Southern timetable changes consultation Coastway West

Eastwestjct · 17 Aug 2023

PGAT said:
Would the plans be any less popular if the Victoria services went to Southampton and the Brighton services went to Portsmouth?

I think Southampton vic and Portsmouth Brighton would have been better option.

I understand what is trying to be achieved however the slowing down of trains and having to change will drive people away (after all journey planner drives demand) currently many journeys route via east Croydon and Thames link to avoid tube.

This will loose share of airport trade.

punctuality may not improve as much as they think. Barnham to Chichester will go up to 6 trains and hour with 2 terminating and having to dispatched to siding will make a bottle neck.

Secondly the 6 trains an hour Barnham to Chichester is still going to be affected with earlier late running.

RailUK Forums

PedroHav · 18 Aug 2023

With regards to the change of trains for passengers west of Havant (Fareham, Swanwick, possibly Woolston, Southampton and West of Southampton) going to Gatwick as we know luggage space of the 377s is extremely limited. If you've also got to change train with luggage it's certainly going to put people off.

LCRTrainfan979 · 12 Sep 2023

JonathanH said:
I read it as the Littlehampton to Bognor services are replaced by the Brighton to Chichester services. Passengers for Bognor change at Barnham.

From personal experience living in Bognor, the 700 coastliner bus is usually a better option than the train, because it serves more areas within Bognor Regis (within suburbs), it is up to three times more frequent, and its only £2 right now. I personally use the train to get to Littlehampton because its cheaper with a saver railcard, but once I turn eighteen, I'm probably going to switch to the bus. I think it was basically a matter of time until that service went, and the moment I saw a poster about all these changes, I knew this was going to happen, and I read some report published in 2020 with loads of suggestions, which included the withdrawal of direct trains from Bognor to Littlehampton, replaced by a doubled Barnham shuttle and another service from Chichester to Littlehampton. I do personally think though it is a missed opportunity to create a service from Bognor towards Brighton (basically have one Brighton to Chichester via Littlehampton service, and one Brighton to Bognor service via Littlehampton), but I guess that theres just more demand from Littlehampton towards Chichester.

Islineclear3_1 · 10 Dec 2023

I've had a quick look at Southern's website and put in a couple of weekday dates after 10th December - still showing the same timetable as now.... And using the National Rail Journey Planner still shows a change at Hove for Littlehampton (from Victoria)...

So the timetables haven't yet been updated...

swt_passenger · 10 Dec 2023

Islineclear3_1 said:
I've had a quick look at Southern's website and put in a couple of weekday dates after 10th December - still showing the same timetable as now.... And using the National Rail Journey Planner still shows a change at Hove for Littlehampton (from Victoria)...

So the timetables haven't yet been updated...

I don’t think Dec 23 was ever a possible start date, the consultation period only closed at the end of September.

Islineclear3_1 · 10 Dec 2023

swt_passenger said:
I don’t think Dec 23 was ever a possible start date, the consultation period only closed at the end of September.

Oh I thought they changed on 10th December....?

moley · 10 Dec 2023

Consultation was for May 2024 onwards.

Peregrine 4903 · 10 Dec 2023

Timetable is for June24, next timetable change date.

Islineclear3_1 · 10 Dec 2023

Peregrine 4903 said:
Timetable is for June24, next timetable change date.

okay thanks

winks · 10 Dec 2023

Not happy with the loss of the Portsmouth directs to Brighton. People living in this city really do get a poor deal.

swt_passenger · 10 Dec 2023

moley said:
Consultation was for May 2024 onwards.

Would a change such as this by next May/June still need a NR or ORR consultation, because after a quick search I haven’t found one?

JonathanH · 10 Dec 2023

winks said:
Not happy with the loss of the Portsmouth directs to Brighton. People living in this city really do get a poor deal.

There will equally be people disappointed with the loss of Southampton to Gatwick trains, but the regularisation of the timetable should make things better overall.

OneOfThe48 · 10 Dec 2023

winks said:
Not happy with the loss of the Portsmouth directs to Brighton. People living in this city really do get a poor deal.

Hope you put an email in then, was a consultation after all!

Assuming we’ll hear what comes of the proposals at some point.

30907 · 10 Dec 2023

winks said:
Not happy with the loss of the Portsmouth directs to Brighton. People living in this city really do get a poor deal.

I hope you made your views known?

Islineclear3_1 · 10 Dec 2023

winks said:
Not happy with the loss of the Portsmouth directs to Brighton. People living in this city really do get a poor deal.

Realistically, how many passengers travel from Portsmouth to Brighton - i.e. end to end?

moley · 10 Dec 2023

Islineclear3_1 said:
Realistically, how many passengers travel from Portsmouth to Brighton - i.e. end to end?

Quote a few, especially at weekends.

PGAT · 10 Dec 2023

According to ORR's new destination matrix:

13,119 people travelled from Brighton to Portsmouth Harbour
15,459 people travelled from Brighton to Portsmouth & Southsea
17,235 people travelled from Brighton to Fratton
in each direction

Comparatively 33,269 went from Brighton to Southampton Central each way

dastocks · 11 Dec 2023

PGAT said:
According to ORR's new destination matrix:

13,119 people travelled from Brighton to Portsmouth Harbour
15,459 people travelled from Brighton to Portsmouth & Southsea
17,235 people travelled from Brighton to Fratton
in each direction

Comparatively 33,269 went from Brighton to Southampton Central each way

But what about the other intermediate stations on the route to Southampton? You would have to include those to make it a valid comparison. I used to commute between Brighton and Cosham. Even Cosham to Havant is very poorly served in the current timetable, as you rapidly find out when the service from Southampton is cancelled.

LCRTrainfan979 · 29 Dec 2023

PGAT said:
According to ORR's new destination matrix:

13,119 people travelled from Brighton to Portsmouth Harbour
15,459 people travelled from Brighton to Portsmouth & Southsea
17,235 people travelled from Brighton to Fratton
in each direction

Comparatively 33,269 went from Brighton to Southampton Central each way

What document is that in? Thats just because I'm kinda want to look into those stats in further detail by looking through the intermediate stations towards brighton about whether these changes are actually a good idea.

JonathanH · 29 Dec 2023

LCRTrainfan979 said:
What document is that in? Thats just because I'm kinda want to look into those stats in further detail by looking through the intermediate stations towards brighton about whether these changes are actually a good idea.

It is summarised here - https://railalefan.co.uk/labs/flowstats/BTN/ - but comes from ORR data - see https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/orr-origin-destination-matrix-2021-22.258641

LCRTrainfan979 · 9 Jan 2024

Does anyone have any ideas or guesses as to when southern will announce whether or not it will take forward the proposals for the west coastway line? I know they are meant for June 2024, but I'm kinda curious when they will reveal the final changes, particularly radical ones like southern are proposing.

pompeyfan · 10 Jan 2024

LCRTrainfan979 said:
Does anyone have any ideas or guesses as to when southern will announce whether or not it will take forward the proposals for the west coastway line? I know they are meant for June 2024, but I'm kinda curious when they will reveal the final changes, particularly radical ones like southern are proposing.

I believe they are pushing ahead with it, but the Chichester stopper will now continue to Portsmouth, so that (on paper) Portsmouth is still connected with Brighton, even if the plan is to loop it somewhere like Barnham or Worthing.

moley · 10 Jan 2024

pompeyfan said:
I believe they are pushing ahead with it, but the Chichester stopper will now continue to Portsmouth, so that (on paper) Portsmouth is still connected with Brighton, even if the plan is to loop it somewhere like Barnham or Worthing.

This is sensible:
1. The Chichester proposal was a big departure from current service agreement.
2. Feedback from officials in Portsmouth were not happy at loosing the fast service from Fratton to Chichester calling only at Havant. Presumably one Victoria service can now still run faster to Chichester.
3. With careful timetabling should only use one extra unit which is still an improvement on now.

OneOfThe48 · 10 Jan 2024

pompeyfan said:
I believe they are pushing ahead with it, but the Chichester stopper will now continue to Portsmouth, so that (on paper) Portsmouth is still connected with Brighton, even if the plan is to loop it somewhere like Barnham or Worthing.

That sounds interesting, where have you heard that? Haven’t seen any rumblings in the local media (yet?) about Brighton to Portsmouth being saved

evergreenadam · 10 Jan 2024

moley said:
This is sensible:
1. The Chichester proposal was a big departure from current service agreement.
2. Feedback from officials in Portsmouth were not happy at loosing the fast service from Fratton to Chichester calling only at Havant. Presumably one Victoria service can now still run faster to Chichester.
3. With careful timetabling should only use one extra unit which is still an improvement on now.

How many units would the original proposals have saved or would it have been neutral?

pompeyfan · 10 Jan 2024

OneOfThe48 said:
That sounds interesting, where have you heard that? Haven’t seen any rumblings in the local media (yet?) about Brighton to Portsmouth being saved

My source is someone who is directly involved in the reactionary changes that are needed by a different operator, I can’t say much more than that unfortunately.

OneOfThe48 · 10 Jan 2024

pompeyfan said:
My source is someone who is directly involved in the reactionary changes that are needed by a different operator, I can’t say much more than that unfortunately.

Say no more, sounds like it would be a good change for Southern to make to the proposals so will take it as good news

moley · 10 Jan 2024

I can't remember if it was 2 or 3 units being saved by better turnaround times and dropping the third Chichester - Portsmouth service. One of these will now be needed for the third service to Portsmouth.

There were due to be 2 Chichester stoppers per hour, only one will continue to Portsmouth. What seems to be up for discussion is where they terminate in Portsmouth. The proposal had put both services going to the Harbour. With the third service coming back, certain that all three won't be pathed beyond Portsmouth & Southsea. Indeed, one suggestion was that one service may terminate at Fratton platform 2 with good onward timetabled connections. Especially now that Fratton is the busiest station in Portsmouth.

PTR 444 · 10 Jan 2024

moley said:
Especially now that Fratton is the busiest station in Portsmouth.

But surely more people would want to visit the city centre and its maritime quarter rather than a suburb with its footballl ground?

pompeyfan · 10 Jan 2024

I haven’t spoken to the person involved since October so it may now be out of date, so might be worth baring in mind.

The Brighton service was listed as Portsmouth & Southsea.

Southern timetable changes consultation Coastway West

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