Jorge Da Silva
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Was Rose Hill Marple ever proposed for closure? If so why didnt it happen? If it wasn’t any reason why they kept it??
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Why did Rose Hill Marple survive the cuts of the 60s??
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A convenient siding for Hyde trains perhaps?
Mcr Warrior
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Yes, it was proposed for closure in the 1963 "The Reshaping of British Railways Report".
Presumably relatively decent commuter patronage into Manchester helped save it?
High Dyke
Established Member
The suggestion on the internet is that it was kept because of commuter traffic into Manchester
Revaulx
Member
Perhaps. That wasn’t enough to save Hayfield though.
The whole GC/NS joint line was a bit of a basket case from the start, its biggest upshot being a massive handbag fight between the NS and LNWR. The latter regarded the line as an act of treachery and the fallout in Macclesfield (two stations) wasn’t rectified until the early 60s.
People only familiar with the area from looking at a map might think that retaining Rose Hill was pointless with Marple station only a short distance away. Rose Hill is on the same level as the majority of the town though; Marple is at the bottom of a huge hill.
Marple is quite posh.
MadMarsupial
Member
I think Marple was in the old Cheadle constituency ( part of Hazel Grove from 1974) . It was usually Lib/Con marginal. The line survived until 01/70 so the final closure was under the 64-70 Labour government. Trying to make this a little easier for the Libs by keeping the station ? - one less tory? Mitigating the "excesses" of Beeching under the tories?
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edwin_m
Veteran Member
Bolton to Rochdale is an orbital route. At the time, railways were seen as mainly important for radial journeys into city centres. There was little traffic congestion in outlying towns and buses were seen as suitable for orbital journeys.
Obviously this became less true after the Beeching era, when traffic increased everywhere.
There was formerly a bay platform at Marple station so that could have been kept and trains terminated there instead, so I don't think the "convenient siding" argument is valid. More likely that it does indeed serve a different part of the community, and it looks to be the sort of place that knows how to lobby in high places.
Looking at old timetables it's remarkable how Hayfield had a good service (IIRC hourly, with many peak extras) right up to a few years before closure. This might have suggested good usage, but perhaps the mid-60s schedule was vastly over-provisioned? Did Hayfield survive long enough to get DMUs incidentally?
Perhaps. That wasn’t enough to save Hayfield though.
I have vague memories of visiting some friends of my parents, or they may have been distant relations, at Marple when I was perhaps 5 or 6 and I do remember the road from Stockport to there seemed to go up, and up, and up.
Mcr Warrior
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Hayfield station was closed early 1970, so yes, it did.
Thanks. In an alternate reality one can imagine catching a train to Edale, walking over Kinder Scout down to Hayfield and catching the train back...
Marple to Manchester by car or bus is epic, Stockport is nearer but also takes ages. Trains from Marple or Rosehill frequent and quick by comparison. There are a lot of people live in Marple. There's been a proposal to run trains Marple to Stockport via Guide Bridge- a long way round but probably quicker trhan the bus!
Mcr Warrior
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Still kind of do-able, although a somewhat longer walk now required to New Mills Central or Chinley.
Getting back on topic, 5 January 1970 wasn't a good day for one-time rail services in the Manchester area. As well as the stations south of Rose Hill Marple towards Macclesfield (via Bollington), this was also the date when passenger services east of Hadfield (via the Woodhead line) were withdrawn.
Any others in the area as well?
I should think there is more than a grain of truth in this posting!
edwin_m
Veteran Member
On a school walk in (probably) 1974 we got the train from Piccadilly to Hope, then walked to Hayfield via the Losehill ridge and over the top of Cowburn Tunnel. However we had to be met at Hayfield by parents with cars. I recall it was a very hot day, we hadn't brought enough to drink and had to give some to a classmate who hadn't brought any.
The interesting point for this discussion was that we had to change at New Mills Central. I think this was a relic of the Manchester "suburban" service running to Hayfield with connections at New Mills towards Sheffield, and possibly even of the Bakewell route being the main line in previous years. It was certainly symptomatic of the lack of initiative by London Midland region at the time.
Trains from Manchester now run through to Sheffield or terminate at New Mills, so I can't see that it was necessary to retain Hayfield as a turnback.
On another walk we were invited in to Marple Wharf Junction signal box.
High Dyke
Established Member
MadMarsupial
Member
Found this study which some people might find interesting. It goes into the history of the Macc Line closure in some detail.
www.marple.website
Railways of Marple and District: The Beeching Era - The Marple Website
www.marple.website
londontransit
Member
I know this isn't Rose Hill (or the former line to Macclesfield) but since Hayfield's popped up in the convo, I was surprised to find the Hayfield branch still in use in the 1990s (or at least the first bit of it!) It was used as a stabling point for trains terminating at New Mills Central and I captured a picture of a Met Cam DMU in Hayfield tunnel from a passing train. After re-discovering the photograph last year I did a post about that plus the Hayfield branch.
Mystery DMU tunnel.
Mystery DMU tunnel.
The only time I went to Rose Hill, in the 1970s, although the line ended there, both platforms were still in use and the DMU had to reverse over a crossing to reach the other platform for its service back to Manchester .... I was travelling with the guard so I stayed on the train whilst this happened. Clearly at some point after that the layout was further simplified so now there's just a single line serving the former down (Manchester-bound) platform. I think I only went there because I hadn't been before and my friend was working the train, and I've not been back since.
However I was always sorry that the line to Macclesfield went because I lived in Poynton 1961-1976, then Bollington 1976-198x. I was too young to remember the line in any way.
EDIT I see from the article referred to in post #17 that the double-track arrangement lasted until 1980, when Marple Wharf Junction was resignalled.
However I was always sorry that the line to Macclesfield went because I lived in Poynton 1961-1976, then Bollington 1976-198x. I was too young to remember the line in any way.
EDIT I see from the article referred to in post #17 that the double-track arrangement lasted until 1980, when Marple Wharf Junction was resignalled.
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londontransit
Member
That would have been the classic reduction from a substantial railway station to what would be no more than perhaps a mere bus stop! What I'd call a tinpot line!
That's quite believable; I grew up in Poynton in the 1960s and learned from an early age that the A6 and its surrounding roads were to be avoided at all costs. I sometimes used the 190 bus from Manchester to Poynton [limited stop along the route of the 192, then past the Rising Sun pub, A523 to Poynton and I think terminated at Woodford Church eventually] which used the A6 and I enjoyed it if I wasn't in a hurry and liked looking at the shops from on high for extended periods.
The A6 is often one of those frustrating roads which widens with extra lanes for a short distance and then goes back to one lane. Really unpleasant for the occasional driver; the regular commuter would at least know what was coming ahead.
Contrast this with Kingsway/A34 and Princess Road/Parkway/A5103/M56 further west; these roads are an order of magnitude better, and were in my formative years (obviously not the M56).
From Poynton we always used the A34 to get into Manchester, even though it wasn't a dual carriageway south of Cheadle and - as today - disintegrates into little roads near Slade Lane Junction. But starting from Marple this route probably didn't make sense. Once the M56 was built then I used this to get to Bollington from Manchester most of the time.
I suspect the equation remains similar today, even with additional roads and motorways. I still expect to grind to a halt anywhere in the Marple area if I'm driving at just about any time of day, let alone commuting time.
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Interesting - though if trains have terminated at New Mills since closure (can't speak for now, but I do remember in the nineties alternate trains terminated at New Mills with a very long, almost an hour turn around time) that could, perhaps, have been an argument for retaining Hayfield as you could just run the same service on to there without any extra diagrams needed!
Ash Bridge
Established Member
Its funny that you refer to it as a tinpot line, I was told long ago by someone that I used to work with and who had travelled the line several times in his younger days that its local nickname was the coffee pot line…..though for what reason I never found out.
Killingworth
Established Member
Marple station, 498k passengers in 2019-20, Rose Hill, 215k so not an insignificant station.
Whether anything eventually comes from the Transforming Your Railway bid remains to be seen. Currently it may be quicker to walk than take trains from Marple to Stockport. See; https://andrewgwynne.co.uk/gwynne-successful-in-restoring-your-railway-bid/
Whether anything eventually comes from the Transforming Your Railway bid remains to be seen. Currently it may be quicker to walk than take trains from Marple to Stockport. See; https://andrewgwynne.co.uk/gwynne-successful-in-restoring-your-railway-bid/
londontransit
Member
Its because I wrote a series entitled Tinpot railways. My experiences during the sixties (and seventies too) was one of substantial railway systems and stations reduced within a few short years to mere sidings and bus type halts - then in many cases closed altogether. I can't think of another term that would describe the malaise dear old Britain had towards its railways in those decades.
Coffeepot line - maybe it was something to do with the canals that ran parallel hereabouts - eg the Macclesfield and Peak Forest canals - the boats' beautifully decorated coffee pots?
Mcr Warrior
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I recall the stub of the Hayfield line at New Mills being used as a quasi-refuge siding in the 1980s/1990s, but surely most of the line to Hayfield soon became the Sett Valley Trail as early as the mid 1970s.
One source quoted diesel units being introduced to the Hayfield line on a Sunday in June 1957.
Ash Bridge
Established Member
Ah, I see - thanks for the explanation. Regarding the lines nickname, your suggestion is interesting and one that I had honestly never thought about so a possibility indeed!
Bevan Price
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Coffee Pot was also a nickname used by some people to describe "oldish" locos with relatively tall chimneys. The "Marple" group of lines was one of the last haunts of LNER (ex GCR) Class C13 & C14 4-4-2 tanks in the Manchester area before dmus took over.
Killingworth
Established Member
Just back from a walk along along Macclesfield Canal from Marple to Middlewood and back down the old railway track bed from old Middlewood High Level back to Rose Hill. Middlewood station being almost half a mile from the nearest road.
Unable to report on trains at Rose Hill as service stopped this afternoon due to a passenger incident on a train requiring ambulance! Brilliant for observing well maintained canal barges in action.
Unable to report on trains at Rose Hill as service stopped this afternoon due to a passenger incident on a train requiring ambulance! Brilliant for observing well maintained canal barges in action.
Cricketer8for9
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Interesting comment - and is a useful anecdote as to why the South Manchester lines were closed - people stopped using them because new and better roads were built. Living twelve miles south of London we never contemplated driving to Central London, though did to Croydon, which tend to explain why surface based local public transport lost passengers while trains to London did not suffer as badly.
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