National/ Enhanced Standard

Edriver · 3 Feb 2020

If you were to attend your second attempt of a full day of assessments (Group Bourdon Tool, Test Of Everyday Attention parts 1-3, Trainability Rules and Procedures part 1-2, Written Communications Test, ATAVT Perception Test, 2Hand Co-ordination Test, WAFV Vigilance Test & MMI - I think I covered all) and were to successfully pass and were awaiting a date for your DMI.

However, you then come across a TOC that suits you more, whether it be higher salary, closer depot, routes familiarity etc. They require the enhanced version, so you apply and get invited to sit additional tests (Driver Fault Finder Test) that make up their enhanced version but you fail.

What position would you be in, bearing in mind you’ve failed once before but passed on the second time round and was awaiting a DMI invitation however you didn’t meet the enhanced standard for the new TOC?

Hope this makes sense, I’ve tried looking for a tread on this but I haven’t come across any that could answer this...

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sw1ller · 4 Feb 2020

To clarify

1st attempt failed

2nd attempt pass, awaiting job offer

3rd attempt, failed (different company)

I’m guessing here, but as I understand it, you will now never be invited to do the tests again, so you wouldn’t be able to apply anywhere else*

the 2nd attempt would still stand and you would have to hope there is a job offered.

* there is no actual rule that says you may only have two failed attempts. I’ve heard of a driver who failed twice but the company let him take the test again and he got the job. So all wouldn’t be lost, but in reality, it would 99.99% be game over.

Dynamonic · 4 Feb 2020

Hi Edriver,

If, on your latest attempt you have had to resit any of the tests you sat on your previous passed attempt, then your newest scores will replace your previous scores. That is, if you have now sadly failed any of the tests you’ve passed before, or they no longer meet that previous TOC’s standard (the one you passed with), then you are now unfortunately not likely to be eligible to continue the process with that TOC.

If you only failed the additional tests which made up your most recent application, and they weren’t part of your previous assessment process, then I would expect you may still be eligible to continue with the company you were waiting for your DMI with.

I would advise contacting the OPC to clarify your position.

Edriver · 4 Feb 2020

sw1ller said:
To clarify

1st attempt failed

2nd attempt pass, awaiting job offer

3rd attempt, failed (different company)

I’m guessing here, but as I understand it, you will now never be invited to do the tests again, so you wouldn’t be able to apply anywhere else*

the 2nd attempt would still stand and you would have to hope there is a job offered.

* there is no actual rule that says you may only have two failed attempts. I’ve heard of a driver who failed twice but the company let him take the test again and he got the job. So all wouldn’t be lost, but in reality, it would 99.99% be game over.

1st attempt, fail correct

2nd awaiting DM interview

3rd attempt, fail enhanced version

Now this scenario hasn’t occurred it was just a fictional situation I raised because I wanted some clarity on where I stand if it where to happen, because I’ve considered it but hesitant because of failing at my first go. I doubt I would be lucky enough to the be the .001% who gets to resit the assessment, some people get all the luck ay..

Edriver · 4 Feb 2020

Dynamonic said:
Hi Edriver,

If, on your latest attempt you have had to resit any of the tests you sat on your previous passed attempt, then your newest scores will replace your previous scores. That is, if you have now sadly failed any of the tests you’ve passed before, or they no longer meet that previous TOC’s standard (the one you passed with), then you are now unfortunately not likely to be eligible to continue the process with that TOC.

If you only failed the additional tests which made up your most recent application, and they weren’t part of your previous assessment process, then I would expect you may still be eligible to continue with the company you were waiting for your DMI
I would advise contacting the OPC to clarify your position.

The only test I would have to sit would be the additional test that makes it the enhanced version, which I imagine is the Driver Fault Finder, which wasn’t apart of the previous assessment. All the other passed results will stand and wouldn’t have to be done again until they expire. Either way it sounds like it’s too much of a gamble...

Thanks for your reply.

Dynamonic · 4 Feb 2020

You’re right! It really would be a gamble, and one which the OPC often advise you not to take when you attend assessments.

If you’re applying for driver vacancies which hold you in sometimes lengthy ‘Talent Pools’ prior to offering you a start date, the temptation can sometimes be there to apply for other driver jobs whilst you wait.
However, sometimes the assessment process for these jobs could require you to sit tests you’ve already previously passed, likely so you can achieve a higher ‘Enhanced’ pass mark which that TOC may sometimes require. The fact is, your new scores, whether better or worse replace your previous scores, and if you’re not careful, you risk not only not securing the job you’re applying for, but heartbreakingly losing your already previously secured position of waiting for a start date from a Talent Pool. :'(

It would definitely be a gamble too far for me!

sw1ller · 4 Feb 2020

Dynamonic said:
You’re right! It really would be a gamble, and one which the OPC often advise you not to take when you attend assessments.

If you’re applying for driver vacancies which hold you in sometimes lengthy ‘Talent Pools’ prior to offering you a start date, the temptation can sometimes be there to apply for other driver jobs whilst you wait.
However, sometimes the assessment process for these jobs could require you to sit tests you’ve already previously passed, likely so you can achieve a higher ‘Enhanced’ pass mark which that TOC may sometimes require. The fact is, your new scores, whether better or worse replace your previous scores, and if you’re not careful, you risk not only not securing the job you’re applying for, but heartbreakingly losing your already previously secured position of waiting for a start date from a Talent Pool. It would definitely be a gamble too far for me!

Thanks for clarifying. I would also advise not going for the tests while waiting on an offer. Best to get the job and then move after 3-4 years in this situation. I know my TOC require you to sit all the tests again no matter when you passed previously.

MostlyHarmless · 4 Feb 2020

Edriver said:
The only test I would have to sit would be the additional test that makes it the enhanced version, which I imagine is the Driver Fault Finder, which wasn’t apart of the previous assessment. All the other passed results will stand and wouldn’t have to be done again until they expire. Either way it sounds like it’s too much of a gamble...

Thanks for your reply.

I've been in a similar situation twice. I have passed all my tests with SWR, however TPE wanted me to resit the Group Bourdon as it wasn't to their enhanced standard. I also had an application in with DB and who wanted me to resit ALL the test because I hadn't, at that time, done my MMI (I was waiting to do this with SWR). I decided that the risk of failing any of the tests and thus over-writing my passes wasn't worth it.

Stigy · 4 Feb 2020

MostlyHarmless said:
I've been in a similar situation twice. I have passed all my tests with SWR, however TPE wanted me to resit the Group Bourdon as it wasn't to their enhanced standard. I also had an application in with DB and who wanted me to resit ALL the test because I hadn't, at that time, done my MMI (I was waiting to do this with SWR). I decided that the risk of failing any of the tests and thus over-writing my passes wasn't worth it.

It was much the same with me with SWT/R. I’d have had to resit most of the tests with them as they were over 3 years old. I chose it was too much risk, so went carried on the process with GWR who would honour the assessment passes for 5 years.

It again seems inconsistent how some TOCs operate. For example, I went straight to DMI with DB Cargo, where you were told you’d have to resit everything again? I’ve heard this being the case with GWR too, but they were happy for me to go straight to the DMI. I wonder if this is another OPC thing?

MostlyHarmless · 4 Feb 2020

Stigy said:
It was much the same with me with SWT/R. I’d have had to resit most of the tests with them as they were over 3 years old. I chose it was too much risk, so went carried on the process with GWR who would honour the assessment passes for 5 years.

It again seems inconsistent how some TOCs operate. For example, I went straight to DMI with DB Cargo, where you were told you’d have to resit everything again? I’ve heard this being the case with GWR too, but they were happy for me to go straight to the DMI. I wonder if this is another OPC thing?

Did you have your MMI when you applied for DB Cargo? I have only had to do an MMI with GWR and am just waiting for the DMI with them.

I've realised I've just composed a message made up almost entirely of three letter acronyms!

Stigy · 4 Feb 2020

MostlyHarmless said:
Did you have your MMI when you applied for DB Cargo? I have only had to do an MMI with GWR and am just waiting for the DMI with them.

I've realised I've just composed a message made up almost entirely of three letter acronyms!

I did My MMI with Freightliner about a 3-months previously as well as the DFFT and Group Bourdon to enhanced standard. I did all the others about 3.5 years beforehand with SWT as they were then.

JakeLloyd · 4 Feb 2020

I'm curious, what if you passed your first set of assessments (Group Bourdon, TRP1 & 2, TEA-OCC, DFFT) at the national standard. But then go on to do assessments at another TOC who want you to pass these at an enhanced standard but you only pass at national again, would that then count as a fail and stop you from applying to a TOC that go off national standard and therefore not allow you to sit the rest of the tests i.e MMI, WAFV ect.?

Stigy · 4 Feb 2020

JakeLloyd said:
I'm curious, what if you passed your first set of assessments (Group Bourdon, TRP1 & 2, TEA-OCC, DFFT) at the national standard. But then go on to do assessments at another TOC who want you to pass these at an enhanced standard but you only pass at national again, would that then count as a fail and stop you from applying to a TOC that go off national standard and therefore not allow you to sit the rest of the tests i.e MMI, WAFV ect.?

If you pass them at National Standard again your results will stay the same, at that standard. I believe you won’t be able to go for the enhanced standard again though? Also, DFFT is an enhanced only test.

JakeLloyd · 4 Feb 2020

Stigy said:
If you pass them at National Standard again your results will stay the same, at that standard. I believe you won’t be able to go for the enhanced standard again though? Also, DFFT is an enhanced only test.

Ahh I see, thank you for the clarification! :smile:

Jaytrains · 5 Feb 2020

Stigy said:
If you pass them at National Standard again your results will stay the same, at that standard. I believe you won’t be able to go for the enhanced standard again though? Also, DFFT is an enhanced only test.

So if you apply for an enhanced TOC. You only do the DFFT. And the tests scored at National standard Hmmmm makes sense

Stigy · 5 Feb 2020

Jaytrains said:
So if you apply for an enhanced TOC. You only do the DFFT. And the tests scored at National standard Hmmmm makes sense

No, you need to do the Group Bourdon too if you only have that at national standard. There may be one other too but I can’t think which off the top of my head. Not all of the assessments are available to enhanced standard.

When I applied to Freightliner I only had to do those two, as the other marks I had were either to enhanced already, or national standard if there wasn’t an enhanced level for that assessment.

Jaytrains · 5 Feb 2020

Stigy said:
No, you need to do the Group Bourdon too if you only have that at national standard. There may be one other too but I can’t think which off the top of my head. Not all of the assessments are available to enhanced standard.

When I applied to Freightliner I only had to do those two, as the other marks I had were either to enhanced already, or national standard if there wasn’t an enhanced level for that assessment.

ohh fair enough, I’ll be surprised if they ask me to do the group bourdon again because I managed to get 10+ lines on all the grids with no mistakes

Stigy · 5 Feb 2020

Jaytrains said:
ohh fair enough, I’ll be surprised if they ask me to do the group bourdon again because I managed to get 10+ lines on all the grids with no mistakes

I thought I did as well as I could the first time round with the Group Bourdon. Turns out I needed to Redo it to enhanced standard. Even after doing it again and passing to enhanced, I don’t think I did any better than I did the first time round? It was definitely the one I found easiest.

LeGrimpeur · 5 Mar 2020

How does this situation work if a qualified driver.

If I’m working as a qualified driver (having passed tests to national standard) then apply with another toc can I only apply for roles that are national standard?

if the toc I apply with is enhanced do I have to redo certain tests? And, if so, what if I fail those tests?
Thanks

Gekko5154 · 5 Mar 2020

A qulified driver can apply for any qualified driver position without having to take any extra tests.

National/ Enhanced Standard

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