Why are buses on the Isle of Wight so good compared to other rural parts of the UK?

Hophead · 22 Jul 2020

Why are buses on the Isle of Wight so good compared to other rural parts of the UK?

Two reasons: Vectis have a monopoly and strong local management. Obviously, The Solent helps to deter competitors, but this allows the company to concentrate on more effectively serving the local population, utilising evil cross-subsidy to provide better services than might be expected during evenings and Christmas, for example. While its clear that they do, to an extent, take advantage of the monopoly to charge a high fare to less regular passengers, it seems to me that this does also provide for a modern and well-maintained fleet, albeit without most of the extras which are common elsewhere, such wi-fi and next-stop information (unless this has changed in the last couple of years). Without the effective management, though, the Isle of Wight could have just a dismal a service as many other rural areas of the UK.

I would argue that, if you want a good local bus service, then you pretty much need a monopoly company. Competition tends to provide more frequent services, at an admittedly lower price, on a few corridors, with the rest getting rather less than it should. And you can add in disjointed ticket options to that. Since this is the internet, it's necessary to state that a monopoly supplier is certainly not a guarantee of a good service.

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Andyh82 · 22 Jul 2020

They also have a good set up where some minor unprofitable services are actually driven by volunteers, but still using Southern Vectis buses and advertised as part of the overall network. Maybe a better system than these services being operated by another operator, excluded from publicity and network ticketing and seen as something separate ignored by all but those who need to use the service

First Kernow was a very similar set up, but of course that has all been wrecked now.

SV also then have the modern schools fleet, which can then be used in summer for the frequency increase and the Island Coaster route

Statto · 23 Jul 2020

Another thing, Southern Vectis have been quite predatory when it comes to other operators starting services, refusing other operators to use the bus station which SV own in Newport, even the OFT found Southern Vectis behaviour to be anti competitive.

PTR 444 · 23 Jul 2020

Statto said:
Another thing, Southern Vectis have been quite predatory when it comes to other operators starting services, refusing other operators to use the bus station which SV own in Newport, even the OFT found Southern Vectis behaviour to be anti competitive.

I don’t think any other operator has tried to start a local bus service on the Island???

carlberry · 23 Jul 2020

Statto said:
Another thing, Southern Vectis have been quite predatory when it comes to other operators starting services, refusing other operators to use the bus station which SV own in Newport, even the OFT found Southern Vectis behaviour to be anti competitive.

The bus station thing was many years ago. It's resolution has been used as the basis of any similar disputes since (that they cant stop people using such a facility, however they can charge a fair price).

Commercial Motor Article from 1988

The Office of Fair Trading has told Southern Vectis that it must share one of its bus stations at Newport on the Isle of Wight, or face the Monopolies and Mergers Commission.

A report published by the OFT last week followed an investigation under the Competition Act 1980 into the use of Newport bus station. It is the OFTs first foray into Britain's deregulated bus industry.

A small operator, Gange Taxis and Minicoaches, had complained that SV's refusal to let it use the bus station had greatly impaired its ability to compete.

SV owns the bus sation, but this cut no ice with Sir Gordon Borne, director-general of the Office of Fair Trading, who said: "I recognise that in refusing competitors access to the bus station, Southern Vectis is exercising its rights over its own property.

"In some circumstances, however, the way property rights are used may significantly restrict competition."

He went on to say that he believed that access, for an appropriate fee, was essential for effective competition. It was not feasible for a second bus station to be built. "I therefore intend to refer the matter to the Monopolies and Mergers Commission unless Southern Vectis agrees to end its policy," he warned.

"We feel vindicated," said John Gange, proprietor of the firm, which runs minibuses between Cowes and Newport, "but I feel like Daniel in the lions' den and I am waiting to see what Southern Vectis comes up with."

He added that Transport Minister David Mitchell had listened sympathetically to his problems during a visit to the island when Southern Vectis was privatised.

PeterC · 23 Jul 2020

Hophead said:
Why are buses on the Isle of Wight so good compared to other rural parts of the UK?

Two reasons: Vectis have a monopoly and strong local management. Obviously, The Solent helps to deter competitors, but this allows the company to concentrate on more effectively serving the local population, utilising evil cross-subsidy to provide better services than might be expected during evenings and Christmas, for example. While its clear that they do, to an extent, take advantage of the monopoly to charge a high fare to less regular passengers, it seems to me that this does also provide for a modern and well-maintained fleet, albeit without most of the extras which are common elsewhere, such wi-fi and next-stop information (unless this has changed in the last couple of years). Without the effective management, though, the Isle of Wight could have just a dismal a service as many other rural areas of the UK.

I would argue that, if you want a good local bus service, then you pretty much need a monopoly company. Competition tends to provide more frequent services, at an admittedly lower price, on a few corridors, with the rest getting rather less than it should. And you can add in disjointed ticket options to that. Since this is the internet, it's necessary to state that a monopoly supplier is certainly not a guarantee of a good service.

Once you cross subsidise evening and Sunday services you create a virtuous cycle. If you don't need a car to go out in the evening then it is less likely to be a lifestyle purchase. So more people use the buses.

baza585 · 24 Jul 2020

Largely because the council is very supportive, despite being Conservative led. SV have had a good working relationship with them for many years, particularly under the management now running First Kernow, when a number of innovative ideas were introduced such as volunteer drivers.

No doubt IOW council are as cash strapped as many others, but they prioritise public transport far higher than most of their peers.

SV has an effective monopoly which helps, and the fare structure has been designed for some years to favour long term users (ie Island residents) over holidaymakers. I'm not aware of what the ENCTS arrangements are, but they must be key to SV finances.

ainsworth74 · 24 Jul 2020

baza585 said:
SV has an effective monopoly which helps, and the fare structure has been designed for some years to favour long term users (ie Island residents) over holidaymakers.

Even then they are not necessarily rinsing tourists either. As @Starmill mentioned there's a very good value group day ticket which considering the level of service offered makes it very very easy to get around the island. Certainly on both the Forum trips I've been on to the island it was made very good use of!

Eyersey468 · 24 Jul 2020

MotCO said:
I've always likened the IoW as being in a 1950's time-warp - bus services were better in the fifties

Seriously though, are there barriers to new entrants to the market? Land for a new depot may be scarce and could be expensive. Where would drivers be sourced from - would many Southern Vectis drivers want to jump ship? If Southern Vectis run intensive services throughout the sland, where are the gaps in the market which a competitor could exploit?

There have been times when another operator has tried to run a service, IIRC Ganges of Cowes tried to run a bus to Newport a number of years ago and SV simply ran buses in front of them and banned them from Newport bus station, which got them a telling off from the competition authorities. Eventually Ganges pulled out as the service wasn't viable

Romsey · 24 Jul 2020

Many passengers are on senior citizen passes or student season tickets. It may be less income than bus company sold fares, but it is a steady income. All specialist 6th form education is concentrated in Newport, so that ensures a steady flow of customers for much of the year. Most medical treatment is concentrated at St Mary's hospital north of Newport which also provides a steady traffic. The cash fares for single journeys are about the same as other Go-Ahead South Coast operators, but the £10.00 day ticket is really good value when flitting around on behalf of elderly relatives.

I would suggest that the linking or routes in the eastern Wight have opened up many more journey opportunities. Back in the 1970's there wasn't a through service from Bembridge to Newport or Brading to Godshill. The new out of town stores at Ryde, Lake and south of Newport are served by long distance bus routes, not just shopping hours local services. The former cross Newport route 1, Ryde - Wootton - Newport - West Cowes was split at Newport over 20 years ago due to the chronic traffic congestion on Coppins Bridge roundabout and Fairlee Road.

I suppose it comes down to running a service that people can rely on and having a standard hour timetable so passengers know the minutes past the hour for regular journeys. ( Which was the theory and lesson applied for the South London Line in 1910 and the South Western electrification from 1915.)

Once the ferry services become more relaxed, if you can get over to the Island and have never been before it is a bit of a time warp. Apart from this (probably) being the last year of the '38 stock on the electric railway, there are the steam railway and the Needles and Downs open top routes.
Ticket details -https://www.islandbuses.info/rover-multi-day-tickets
Note the Rover and Breezer ticket is only £2 more than the basic rover ticket.

Romsey · 24 Jul 2020

Eyersey468 said:
There have been times when another operator has tried to run a service, IIRC Ganges of Cowes tried to run a bus to Newport a number of years ago and SV simply ran buses in front of them and banned them from Newport bus station, which got them a telling off from the competition authorities. Eventually Ganges pulled out as the service wasn't viable

Seaview Motor services ran a local service between Ryde and Seaview until the 1980's and ended up running ex SV vehicles. Eventually they sold out to SV as the local coach trade had declined to the point of oblivion. ( Organised holidays bring their own coach over to the Island. ) The 1960's queues of coaches of different companies lined up for day or half day tours in Sandown, Shanklin and Ryde have long since gone. ( Godshill for tea anyone? )

Journeyman · 24 Jul 2020

MotCO said:
I've always likened the IoW as being in a 1950's time-warp - bus services were better in the fifties

Seriously though, are there barriers to new entrants to the market? Land for a new depot may be scarce and could be expensive. Where would drivers be sourced from - would many Southern Vectis drivers want to jump ship? If Southern Vectis run intensive services throughout the sland, where are the gaps in the market which a competitor could exploit?

I've long suspected the barriers to entry are significant. Quite often, bus companies will set up raids on new territory from existing operating bases, and you can't do that here, as taking buses back on forth on ferries is hardly viable. Anyone taking on SV has to sink a lot of cash into a depot on the island, along with a captive fleet, and as SV already have a big network with few gaps, the risks involved in starting a bus war are enormous. You'd have to be very brave to try it.

43055 · 24 Jul 2020

Having been to the IOW for a number of holidays I have to say the quality of the buses is very good and are normally quite full in the summer. I have found the drivers to be friendly and one even apologised over the speakers on the bus for a 20 minute delay and the tickets to be quite reasonable compared with my local operator. I also like the through ticketing they do which I used last year when I went from Ryde to Yarmouth on the 9 and 7. I have not seen this that much on other operators.

Eyersey468 · 24 Jul 2020

Romsey said:
Seaview Motor services ran a local service between Ryde and Seaview until the 1980's and ended up running ex SV vehicles. Eventually they sold out to SV as the local coach trade had declined to the point of oblivion. ( Organised holidays bring their own coach over to the Island. ) The 1960's queues of coaches of different companies lined up for day or half day tours in Sandown, Shanklin and Ryde have long since gone. ( Godshill for tea anyone? )

I think Moss Motors also ran a local service at one time until they sold out to SVOC

Chris125 · 29 Jul 2020

baza585 said:
No doubt IOW council are as cash strapped as many others, but they prioritise public transport far higher than most of their peers.

Maybe true once, but sadly the IoW remains severely affected by local authority spending cuts; it's been many years now since the council could afford anything but the bare minimum of bus subsidies or public transport generally, one reason why Island Line traffic fell incidentally.

route101 · 29 Jul 2020

Was in the Isle of Wight last week , the network is pretty good. centred on Newport, main interchange. The day ticket at £10 was maybe a bit steep , extra £2 for open toppers. App was a click to ride app, so not branded for Southern Vectis.

Good to see a mostly decker fleet.

packermac · 29 Jul 2020

route101 said:
Was in the Isle of Wight last week , the network is pretty good. centred on Newport, main interchange. The day ticket at £10 was maybe a bit steep , extra £2 for open toppers. App was a click to ride app, so not branded for Southern Vectis.

Good to see a mostly decker fleet.

Really! I would have thought £10 for the Island all day was good value. Costs £8 to go from Swanage to Bournemouth and back (although of course pre Covid many buses were full of free passes)

Tetchytyke · 29 Jul 2020

Journeyman said:
I've long suspected the barriers to entry are significant. Quite often, bus companies will set up raids on new territory from existing operating bases, and you can't do that here

The only other way is to grow out of an existing coaching business. But as others have said, coaching isn't what it was. Either way, a quick way to make a small fortune by starting off with a big one.

packermac said:
Really! I would have thought £10 for the Island all day was good value.

I'd say it was a bit on the pricey side, the IoW isn't that big, and it'd soon add up for locals. But then I noticed they do a 5x1 day bundle for £28, which is clearly targeted at the locals, which isn't so bad at all

Hophead · 29 Jul 2020

The day ticket has been £10 for a few years now (so is at least better value than when initially priced!).

Andyh82 · 29 Jul 2020

Hophead said:
The day ticket has been £10 for a few years now (so is at least better value than when initially priced!).

It seems that the breezers are now extra though, I’m sure they used to be included?

Thomas31 · 29 Jul 2020

Tetchytyke said:
The only other way is to grow out of an existing coaching business. But as others have said, coaching isn't what it was. Either way, a quick way to make a small fortune by starting off with a big one.

I'd say it was a bit on the pricey side, the IoW isn't that big, and it'd soon add up for locals. But then I noticed they do a 5x1 day bundle for £28, which is clearly targeted at the locals, which isn't so bad at all

There are weekly and longer season tickets also:

Weekly and Period tickets

Freedom tickets are ideal for the regular traveler or commuter.

www.islandbuses.info

Metal_gee_man · 30 Jul 2020

£10 with SV (Go-Ahead Group) IOW vs £7.10 with Stagecoach Kent and East Sussex
It's distance vs complete coverage

Why are buses on the Isle of Wight so good compared to other rural parts of the UK?

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