " That's the point I was trying to make.

some bloke · 26 Nov 2019

You might like to write down your memory of what he asked and you told him, in case it fades by the time you come to reply. The same might apply to memory of circumstances, but in your case perhaps there isn't anything significant to add other than what you've said here.

WesternLancer · 26 Nov 2019

Brissle Girl said:
I had considered that, but you would expect commuters to have a season ticket. And I'm not sure how many low paid workers will commute from Liverpool St to Stansted given the cost involved (especially if buying one-off tickets, rather than a season).

Buy anyway, it's not what I think or you think, it's the perception that the investigator is likely to have if given the excuse that "I was on my way to the airport but didn't have enough money for the rail ticket. " That's the point I was trying to make.

Yes, all points well made actually!

Kariboe365 · 27 Nov 2019

Fare-Cop said:
I wrote this 6 point response in reply to a previous user of the forum and I believe it is very relevant in your case:

Time is of the essence in getting these things resolved if any settlement is at all possible. The likelihood of success will also depend on your attitude towards the company and its' staff, but remember that altering a ticket is usually seen as a wilful act with intent to avoid a payment..

If I were you, once you get your letter I would write to the Prosecution Department as follows:

1. Express a sincere apology to the company and their staff for your actions, and recognise that your failure to pay your correct fare before travelling is wrong.
2. Recognise that fare evasion is a serious matter costing the rail industry huge sums annually
3. If this is the first time that you have been spoken to by a rail company about a ticketing issue, say so and ask if the matter might be resolved by an administrative disposal rather than prosecution
4. Offer to pay the fare due and all of the company's reasonably incurred costs in dealing with this matter
5. If you have no past history of any similar matters, say so and give a written undertaking not to travel without a valid ticket in future.
6. Explain that you realise your actions were unacceptable and you believe that you acted 'out of character' as a result of lacking funds. Say that you now worry that a conviction will result in a loss of your good name and could badly affect your future employment.

Don't write until you get the letter because only then will you have the correct reference allocated to your case file

Thank you for this. Looks really helpful. I've seen that the letter can take between 2 weeks and 5 months to arrive. Any idea if there is an average?

And it is a possibility that they want me to go straight to court, before sending them 'my side of the story'?

Kariboe365 · 27 Nov 2019

Brissle Girl said:
I’m not sure I’d labour the point about being out of funds on a journey to an airport, bearing in mind that investigators will have a healthy degree of cynicism in respect of excuses/mitigating factors offered in these cases. It might risk rubbing them up the wrong way?

Good advice. Although to be fair I didn't need money to where I was going. But you make a very valid point

cuccir · 27 Nov 2019

Kariboe365 said:
Thank you for this. Looks really helpful. I've seen that the letter can take between 2 weeks and 5 months to arrive. Any idea if there is an average?

More than 3 weeks and less than 3 months is probably most common, but there can be some variation. Given the time of year, it might go a bit longer if your case is not processed before staff start leaving for Christmas breaks.

Kariboe365 said:
And it is a possibility that they want me to go straight to court, before sending them 'my side of the story'?

It's possible but quite rare: it's usually in their interest to write to you because in responding to them, you (1) reveal any like defence (2) may provide them supporting evidence (3) would save them money in the event that your letter reveals a reason that they shouldn't prosecute you.

Fare-Cop · 28 Nov 2019

Yes Kariboe365, Cuccir is about right, I'd say 4 to 8 weeks after the event is about average depending on the office workload

some bloke · 28 Nov 2019

It's possible, but rare, for someone to find out they're being prosecuted after more than six months. The reason is that the six months is for the prosecutor to start the process at the court. As @cuccir says, it's rare for companies not to send a letter first.

There would be nothing to stop someone who did find themselves in that position writing to the prosecution department or phoning them.

It's open to someone being prosecuted to try again at putting their case if it doesn't work at first. It's also possible, as a last resort, to turn up at the court early and ask staff who the prosecutor is, then talk to them with the aim of agreeing a settlement.

btpiperuk · 7 Dec 2019

Have you received any notification from the Train Operator yet?

Kariboe365 · 8 Dec 2019

btpiperuk said:
Have you received any notification from the Train Operator yet?

No not yet. Been 2 weeks so far

Kariboe365 · 23 Jan 2020

Hi all,

Once again thanks for your help. Just a quick update.

I've received the letter from Greater Anglia where they ask me if I wish to make any comments about the incident, I may do so on the back of that letter. I've started drafting the letter but do they want me to write it on the back or can I add the letter as an additional paper? My handwriting is terrible...

Fare-Cop · 23 Jan 2020

Kariboe365 said:
Hi all,

Once again thanks for your help. Just a quick update.

I've received the letter from Greater Anglia where they ask me if I wish to make any comments about the incident, I may do so on the back of that letter. I've started drafting the letter but do they want me to write it on the back or can I add the letter as an additional paper? My handwriting is terrible...

You can type and print your letter. As long as you've actually signed it, you can then put it in 'to be signed for post' and keep a copy for your records.

This is best sent by Royal Mail 'signed for' so that you have a record that they have received it.

Kariboe365 · 23 Jan 2020

Fare-Cop said:
You can type and print your letter. As long as you've actually signed it, you can then put it in 'to be signed for post' and keep a copy for your records.

This is best sent by Royal Mail 'signed for' so that you have a record that they have received it.

Thanks for your quick response. I'm not entirely sure what you mean with 'to be signed for post'. Also, do I add their original letter in the envelope as well?

Apologies for my confusion

Fare-Cop · 23 Jan 2020

Take your letter to a post office counter and ask for it to go 'signed for'. The post office charge less than a pound in addition to the stamp in order to get a signature from the recipient and track it's delivery for you.

That way you can be certain that the TOC has received your letter and that your comments should be addressed

WesternLancer · 23 Jan 2020

Kariboe365 said:
Thanks for your quick response. I'm not entirely sure what you mean with 'to be signed for post'. Also, do I add their original letter in the envelope as well?

Apologies for my confusion

This sort of thing, 2nd class option too I think
https://www.royalmail.com/sending/uk/signed-for-1st-class

gray1404 · 24 Jan 2020

Before you print off your letter you are welcome to post a copy of it on here (with any personal details removed) so we can check it before sending and you have maximum chance of success. Also, you might want to post a copy of the letter you have received (again with personal details removed).

You say about using a second sheet of paper. I would stress that your reply must not be more then a page long anyway. It needs to be direct and to the point.

You might want to print your one page reply on to the back of the letter you have received from then by putting it in your printer. However, do keep a copy of everything you send and receive even if you simply take a photo of it using your phone.

Finally, you must respond by the deadline stated in the letter. As others have suggested you might want to get it recorded delivery. So that's basically your regular first or second class letter (either is fine) with an additional amount added for a signature to be obtained on arrival. You will need to go to to a Post Office counter to do this. Hand over your letter and ask for either first or second class with a signature (under £1 more) and they'll do the rest.

Kariboe365 · 24 Jan 2020

Fare-Cop said:
Take your letter to a post office counter and ask for it to go 'signed for'. The post office charge less than a pound in addition to the stamp in order to get a signature from the recipient and track it's delivery for you.

That way you can be certain that the TOC has received your letter and that your comments should be addressed

Thanks! Will do!

Kariboe365 · 24 Jan 2020

gray1404 said:
Before you print off your letter you are welcome to post a copy of it on here (with any personal details removed) so we can check it before sending and you have maximum chance of success. Also, you might want to post a copy of the letter you have received (again with personal details removed).

You say about using a second sheet of paper. I would stress that your reply must not be more then a page long anyway. It needs to be direct and to the point.

You might want to print your one page reply on to the back of the letter you have received from then by putting it in your printer. However, do keep a copy of everything you send and receive even if you simply take a photo of it using your phone.

Finally, you must respond by the deadline stated in the letter. As others have suggested you might want to get it recorded delivery. So that's basically your regular first or second class letter (either is fine) with an additional amount added for a signature to be obtained on arrival. You will need to go to to a Post Office counter to do this. Hand over your letter and ask for either first or second class with a signature (under £1 more) and they'll do the rest.

Thanks for your response. I'll print my letter on the back of their letter.

This is what I've drafted so far based on my research:

Dear Sir or Madam,

After receiving the attached letter from the Greater Anglia Prosecution Unit on the ****** of January, I would like to write to you my response.

Firstly I want to sincerely apologise towards Greater Anglia and its staff for what I have done.

What I did was a foolish and immature action and not at all respectable towards Greater Anglia and all the people who fairly pay for a ticket.

There are no excuses or reasons which would allow someone to alter a ticket so I will not make any.

Since my actions have cost Greater Anglia a certain amount of lost revenue and other costs, I would be more than willing to pay for any damages such as the original ticket price, administrative costs and any additional costs I have made.

This is the first time I have been spoken to about a ticketing issue and it will most definitely be the last.

Having committed no other previous offenses and having no criminal record, I can assure you that future incidents will not take place.

Since having a criminal record would prevent me doing my voluntary work which I have been doing ************, as well as any future career opportunities, I humbly ask for the possibility to settle this matter outside of court.

Yours sincerely,

30907 · 24 Jan 2020

It's short, which is excellent.
It might help if you checked your draft against Fare-Cop's post #4, and see if you can address his point 2 a little more strongly (your paragraph 3 and 4). IMO admitting that what you did was wrong not just foolish and immature would be no bad thing.
Your statement about your voluntary work is almost certainly wrong, unless you are responsible for finance or in a similar position of trust. You could reasonably say "might affect" rather than "would prevent."

Kariboe365 · 24 Jan 2020

30907 said:
It's short, which is excellent.
It might help if you checked your draft against Fare-Cop's post #4, and see if you can address his point 2 a little more strongly (your paragraph 3 and 4). IMO admitting that what you did was wrong not just foolish and immature would be no bad thing.
Your statement about your voluntary work is almost certainly wrong, unless you are responsible for finance or in a similar position of trust. You could reasonably say "might affect" rather than "would prevent."

Thanks for the feedback. I'll put the 'wrong' bit in.

About the voluntary work, since it involves working with minors, any record would result in me not being able to continue that work. But writing 'would prevent' doesnt sound to bad. Thanks

Kariboe365 · 24 Jan 2020

I mean might affect :rolleyes:

gray1404 · 24 Jan 2020

Good letter!

Kariboe365 · 24 Jan 2020

gray1404 said:
Good letter!

Thanks! I'm just a bit worried about the sentence below

Kariboe365 said:
This is the first time I have been spoken to about a ticketing issue and it will most definitely be the last.

Couldn't they interpret that as 'done but before but first time I got caught'?

Do you think its wise to change that one?

30907 · 24 Jan 2020

Kariboe365 said:
About the voluntary work, since it involves working with minors, any record would result in me not being able to continue that work.

It would show up on a DBS check, certainly, but that is not normally in itself an automatic bar. It would be the organisation's responsibility to do a risk assessment.

Caught altered ticket Standsted Express

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