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Is the section of gwml beteen Paddington and reading the worst maintained line in the country?

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RJ

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Nice day yesterday - caught the 14:54 Cardiff to Paddington which was a lovely pair of 387s - not booked but much preferable to a cancellation. Got the 2249 from Paddington back to Cardiff, the service isn't safe from disruption at this time of day - delay replay claimable for both :(

Slightly off topic, does anyone know why the 2314 Paddington to Oxford doesn't set down at Reading? It is pickup only and leaves a 41 minute gap in the Paddington to Reading fast service!
 
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Jamesrob637

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Nice day yesterday - caught the 14:54 Cardiff to Paddington which was a lovely pair of 387s - not booked but much preferable to a cancellation. Got the 2249 from Paddington back to Cardiff, the service isn't safe from disruption at this time of day - delay replay claimable for both :(

Slightly off topic, does anyone know why the 2314 Paddington to Oxford doesn't set down at Reading? It is pickup only and leaves a 41 minute gap in the Paddington to Reading fast service!

The 14:54 ex-Cardiff was 17 minutes late by Paddington. Wonder whether this was due to lack of speed or another factor? It lost ten of those minutes just between Reading and Paddington for the purpose of the topic!
 

Benjwri

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The 14:54 ex-Cardiff was 17 minutes late by Paddington. Wonder whether this was due to lack of speed or another factor? It lost ten of those minutes just between Reading and Paddington for the purpose of the topic!
It was late to Reading, and therefore missed its path, it got stuck behind 1K23 and 2P60, which it should've been ahead of, because it was slotted in directly in behind 1K23, and 1K23 was running early, but then caught 2P60, which itself was stuck behind 1Y67, which was held slightly for 1A25, which had been heavily delayed as 1A85 and 1A86 had missed their paths due to delays in Exeter, and were slotted in together.

I think this does portray why people who are claiming the GWML service could be more intense are wrong. As it is you have trains from across the southwest arriving, travelling hundreds of miles, with two similarly sized flows converging at one point, and the gaps between trains being as little as 4 minutes, after which a train misses its path and delays another. In an ideal word there are some gaps, but in reality trains don't arrive on time, and without those gaps the entire service would suffer continually worsening delays throughout the day, with no chance to catch up.
 

nickswift99

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It was late to Reading, and therefore missed its path, it got stuck behind 1K23 and 2P60 because it was slotted in directly in behind 1K23, and 1K23 was slightly delayed because it was running early, then caught 2P60, which itself was stuck behind 1Y67, which was held slightly for 1A25, which had been heavily delayed as 1A85 and 1A86 had missed their paths due to delays in Exeter, and were slotted in together.

I think this does portray why people who are claiming the GWML service could be more intense are wrong. As it is you have trains from across the southwest arriving, travelling hundreds of miles, with two similarly sized flows converging at one point, and the gaps between trains being as little as 4 minutes, after which a train misses its path and delays another. In an ideal word there are some gaps, but in reality trains don't arrive on time, and without those gaps the entire service would suffer continually worsening delays throughout the day, with no chance to catch up.
That's why there's a long dwell at Reading for the ex Newbury and Didcot services. GWR should consider doing the same for some of the longer distance services to regulate the flow better. Won't be popular in terms of extending journey times but given how much more intensive the lines are being used it's hard to see any other alternative and maintain a reliable timetable.
 

Benjwri

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GWR should consider doing the same for some of the longer distance services to regulate the flow better. Won't be popular in terms of extending journey times but given how much more intensive the lines are being used it's hard to see any other alternative and maintain a reliable timetable.
Even though the trains are getting stuck behind each other, most are only losing a few minutes because there is a fair bit of slack. An extra train is able to slot in and not cause too much issue, it affects a lot of trains but only minorly. I don't think there is an issue that requires regulation like that, except when you get multiple slow running trains, one behind the other I've never seen one lose enough time that anyone would even complain, which is the point of not trying to run more services. Its only when issues close a line that trains really start getting delayed, and this wouldn't help that. I don't really see the need for such aa drastic measure, especially given there is no space for it at Reading.
 

nickswift99

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Even though the trains are getting stuck behind each other, most are only losing a few minutes because there is a fair bit of slack. An extra train is able to slot in and not cause too much issue, it affects a lot of trains but only minorly. I don't think there is an issue that requires regulation like that, except when you get multiple slow running trains, one behind the other I've never seen one lose enough time that anyone would even complain, which is the point of not trying to run more services. Its only when issues close a line that trains really start getting delayed, and this wouldn't help that. I don't really see the need for such aa drastic measure, especially given there is no space for it at Reading.
Given that line closures are happening on an almost daily basis and have a massive impact over extended periods of times, until the infrastructure becomes more resilient, I don't see how GWR can run a reliable service without thinning out or planning extended dwells to provide better regulation. Having multiple trains queuing, as you describe, can lead to the classic motorway-style traffic jams.

There clearly is space at Reading, as the default contingency plan turns services at Reading in any event.
 

Benjwri

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Given that line closures are happening on an almost daily basis and have a massive impact over extended periods of times, until the infrastructure becomes more resilient, I don't see how GWR can run a reliable service without thinning out or planning extended dwells to provide better regulation. Having multiple trains queuing, as you describe, can lead to the classic motorway-style traffic jams.
Which is effectively what happens with turning trains around at Reading. Traffic jams happen yes, and people are a bit late, but why should the solution be just throw in the towel, make everything slower all the time or get rid of train services entirely. Also to be clear when a line is closed longer dwell is not going to make a single bit of difference, because you're still sending the same number of trains down. Extended dwells would only allow delays before the dwell to be migitated, however in general delays before Reading do not affect trains too much
There clearly is space at Reading, as the default contingency plan turns services at Reading in any event.
Really depends how long you're holding trains, there isn't really space if you want to make a noticable difference. Heading away from London you have platforms 7, 8 and 9. One of these can't be used at points when you're running full service as it is used by CrossCountry, so you cant rely on it 100% of the time. Using 2 platforms in the up direction allows service recovery, and regardless none of these platforms can by accessed by trains travelling from the South West, so would have limited usefulness, with a conflicting move out of the platform across the Up Main.

You then have Platforms 10 and 11. If you wanted you could use these platforms to extend dwells, however if both are filled at the same time it harms service resilience, as a train out of the correct order would be forced to wait behind a train it should be in front of, increasing its delay. So using these two platforms for extending dwells you can extend them until the next train arrives, in general this is about 8 minutes, not much longer than currently, I don't really see a significant benefit to this, a slightly late train might now make its path, but realistically the benefit to anyone is minimal, the passenger gets to their destination a few minutes earlier.

Platform 12 needs to be free for trains on the Down Slow, Platform 13 & 14 are often used simultaneously by the Elizabeth Line, in the peaks, and GWR services stopping outside, Platform 15 is used for GWR Stoppers in the peaks, and depot moves, freight etc out the peak. There is very little space to be timetabling in long dwells.
 

nickswift99

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Which is effectively what happens with turning trains around at Reading. Traffic jams happen yes, and people are a bit late, but why should the solution be just throw in the towel, make everything slower all the time or get rid of train services entirely. Also to be clear when a line is closed longer dwell is not going to make a single bit of difference, because you're still sending the same number of trains down. Extended dwells would only allow delays before the dwell to be migitated, however in general delays before Reading do not affect trains too much

Really depends how long you're holding trains, there isn't really space if you want to make a noticable difference. Heading away from London you have platforms 7, 8 and 9. One of these can't be used at points when you're running full service as it is used by CrossCountry, so you cant rely on it 100% of the time. Using 2 platforms in the up direction allows service recovery, and regardless none of these platforms can by accessed by trains travelling from the South West, so would have limited usefulness, with a conflicting move out of the platform across the Up Main.

You then have Platforms 10 and 11. If you wanted you could use these platforms to extend dwells, however if both are filled at the same time it harms service resilience, as a train out of the correct order would be forced to wait behind a train it should be in front of, increasing its delay. So using these two platforms for extending dwells you can extend them until the next train arrives, in general this is about 8 minutes, not much longer than currently, I don't really see a significant benefit to this, a slightly late train might now make its path, but realistically the benefit to anyone is minimal, the passenger gets to their destination a few minutes earlier.

Platform 12 needs to be free for trains on the Down Slow, Platform 13 & 14 are often used simultaneously by the Elizabeth Line, in the peaks, and GWR services stopping outside, Platform 15 is used for GWR Stoppers in the peaks, and depot moves, freight etc out the peak. There is very little space to be timetabling in long dwells.
What is the alternative then? Reducing the number of services on the PAD-RDG section?
 

Benjwri

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What is the alternative then? Reducing the number of services on the PAD-RDG section?
Network Rail investing in proper maintenance procedures, and unfortunately just dealing with the number of delays in the meantime.
 

irish_rail

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I've never known a period like it. Most other staff agree they haven't experienced anything like the past 6 months or so on the Western. Some serious money needs spending. I'm no expert, I don't know exactly where it needs spending, but someone needs to throw some money at it , whether it is on more boots on the ground, more renewals, and better management of disruption. We hear alot about how bad things are on Avanti, but the GWML (and its various sub routes) are in a dire state. Off topic I know, but massive disruption today west of Newton Abbott due to several signal failures. What used to occur weekly, now occurs daily. Someone at network rail needs to step up and demand some money from Dft.
 

Annetts key

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Someone at network rail needs to step up and demand some money from Dft.
The law needs changing so that the treasury has to pay the costs of any and all train delays without the existing funding for the railways being affected. Maybe experiencing the unpredictable delay costs would encourage the money people to prefer to spend more on proper maintenance and renewals.

In addition, the normal arrangements of identifying the root cause should continue. As there are other possibilities rather than just a lack of money.
 

Acton1991

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Should something more drastic now be done to help the performance of this line? I don’t know what, but if you were in charge, what would you do?
 

RailWonderer

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Actually there are services which are notably more intense than this. The GEML, long before the Liz Line, had a peak service intensity much greater, and is also paired by use which makes crossover moves more conflicting. Yet it was never in this constant planned cancellations mode.

And my own experiences, waiting on Slough platform in the peak and looking across the four tracks, is that it's not at all what I would consider "at capacity".
I was thinking the exact same thing. On Tuesday I was on a non-stop Reading that should have called at Slough and Maidenhead. GWR has been doing this skip stopping for years now when there is minor disruption. Years back when I used both GA and GWR regularly, GA even in the high peak never skip stopped even in disruption when headways were 3 mins.
 

Jimini

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I was thinking the exact same thing. On Tuesday I was on a non-stop Reading that should have called at Slough and Maidenhead. GWR has been doing this skip stopping for years now when there is minor disruption. Years back when I used both GA and GWR regularly, GA even in the high peak never skip stopped even in disruption when headways were 3 mins.

The western bit of GA sure do!
 

Jamiescott1

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I wrote to my MP regarding the poor performance of this section of track.
I recieved a reply fairly quickly stating she would raise it with the transport secretary.
I recieved a letter from the transport secretary last week confirming the review that we knew was taking place.

Yesterday and today there was overhead line damage at Didcot parkway affecting services
 

fgwrich

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I wrote to my MP regarding the poor performance of this section of track.
I recieved a reply fairly quickly stating she would raise it with the transport secretary.
I recieved a letter from the transport secretary last week confirming the review that we knew was taking place.

Yesterday and today there was overhead line damage at Didcot parkway affecting services
Today seems to have been another farce on the Western between Didcot and Padd. This afternoon was Points failure between Reading and Paddington, and to compound that Didcot to Reading is now closed this evening.
 

Horizon22

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Today seems to have been another farce on the Western between Didcot and Padd. This afternoon was Points failure between Reading and Paddington, and to compound that Didcot to Reading is now closed this evening.

I believe tonight Network Rail are blocking Didcot - Reading to rectify this ongoing OLE issue.

The points issue seemed to be resolved with an hour so can’t have been too serious.
 

fgwrich

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I believe tonight Network Rail are blocking Didcot - Reading to rectify this ongoing OLE issue.

The points issue seemed to be resolved with an hour so can’t have been too serious.
Maybe so, but GWR have just announced that the line is now closed which potentially indicates that either the damage is worse than expected, requiring a longer block or further damage has occurred this evening. A normal closure would have gone a little less under the radar than a total "Line is now closed" statement, especially as half an hour ago they were saying "Less Trains than normal will run until the end of service". I hate using the word farce, but it's not a pretty picture - I'm glad I'm not commuting on the Western anymore!

As an aside, a freedom of information request has been placed. There's some pretty depressing figures!


 

Benjwri

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Didcot to Reading slow lines closed until end of service Wednesday (17th), so an entire day.
 

Benjwri

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They are open now. Currently on 2P34 which is running on the Up Relief.
Ahh interesting. GWR Twitter was saying they would be closed till end of day 17th, and even confirmed it wasn’t a typo. I guess other a mistake by them or finished early.
 

Horizon22

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Ahh interesting. GWR Twitter was saying they would be closed till end of day 17th, and even confirmed it wasn’t a typo. I guess other a mistake by them or finished early.

Quite a large gap between end of day and 0900!
 

Benjwri

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Quite a large gap between end of day and 0900!
Yeah I don't think whoever made that announcement was having a good day, they announced on both Twitter and JourneyCheck:
Due to damage to the overhead electric wires between Didcot Parkway and Reading, the line is closed. Train services running to and from these stations will be cancelled. Disruption is expected until the end of the day on 17/01/24.
That statement makes it sound like no trains between Reading and Didcot at all, plus the obvious wrong end time, however if you went onto journey check iit showed the same headline statement, however right at the bottom of the info it said something to the effect of 'fast trains are still running between Reading and Didcot'. Reckon that one gave quite a few people a heart attack for their morning commute!
 

ChewChewTrain

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I checked late last night and it definitely said intermediate stations between RDG and DID would only be served by road transport (oh, the horror) all day today. Clearly, last night’s repairs went a lot better than anticipated.

Still, I quite enjoyed getting an IET to and from Reading for once on Monday. I filmed it stopping, naturally. I was looking out for the dispatcher since I knew from here that those trains can’t otherwise serve stations without their own platform dispatch.

(I was curious whether the overhead and side displays would have Tilehurst etc in their database(s). I can confirm they did! I filmed that too, of course…)
 

Horizon22

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I checked late last night and it definitely said intermediate stations between RDG and DID would only be served by road transport (oh, the horror) all day today. Clearly, last night’s repairs went a lot better than anticipated.

Still, I quite enjoyed getting an IET to and from Reading for once on Monday. I filmed it stopping, naturally. I was looking out for the dispatcher since I knew from here that those trains can’t otherwise serve stations without their own platform dispatch.

(I was curious whether the overhead and side displays would have Tilehurst etc in their database(s). I can confirm they did! I filmed that too, of course…)

Might have been dispatched by a Train Manager?
 

ChewChewTrain

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Might have been dispatched by a Train Manager?
On the way back, I saw a chap who just sat at the back of the carriage, not interacting with passengers, and whose only job seemed to be stepping out and dispatching at stations. I was curious about what his “normal” job was; I thought maybe platform dispatch (although he wasn’t wearing a hi-vis jacket).
 
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On the way back, I saw a chap who just sat at the back of the carriage, not interacting with passengers, and whose only job seemed to be stepping out and dispatching at stations. I was curious about what his “normal” job was; I thought maybe platform dispatch (although he wasn’t wearing a hi-vis jacket).

It would have been the train manager. IET’s cannot run with out one unless there is a platform dispatcher at all the stations it calls at. Hence the need for one when stopping at Tilehurst, Pangbourne etc. as these do not have dispatchers.
 

JamesT

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South Today just had a report by Paul Clifton where he referenced a FOI query for disruption between Paddington and Reading in the year to November 2023. Apparently there were 361 days where there was some sort of disruption for which Network Rail were responsible. (And 363 days where GWR were).
 
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