Train strikes and trainee drivers.

SiTheTrainGuy · 1 Feb 2024

As someone who will be brand new to the railway starting as a driver apprentice this year 'off the street', I was wondering how the ongoing strike action affects trainee drivers? Whether that's in the classroom or while practically out on the trains with a mentor. Also again as someone who is a complete railway 'noob' what would the expectation be regarding strike action for someone who is just starting out?

Thanks

RailUK Forums

anglian96 · 1 Feb 2024

Classroom training would resume but if out with a mentor doing your train handling you would strike to.

Train_manager · 1 Feb 2024

SiTheTrainGuy said:
As someone who will be brand new to the railway starting as a driver apprentice this year 'off the street', I was wondering how the ongoing strike action affects trainee drivers? Whether that's in the classroom or while practically out on the trains with a mentor. Also again as someone who is a complete railway 'noob' what would the expectation be regarding strike action for someone who is just starting out?

Thanks

If you have joined ASLEF during your classroom training, which normally you do.

If ASLEF calls for strike then you would normally be expected to follow it.

Good luck with the training.

ChooChooseMe · 1 Feb 2024

I think it would depend on your local company council, I was training during the 2022 strikes and our company council said quite categorically that they did not want the strikes to affect our training, so we did work on teams and at home etc any practical stuff would stop but the theory side was allowed to continue.

FatContr0ller · 1 Feb 2024

Train_manager said:
If you have joined ASLEF during your classroom training, which normally you do.

If ASLEF calls for strike then you would normally be expected to follow it.

Good luck with the training.

Im RMT since came up from internal promotion and will stay in my union as a driver.
I will follow ASLEF strike days through solidarity( by never crossing a picket if one is held at my depot when I am due to book on) when I am fully qualified, until then me striking does nothing except delay my training. Makes zero difference to my TOC, the service or passengers if I strike or not.

Edited for clarity by advice

Train_manager · 1 Feb 2024

FatContr0ller said:
Im RMT since came up from internal promotion and will stay in my union as a driver.
I will follow ASLEF strike days through solidarity (never cross a picket!) when I am fully qualified, until then me striking does nothing except delay my training. Makes zero difference to my TOC, the service or passengers if I strike or not.

I may be mistaken but didn't think you could do that.

If ASLEF calls a strike and your union(RMT)(cos there not in dispute with your company) doesn't then you would be required to go to work.

Only non-union members would be protected.

Horizon22 · 1 Feb 2024

Train_manager said:
I may be mistaken but didn't think you could do that.

If ASLEF calls a strike and your union(RMT)(cos there not in dispute with your company) doesn't then you would be required to go to work.

Only non-union members would be protected.

The train company does however not know who is in the union and who isn't.

FatContr0ller · 1 Feb 2024

Train_manager said:
I may be mistaken but didn't think you could do that.

If ASLEF calls a strike and your union(RMT)(cos there not in dispute with your company) doesn't then you would be required to go to work.

Only non-union members would be protected.

Even non union members can join the picket line, you have the "same" protection as union members (no disciplinary etc in connection with striking) but obviously you dont have the backing of the union power to call a local dispute on your sacking (which would be totally unconnected to your striking for sure(!)

During the RMT station staff dispute we had TSSA and some drivers even joining our pickets

Seehof · 1 Feb 2024

If you are currently in the RMT union and are now driving I strongly suggest you change your union to ASLEF as you will have better protection in all matters relating to your job.

Bigfoot · 1 Feb 2024

SiTheTrainGuy said:
As someone who will be brand new to the railway starting as a driver apprentice this year 'off the street', I was wondering how the ongoing strike action affects trainee drivers? Whether that's in the classroom or while practically out on the trains with a mentor. Also again as someone who is a complete railway 'noob' what would the expectation be regarding strike action for someone who is just starting out?

Thanks

As you are completely new to the railway and will be in your probation/training you will probably be expected to still attend. I would speak with your union rep once you join and the training school staff. It might be that you learn from home on the strike days if they are still happening when you start.

FatContr0ller · 1 Feb 2024

Seehof said:
If you are currently in the RMT union and are now driving I strongly suggest you change your union to ASLEF as you will have better protection in all matters relating to your job.

Yep I've been told that - trouble is I'm loyal to my union, and RMT is my union. Will just have to reap the whirlwind. In my depot there are a few RMT drivers, so at least I'm not alone.

Raikkonen7 · 1 Feb 2024

When strikes coincided with classroom training, we didn’t attend training school that day. We all signed into teams and went through previous content with our trainer, however, we weren’t allowed to be taught any new content through teams.

Train_manager · 1 Feb 2024

FatContr0ller said:
Yep I've been told that - trouble is I'm loyal to my union, and RMT is my union. Will just have to reap the whirlwind. In my depot there are a few RMT drivers, so at least I'm not alone.

And save yourself a bit on union subs

Do RMT send you a free diary?

officewalla · 2 Feb 2024

Horizon22 said:
The train company does however not know who is in the union and who isn't.

Not quite true as there are ways of this to be found out. The assumption may be that every driver is a member of ASLEF but the rosters team in my TOC seem to know otherwise. Perhaps it is the fact that non ASLEF members still book on at their rostered time?

SiTheTrainGuy said:
As someone who will be brand new to the railway starting as a driver apprentice this year 'off the street', I was wondering how the ongoing strike action affects trainee drivers? Whether that's in the classroom or while practically out on the trains with a mentor. Also again as someone who is a complete railway 'noob' what would the expectation be regarding strike action for someone who is just starting out?

Thanks

If you are not a member of ASLEF then book on as rostered (or rather when your instructor is rostered) and you will at least get paid. Not your fault there is no handling training to do.

stXeve · 2 Feb 2024

Alot of rubbish answers. Speak to the LLC and go with what they advise. Different TOCs will have different ways of doing things. My TOC differs between depots.

vikingdriver · 3 Feb 2024

At my TOC agreement was reached (presumably across all depots) that non fully productive drivers would book on and continue their learning from home. We have RMT driver members as well, they respect the strike and do not cross the picket.

Gemz91 · 3 Feb 2024

RMT member at our place striked on both RMT and ASLEF strike days, until the point the strikes got to the level where he could not afford to strike on both days.

Wouldn’t the only way to know for sure who’s in the union or not be to have the list of names from the union? And if so wouldn’t this be against privacy laws?

As for striking, as others have said try and speak to a local rep and see what the agreement is. If there are trainees on your course, speak to them as they may have connections who the reps are already.

Don’t forget your not the first person to be training during a strike, the person leading the course may be able to answer your questions too and don’t forget they might also be an ASLEF member also. It’s nothing worth losing sleep over though.

We had one instructor at our place who was not in the union and came in on strike days. He had trainees with him on strike days, but no idea if they were in the union or not at the time.

dk1 · 3 Feb 2024

Driver training is going ahead as normal at my TOC and most trainees join ASLEF whilst they are at the school or once they go with their driver instructor. My current trainee is on strike when I am.

skyhigh · 4 Feb 2024

FatContr0ller said:
Yep I've been told that - trouble is I'm loyal to my union, and RMT is my union. Will just have to reap the whirlwind. In my depot there are a few RMT drivers, so at least I'm not alone.

Not particularly sensible in my opinion.

At our TOC - ASLEF do the links, check the diagrams, negotiate the method of work for various things, arrange the initial annual leave allocation/swaps and the reps are drivers too and have a full understanding of the T&Cs that apply. If you have an incident you are supported by people who know local factors, know the job and know the rules inside out.

In my experience, drivers in RMT tend to be those who have fallen out with ASLEF for whatever reason but decided they don't want to go it alone. That's fair enough if you're an experienced driver and know how things work, but for a trainee/newly qualified it's a bit of a risk as the advice you can get from ASLEF can be pretty helpful (even with day to day stuff like rostering).

HamworthyGoods · 4 Feb 2024

FatContr0ller said:
Im RMT since came up from internal promotion and will stay in my union as a driver.
I will follow ASLEF strike days through solidarity (never cross a picket!) when I am fully qualified, until then me striking does nothing except delay my training. Makes zero difference to my TOC, the service or passengers if I strike or not.

Be careful. What you are proposing is technically classed as secondary action and can get you dismissed.

Yes you are protected if you decided to cross a picket line but you are not allowed to make that decision in advance, you have to actually turn up and encounter a picket line and choose not to cross it.

If your booking on depot doesn’t have a picket line then I’m afraid then you have no protection and will be taking part in secondary action.

Train_manager · 4 Feb 2024

T

HamworthyGoods said:
Be careful. What you are proposing is technically classed as secondary action and can get you dismissed.

Yes you are protected if you decided to cross a picket line but you are not allowed to make that decision in advance, you have to actually turn up and encounter a picket line and choose not to cross it.

If your booking on depot doesn’t have a picket line then I’m afraid then you have no protection and will be taking part in secondary action.

That's exactly what I thought.

But it's only non union and the balloted union members that have protection from dismissal for not crossing a picket line.

Say if the strike action is called by ASLEF members not RMT members Then the RMT members are not in dispute with there employer.

I believe it could be classed as secondary action.

HamworthyGoods · 4 Feb 2024

Train_manager said:
T

That's exactly what I thought.

But it's only non union and the balloted union members that have protection from dismissal for not crossing a picket line.

Say if the strike action is called by ASLEF members not RMT members Then the RMT members are not in dispute with there employer.

I believe it could be classed as secondary action.

Indeed and posting you are prepared to take part in secondary action on a public forum isn’t a great idea!

FatContr0ller · 5 Feb 2024

HamworthyGoods said:
Indeed and posting you are prepared to take part in secondary action on a public forum isn’t a great idea!

Who said im preparing to take part in secondary action? I said I wouldn't cross a picket line, so far as I know there's always a picket at my depot. Plus by the time I've passed out hopefully this will all be said and done.

Edit - reading back at my original post I can see why you may think I was just going to strike for the hell of it. Miswording on my part and changed accordingly, must be better in my communication.

Louby · 6 Feb 2024

If your grade or role is striking then you are entitled to strike also, regardless of which union you are in or not in,

scrapy · 7 Feb 2024

Louby said:
If your grade or role is striking then you are entitled to strike also, regardless of which union you are in or not in,

I believe Trainee Driver is technically a different grade to Driver at some TOCs. Therefore Trainee Drivers don't get a ballot paper and are not part of the action. If they are at a training school then there is probably no picket line to cross and they would be expected to go in unless told otherwise by their trainer. If at depot doing practical trainingthey are probably best asking their instructor. They will likely be told to stay at home, but I wouldn't advise crossing a picket line.

Efini92 · 8 Feb 2024

skyhigh said:
Not particularly sensible in my opinion.

At our TOC - ASLEF do the links, check the diagrams, negotiate the method of work for various things, arrange the initial annual leave allocation/swaps and the reps are drivers too and have a full understanding of the T&Cs that apply. If you have an incident you are supported by people who know local factors, know the job and know the rules inside out.

In my experience, drivers in RMT tend to be those who have fallen out with ASLEF for whatever reason but decided they don't want to go it alone. That's fair enough if you're an experienced driver and know how things work, but for a trainee/newly qualified it's a bit of a risk as the advice you can get from ASLEF can be pretty helpful (even with day to day stuff like rostering).

That’s sound advice and is what I say to anyone wanting to remain or join RMT instead of ASLEF.
RMT have some fantastic reps, but with the exception of the underground. You’d want an ASLEF rep to look after your interests in the driving grade.

PlexiDriver · 8 Feb 2024

Personal experience is that trainees don't strike, but they don't come in either. So it's put down as study from home day - unless it's classroom based, then you still have to come in.

dk1 · 8 Feb 2024

DriverPlex said:
Personal experience is that trainees don't strike, but they don't come in either. So it's put down as study from home day - unless it's classroom based, then you still have to come in.

Not sure what occurs in the school but all my trainees doing their hours strike.

Train strikes and trainee drivers.

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