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155344 at Heaton

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driverd

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Hello all, having earlier passed Heaton depot, I noticed, what seems atleast, a rare visitor - as the title suggests, 155344 stood on the fuel road.

Can anyone shed any light? Or is this now a regular diagram for some specific depot attention?
 
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Adam0984

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No it'll just be where they have space to do one of the exams on it. There's no work in the north east for them
 

driverd

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Seems peculiar to take it all the way to Heaton, especially considering the lack of driver knowledge - unless I'm mistaken, wouldn't a Newcastle driver have to route conduct a York driver to get it on depot?
 

Adam0984

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Yeah they would. Does seem a bit crazy but the drivers diagram used to have enough time for the train to go upto Heaton and back. Back in the days of 142s a pair used to go upto Heaton and a pair came back and fairly regularly the same pair went up and came back down and just got fuelled at Heaton
 

driverd

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That seems like absolute madness - take a unit on a round trip of some 160 miles, to a depot where none of the staff sign it, purely for fuel, when there's a fuel point at York. I understand that it's usually for unit rotation, but to not ad-hoc cancel in such circumstances seems very amiss.

I suppose if the DfT do ask for those 10% savings, there's atleast some low hanging fruit.
 

Adam0984

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This will be an exam not just fuel. It allows that train to be back in service quicker by sending it to the depot that can do it quickest. And isn't a wasted trip as it will go either behind another unit or instead of the usual 158
 

driverd

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In fairness I was referring more to the pacers scenario you described, in terms of being wasteful - though I assumed (perhaps wrongly), Heaton staff wouldn't sign 155s? Certainly is the case elsewhere that fitters must be trained on each traction type - though its not something I know much about. For heavier exams is it less specific and more generic?
 

Adam0984

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Oh yeah the pacer was crazy. I think the 155s are extremely similar to 156s so no extra knowledge
 

IanXC

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Yeah they would. Does seem a bit crazy but the drivers diagram used to have enough time for the train to go upto Heaton and back. Back in the days of 142s a pair used to go upto Heaton and a pair came back and fairly regularly the same pair went up and came back down and just got fuelled at Heaton

There might have been time to get to Heaton and back but based on pictures I've seen theres very few occasions where the same units came back.

This 155 movement I'm told was this https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:K66504/2022-01-16/detailed

Given that we know that 158 3 car units go to Heaton for heavy exams it seems entirely plausible that this 155 has gone there for that too.
It did sound as though it had a wheel flat on Friday, so maybe getting some work done on that.

Given Heaton doesn't have a wheel lathe that seems unlikely!
 

Anvil1984

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Getting into speculation but Heaton have been handling the Wheel Slide Protection installations for the Northern fleet (including on the 150s which also aren’t local). Might be related
 

DanNCL

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Heaton carry out a lot of the heavier exams on Northern's DMU fleet and have for a long time. The only units operated by Northern that don't visit Heaton periodically for heavier work are the EMU fleet, the 170s and the 195s. 150s are also semi-regular visitors to Heaton, as were the 144s and the 153s before they were withdrawn.

Movements of anything from the Northern fleet other than a 158 between York and Darlington are usually operated by ROG (Rail Operations Group). In theory a York driver could take any unit they sign (which would include a 155) on their own as far as Newcastle, but would need a route conductor for the last bit on to Heaton - it's often easier to contract the move out than it is to provide a route conductor for such a move. Movements of 150s/155s from Neville Hill to Heaton can be counteracted by a 156 going the other way to use the wheel lathe at Neville Hill which makes it a round trip rather than a one way working for the ROG driver.

With regards to the 142 moves in question previously, the 142s in question were allocated to Heaton and would return periodically for exams. If for whatever reason the units sent to Heaton didn't need an exam (altered diagrams following disruption for example) they could be returned south pretty much straight away, but this wasn't common.

In fairness I was referring more to the pacers scenario you described, in terms of being wasteful - though I assumed (perhaps wrongly), Heaton staff wouldn't sign 155s? Certainly is the case elsewhere that fitters must be trained on each traction type - though its not something I know much about. For heavier exams is it less specific and more generic?
During my time at Heaton a few years back the traction signed on depot were classes 08, 43, 142, 156, 158 and 180. Other stock to visit the depot (which at the time was classes 91, 144, 150, 153, 155 and 185) needed different arrangements to move on depot, in the case of the 91s and the 185s that was a driver from the TOC that operated them (who would sign the depot so no need for a route conductor). I'm not entirely certain what the procedure for moving 144s, 153s and 155s on depot was at the time.

I think the 155s are extremely similar to 156s so no extra knowledge
The two types require a traction conversion course. Though there are many similarites between the two classes there are also some significant differences, not least the presence of plug doors on the 155s vs sliding doors on the 156s.
 

secretsquirels

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Heaton carry out a lot of the heavier exams on Northern's DMU fleet and have for a long time. The only units operated by Northern that don't visit Heaton periodically for heavier work are the EMU fleet, the 170s and the 195s. 150s are also semi-regular visitors to Heaton, as were the 144s and the 153s before they were withdrawn.

Movements of anything from the Northern fleet other than a 158 between York and Darlington are usually operated by ROG (Rail Operations Group). In theory a York driver could take any unit they sign (which would include a 155) on their own as far as Newcastle, but would need a route conductor for the last bit on to Heaton - it's often easier to contract the move out than it is to provide a route conductor for such a move. Movements of 150s/155s from Neville Hill to Heaton can be counteracted by a 156 going the other way to use the wheel lathe at Neville Hill which makes it a round trip rather than a one way working for the ROG driver.

With regards to the 142 moves in question previously, the 142s in question were allocated to Heaton and would return periodically for exams. If for whatever reason the units sent to Heaton didn't need an exam (altered diagrams following disruption for example) they could be returned south pretty much straight away, but this wasn't common.


During my time at Heaton a few years back the traction signed on depot were classes 08, 43, 142, 156, 158 and 180. Other stock to visit the depot (which at the time was classes 91, 144, 150, 153, 155 and 185) needed different arrangements to move on depot, in the case of the 91s and the 185s that was a driver from the TOC that operated them (who would sign the depot so no need for a route conductor). I'm not entirely certain what the procedure for moving 144s, 153s and 155s on depot was at the time.


The two types require a traction conversion course. Though there are many similarites between the two classes there are also some significant differences, not least the presence of plug doors on the 155s vs sliding doors on the 156s.
Where on earth did you got that info from? It’s complete nonsense. Depot drivers at Heaton sign (or did sign when the classes used Heaton);
08, 142, 144, 156, 158, 180, 185, 802.
Certain “old hands” and DTM’s also signed 153/155 in order to move on Heaton.
You can easily move any BSI coupler Northern unit around by propelling it.
 

DanNCL

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Where on earth did you got that info from? It’s complete nonsense. Depot drivers at Heaton sign (or did sign when the classes used Heaton);
08, 142, 144, 156, 158, 180, 185, 802.
Certain “old hands” and DTM’s also signed 153/155 in order to move on Heaton.
You can easily move any BSI coupler Northern unit around by propelling it.
It’s not complete nonsense. I recognise it’s a few years out of date (hence the absence of class 802) and accordingly noted that in my post.

If you were referring partially to my mention of class 43, they were previously signed by depot drivers for moving the Grand Central sets.
 

Dood75

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There might have been time to get to Heaton and back but based on pictures I've seen theres very few occasions where the same units came back.

This 155 movement I'm told was this https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:K66504/2022-01-16/detailed

Given that we know that 158 3 car units go to Heaton for heavy exams it seems entirely plausible that this 155 has gone there for that too.


Given Heaton doesn't have a wheel lathe that seems unlikely!
Im 99.9% certain it had already gone up to Heaton before that....over a week ago at least and I seem to remember noting it on RTT allocated to the 5A60 departure from York which is listed most nights on RTT...I was equally surprised to see the allocation myself and wondered why a 155 was heading to the NorthEast
 

Dood75

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Im 99.9% certain it had already gone up to Heaton before that....over a week ago at least and I seem to remember noting it on RTT allocated to the 5A60 departure from York which is listed most nights on RTT...I was equally surprised to see the allocation myself and wondered why a 155 was heading to the NorthEast
Apologies...that appears to not be the case.. back at the end of December it was 155343 which was showing as allocated but it looks like it never materialised
 

DanNCL

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Am I right in thinking that Heaton is used because it has the spare space after a lot of its allocation’s routes have been converted to Tyne and Wear Metro operation over time?
Space is the primary reason for Heaton being used to carry out many of the heavy overhauls on Neville Hill and Newton Heath allocated units. I'm not familiar with the setup at Newton Heath or Allerton, but certainly Neville Hill has more facilities than Heaton has.

Heaton's allocation actually grew when Metro opened, as prior to the opening of Metro the DMU fleet was allocated to Gosforth. Though many of the DMUs were transferred directly from Gosforth to other regions, some had to stay in the North East to work the remaining unelectrified lines in the region, and those units transferred to Heaton. Prior to the opening of Metro and the resultant transfer of DMUs from Gosforth, Heaton was primarily a HST depot.

When the East Coast Main Line was electrified Heaton lost it's HST allocation - Heaton's HSTs being transferred to the Midland Main Line and their replacements on the ECML being Bounds Green allocated 91+Mark 4 sets. Though 91+Mark 4 sets stabled at Heaton, not being allocated there, there were never as many of them at Heaton at any given time as there were HSTs prior. Around a decade later Heaton ceased to be used to stable any XC stock, the loco hauled stock and HSTs previously stabled at Heaton being replaced by Voyagers stabled at Tyne Yard.

The only Northern units Heaton regularly has to stable is it's own allocation and more than half of it will be outstabled elsewhere at any given time, whereas Northern's other depots have to stable some stock from each other's allocations in addition to whatever percentage of that depot's own allocation is usually there at any given time - both Allerton and Neville Hill stable Newton Heath allocated units on a daily basis, and Newton Heath stables Neville Hill allocated units.

Those factors combined, likely along with others that I've forgotten (and probably some I don't know of too) contribute to Heaton having more space available than most UK depots.

Im 99.9% certain it had already gone up to Heaton before that....over a week ago at least and I seem to remember noting it on RTT allocated to the 5A60 departure from York which is listed most nights on RTT...I was equally surprised to see the allocation myself and wondered why a 155 was heading to the NorthEast
Apologies...that appears to not be the case.. back at the end of December it was 155343 which was showing as allocated but it looks like it never materialised
155s share Hull - York work with Heaton allocated 158s. What likely happened will have been that the 155 ended up being swapped onto a service that should have used one of Heaton's 158s, and was automatically filled in for the remainder of the diagram. The allocation will have been subsequently manually checked, it spotted that the 155 was on a diagram that would (if not altered) send the unit up to Heaton, and arrangements quickly made to ensure that the correct units ended up in the correct place. It would be very unusual for anything other than a 158 to appear on the 5A60 working you quote, and if something other than a 158 were to turn up for it I'd expect the driver would likely query the allocation with control before taking the unit, even if the unit was a class that they signed.

It's not too uncommon for such allocations to appear on the likes of RTT, but very rare that such an allocation will actually be the unit that turns up.
 

secretsquirels

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Heaton has four lines specifically for long term storage called the “standage”, numbered 1,2,4 and 5. Can easily fit over 10 vehicles on each. That’s where the 142’s were kept in storage, and if GC have a spare 180 that is normally kept there for a few days at a time.
 

sbrignall72

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Have the 155's and 170's been formally allocated to Botanic Gardens, Hull yet. I thought they were due to transfer with December timetable change.
 
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