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TPE 'Abysmal' Performance

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northernchris

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Doesn't surprise me considering the fact at quite a decent percentage of them run through Manchester Castlefield. Then there's more minor pinch points (not to say these are non-issues, but nothing compares to the terror of Castlefield) North of Sheffield, around Leeds, Manchester Airport, etc.

Overcrowding doesn't help either, takes a while for trains to get in and out of stations. New trains and double sets on south transpennine will help.

I think TPE also had some staffing issues like Northern, although I think these have improved somewhat recently?

I've noticed an increase in cancellations this week from TPE due to lack of crew. Could be down to half term or the introduction of the pre-cancelled services
 
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Luke McDonnell

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Talking of Transpennine Express I am just asking what the catering service is like in first class from Liverpool-Glasgow as I am thinking about doing it in the summer do you get free sandwiches/drinks from the trolley on this service? Hopefully the issues with TPX should be resolved by then and I would also would like to travel on one of the new TPX 397s which I due to replace the 185s on this service when are all the 397s due to be in service will they be in service by the summer i.e. July and be on this route and is the first class section comfortable on the new TPX trains?

Luke
 

Jozhua

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Talking of Transpennine Express I am just asking what the catering service is like in first class from Liverpool-Glasgow as I am thinking about doing it in the summer do you get free sandwiches/drinks from the trolley on this service? Hopefully the issues with TPX should be resolved by then and I would also would like to travel on one of the new TPX 397s which I due to replace the 185s on this service when are all the 397s due to be in service will they be in service by the summer i.e. July and be on this route and is the first class section comfortable on the new TPX trains?

Luke

397's are already pottering about, I'd be pretty confident you'll get one if you travel in summer!

No idea about first class service provision though.
 

Starmill

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The likelihood of being served more than a cup of tea and a biscuit or little cake in First Class is low.

I recently travelled on a 397 one Sunday from Manchester to Glasgow. I was offered a cup of tea after Preston and again after Carlisle. It came with a little pack of biscuits. That was it. Monday - Friday in theory you might get a little more.

I was also refused a hot drink in Standard on their new locomotive hauled trains because apparently these can only be served at the galley, which is in First.
 

gimmea50anyday

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Catering crews are still learning how to operate the new stock. Also bear in mind they now have a lot more work to cover as they now have 5 coaches to operate and are currently booked to be single manned. As a *coughs* train manager I think and see that 5 coaches is too much for one member of staff to handle alone although there has been a lot of dual crewing lately this has been down to staff training.
 

tonysk14

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Up to there normal standard this Morning. 1st Airport to Glasgow cancelled throughout due a door fault. Catch a stopper to Preston and see what happens.
 

SuperNova

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Catering crews are still learning how to operate the new stock. Also bear in mind they now have a lot more work to cover as they now have 5 coaches to operate and are currently booked to be single manned. As a *coughs* train manager I think and see that 5 coaches is too much for one member of staff to handle alone although there has been a lot of dual crewing lately this has been down to staff training.

Again, watch this space.
 

SuperNova

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An interesting comment by Henri Murison of the Northern Powerhouse Partnership but I feel it is flawed. The suggestion that Northern was quite well run caused me to splutter my cornflakes.

http://www.passengertransport.co.uk/2020/02/weve-nationalised-the-wrong-train-operator/

I think the polite thing to say about Henri Murison is he likes the sound of his own voice. He also seems to have a personal vendetta against TPE and this has been going on over the past 18 months through his comments. The idea that Northern's issues are solely infrastructure and TPE's aren't, even though TPE run on the same network, is idiotic.

Equally as idiotic is TfN's targets for TPE. These PPM targets have been pulled from thin air claiming that it is some sort of average and TPE will be 'in the dock' should they not meet them. Even worse, these targets won't take into account fatalities, infrastructure issues etc. Bonkers.
 

bengley

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Talking of Transpennine Express I am just asking what the catering service is like in first class from Liverpool-Glasgow as I am thinking about doing it in the summer do you get free sandwiches/drinks from the trolley on this service? Hopefully the issues with TPX should be resolved by then and I would also would like to travel on one of the new TPX 397s which I due to replace the 185s on this service when are all the 397s due to be in service will they be in service by the summer i.e. July and be on this route and is the first class section comfortable on the new TPX trains?

Luke

The first class area is decent 1+2 seating (should be using 397s by July)

At the moment you will get a free hot drink or juice/water and biscuits/crisps/cake

The correct abbreviation for Transpennine Express is TPE by the way ;)
 

185

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5 coaches is too much for one member of staff to handle alone although there has been a lot of dual crewing lately this has been down to staff training.

Narp... Many years ago, Mr Booth could do 6 car 158s without even blinking, and that was when most punters used to buy stuff.
 

northernchris

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Equally as idiotic is TfN's targets for TPE. These PPM targets have been pulled from thin air claiming that it is some sort of average and TPE will be 'in the dock' should they not meet them. Even worse, these targets won't take into account fatalities, infrastructure issues etc. Bonkers.

It would make much more sense for operators to be judged on the percentage of PPM failures they are responsible for, along with how well they recover the service. I do think TPE's issues go much deeper than the performance though, and they have a big uphill battle to regain confidence
 

Tetchytyke

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Hard to say without knowing which train it was, but 10 minutes doesn't sound like ARS.

xx27 Scarborough was about 7 late, and I was on the xx30 which didn't leave till xx37 (and then got the inevitable yellows at Garforth). Just seemed odd, like ARS automatically prioritised an express headcode?
 

Tetchytyke

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The idea that Northern's issues are solely infrastructure and TPE's aren't, even though TPE run on the same network, is idiotic.

I don't agree.

Northern's problems in the north west largely arose from the electrification issues and the delays they caused. That delayed everything and then CAF's issues just compounded it. At least Northern tried to ensure their new diesel and electric trains were broadly identical.

TPE's issues have largely arisen because they've tried to bring in three entirely separate new rolling stock types at the same time. Whilst also trying to implement a timetable that was never achievable or robust. TPE were...optimistic...in their planning.

I appreciate the Castlefield scheme cancellation hasn't helped, but TPE simply haven't managed the project properly at all.
 

matacaster

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Talking of Transpennine Express I am just asking what the catering service is like in first class from Liverpool-Glasgow as I am thinking about doing it in the summer do you get free sandwiches/drinks from the trolley on this service? Hopefully the issues with TPX should be resolved by then and I would also would like to travel on one of the new TPX 397s which I due to replace the 185s on this service when are all the 397s due to be in service will they be in service by the summer i.e. July and be on this route and is the first class section comfortable on the new TPX trains?

Luke

Came first class from Edinburgh to Huddersfield with TPE yesterday. Boarded train in Edinburgh ,first class passengers sat down as train due to depart, all thrown off for 2 minutes to clean and put seat reservations on seats. TPE staff member at a loss to explain this behaviour. Allowed back on within 2 minutes! Received one cup of coffee and a biscuit in entire journey! Told this was due to trolley disappearing at Newcastle? and no food after 19.00 (whether this is true or not in general or just this trip I don't know). Very poor first class catering offering although ride and seats reasonable good and train on time.
 

2L70

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Narp... Many years ago, Mr Booth could do 6 car 158s without even blinking, and that was when most punters used to buy stuff.

Yes, the Late Mr Booth was a machine you could say.


I think the polite thing to say about Henri Murison is he likes the sound of his own voice. He also seems to have a personal vendetta against TPE and this has been going on over the past 18 months through his comments. The idea that Northern's issues are solely infrastructure and TPE's aren't, even though TPE run on the same network, is idiotic.

Equally as idiotic is TfN's targets for TPE. These PPM targets have been pulled from thin air claiming that it is some sort of average and TPE will be 'in the dock' should they not meet them. Even worse, these targets won't take into account fatalities, infrastructure issues etc. Bonkers.

Deflect and Deny.
 

SuperNova

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I don't agree.

Northern's problems in the north west largely arose from the electrification issues and the delays they caused. That delayed everything and then CAF's issues just compounded it. At least Northern tried to ensure their new diesel and electric trains were broadly identical.

TPE's issues have largely arisen because they've tried to bring in three entirely separate new rolling stock types at the same time. Whilst also trying to implement a timetable that was never achievable or robust. TPE were...optimistic...in their planning.

I appreciate the Castlefield scheme cancellation hasn't helped, but TPE simply haven't managed the project properly at all.

What about CAF's issues with TPE then? 397's delivered late, not all accepted due to multiple issues that CAF haven't resolved. Same with the Mk5a's - which are coming on 2 years late with sets still not accepted due to similar issues.

No doubt October - December, the decision to press ahead with a training schedule that was unsustainable rests at the hands of those at the very top. But Northern's issues aren't just infrastructure either.
 

tpjm

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Pardon? Please do explain.
A certain member of this forum struggles when alternative points are put on the table that might so much as half defend an operator - I wouldn't worry about it. You, like I, are clearly some kind of secret* TPE public relations Gestapo, ready to pounce on any nay-sayers with our indoctrinating positivity. :D


*so secret we don't even know it ourselves
 

gazzaa2

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As others have said, it's not so much when you're travelling with them that's the problem, it's when you're not! The new trains are a welcome boost in capacity, and I can imagine that in a couple of years time the overall TPE experience will be better than it was in (say) 2015.

But since 2018, they have had a high frequency of cancellations, particularly in the aftermath of timetable changes: December 19 was the worst, but there were issues both after May 18 and December 18 as well. It'd be wrong to imagine that there were none in-between those pinch points either: their Scarborough service in particular has been bad, but really on all routes they're prone to cancelling services at York in order to maintain core frequency. In turn, the core remains prone to overcrowding as there is such demand on the Leeds-Manchester-Liverpool segment in particular that a minor delay on the periphery can create huge impacts down the line.

The underlying problem is attempting to run mid-to-long distance services from Scotland, the North-East and Yorkshire to Liverpool and Manchester Airport through a heavily congested urban core (between Leeds and Manchester). Unless you have excellent organisation, and some spare capacity, problems will reverberate across the length of that network and the only fixes are cancellations at the edges, or overcrowding in the core.

That Liverpool-Newcastle line must be the biggest in the north (and extended to Edinburgh now). You've got the major northern cities (Liverpool/Manchester/Leeds/Newcastle) and major UK tourist destinations (Durham/York/Edinburgh) and it's almost been too big for TPE to deal with the demand.
 

superkev

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What about CAF's issues with TPE then? 397's delivered late, not all accepted due to multiple issues that CAF haven't resolved. Same with the Mk5a's - which are coming on 2 years late with sets still not accepted due to similar issues
TPe (and Northern) did choose CAF for a variety of reasons so it's not much point in blaming someone else.
K
 

SuperNova

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TPe (and Northern) did choose CAF for a variety of reasons so it's not much point in blaming someone else.
K

Blaming someone else? If you contract someone to deliver that product and they fail to deliver - you can't blame the TOC. There are of course contractual and financial penalties which nobody on here will ever know of due to their commercial sensitivity, but it is hardly the fault of a TOC is promises, set in contract, are not delivered.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing - but there were valid reasons why CAF were chosen ahead of say Hitachi and this has been done to death on several threads.
 

AndrewE

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That Liverpool-Newcastle line must be the biggest in the north (and extended to Edinburgh now). You've got the major northern cities (Liverpool/Manchester/Leeds/Newcastle) and major UK tourist destinations (Durham/York/Edinburgh) and it's almost been too big for TPE to deal with the demand.
Why should that be? You just need a reliable service of trains that are long enough (i.e. enough capacity) at an adequate frequency for the demand. It's only what railways are supposed to do on trunk routes, after all!
6 coaches half-hourly should do it, expand to 8 or 10 as soon as shown necessary, increase the frequency in parallel with lengthening.
 

gazzaa2

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Why should that be? You just need a reliable service of trains that are long enough (i.e. enough capacity) at an adequate frequency for the demand. It's only what railways are supposed to do on trunk routes, after all!
6 coaches half-hourly should do it, expand to 8 or 10 as soon as shown necessary, increase the frequency in parallel with lengthening.

To be fair it's as much that the line itself struggles to cope but they haven't produced the reliable service needed. Manchester to York was supposed to be electrified by now (which isn't down to TPE)
 

2L70

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:|
A certain member of this forum struggles when alternative points are put on the table that might so much as half defend an operator - I wouldn't worry about it. You, like I, are clearly some kind of secret* TPE public relations Gestapo, ready to pounce on any nay-sayers with our indoctrinating positivity. :D


*so secret we don't even know it ourselves

There’s a passenger I know of who when things go wrong tries to put the blame straight on to the staff... why did I think of this comment? :D
 

Tetchytyke

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Told this was due to trolley disappearing at Newcastle? and no food after 19.00 (whether this is true or not in general or just this trip I don't know).

Catering on weekdays is 0730-1830 (approx) so the trolley probably will have left the train at Newcastle at 7pm.

Very poor, but on a par with XC, who pull their catering after 7pm too. Just something else to remember when you see "cheap" evening 1st class tickets.

What about CAF's issues with TPE then? 397's delivered late, not all accepted due to multiple issues that CAF haven't resolved. Same with the Mk5a's - which are coming on 2 years late with sets still not accepted due to similar issues.

TPE had Mk3 sets and chose not to use them, despite them being a franchise commitment. The resulting overcrowding was both predictable and avoidable. Same with the "brave" May 2018 timetable which immediately fell apart.

The issues on TPE predate the CAF issues and the main issues have affected the north east, far away from CAF trains. I do agree CAF's issues aren't TPE's fault- CAF are an established builder and the 332/333 units were fine out of the box- but TPE project management has been abysmal.

With Arriva and the DfT-mandated industrial disputes out of the way, expect more focus on just how poor TPE management has been.
 

js1000

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With Arriva and the DfT-mandated industrial disputes out of the way, expect more focus on just how poor TPE management has been.
The Cleethorpes to Manchester Airport service delays the Northern service between Liverpool and Manchester Airport everyday. I was on it on Tuesday evening and the Northern guard announced once we left 6 minutes late that: "I want to point out that we arrived on-time at Manchester Piccadilly but were delayed by a late-running TPE train which needed to be ahead of us". The spotlight will soon be shining on TPE once Northern is taken into public hands.
 

Bevan Price

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Catering on weekdays is 0730-1830 (approx) so the trolley probably will have left the train at Newcastle at 7pm.

Very poor, but on a par with XC, who pull their catering after 7pm too. Just something else to remember when you see "cheap" evening 1st class tickets.



TPE had Mk3 sets and chose not to use them, despite them being a franchise commitment. The resulting overcrowding was both predictable and avoidable. Same with the "brave" May 2018 timetable which immediately fell apart.

That was largely due to some people whingeing about accessibility problems with Mk. 3 coaches.
 

Roger B

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How does accessibility with Mk 3s differ before 7pm and after 7pm? Or have I misunderstood your post?
 
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