Volvo B7TLs for Preservation

Recently two particular sets of Volvo B7TLs have been withdrawn; the final remaining FX06 Geminis at Stagecoach East Midlands, and the AU53/AU05 ALX400s at First Eastern Counties. Given the slightly unique aspects to both sets of vehicles I was expecting one might enter preservation, but that's looking increasingly unlikely. I know the reason is most likely that the saving random B7TLs in current financial difficulties is really not a priority for most people or groups.
The vehicles just happen to have been withdrawn at an unfortunate time

So I thought I might as well ask, before they're gone forever and everyone looks back in regret, what the best way to go about saving one (or the other) might be? And if any enthusiasts from Lincolnshire or East Anglia are genuinely interested in helping... by which I mean helping get in contact with Stagecoach/First to enquire, and any tips from existing preservationists and Volvo bus owners.

I'm well aware that down the line co-owned vehicles etc can cause problems, but that's far off and right now I mainly want to see if there's other people who can get behind the idea. This is something of a back-of-envelope plan I'd been thinking up for a little while, but didn't expect the B7s to be withdrawn at such a dramatic pace!

I know it's unlikely, especially as in my life position I probably shouldn't be trying to buy buses, but I thought I might as well ask because no-one else has stepped up
Also see https://www.flickr.com/photos/108834608@N06/53518795023/in/dateposted/



And why these vehicles in particular, you may ask:

Road Car FX06 Geminis - were the final buses bought by Road Car prior to being taken over by Stagecoach. Three of the original six remain; 16944 is the very last original Road Car but has been withdrawn with accident damage, 16943 is open top, 16939 should be most complete with an engine rebuild within the past couple of years. All of the B7RLE Eclipses new to Road Car have been sold for scrap by Stagecoach (afaik)

Eastern Counties AU53/AU05 ALX400s - were 26 built to a unique height only for First Eastern Counties to fit under the Ipswich garage door. The six AU05s in particular are the last ALX400s ever bought by First as well as some of the rarest of the bodywork ever built due to their special height and a few years newer than all other First ALXs. And they were new with fog lights, which surely means they're cool!


Of course if there are plans to save one of the above buses that I don't know about, do tell me! Or, if nothing else, say whether you'd prefer to see a Road Car or Eastern Counties example preserved - both would certainly be too far of a stretch

I've no real advice for you other than to say good luck in your quest to save one of them, I will say though given the age of the vehicles you would need to fill tachographs in whenever you drive them as they are under 25 years old. Also if you passed your car test after 1997 and dont already hold a PSV licence you would need to get one to drive them.

At this stage sounds like you are more interested in buying one. So you need to have somewhere to store it. If you don't have anywhere to keep it then your quest is in trouble from the start.

Everything else can happen later, once you have saved it from being stripped and scrapped

So am I reading this right, there are no more closed top B7 Geminis left at Stagecoach east mids in service?

Think long and hard about buying for preservation. The cost of replacement parts are eye watering at the moment. Some of the sensors alone for B7s are £274 ex VAT and they have a lot of them. Its also worth looking into Class 5 insurance quotes at this stage. I've not insured anything on a preserved policy for about 15 years, and back then you get cover for around £115 a year compared to Hire and Reward at around £2000 a year. Hire and Reward can now be up to £7k a year per vehicle, so definitely get quoted before committing to buying.

Preservation is an expensive hobby.

First thing is to ensure you can afford it out of your own pocket. If you keep it as an ornament there are ongoing storage costs. If you want it on the road, there will be ongoing maintenance costs on top plus tax and insurance. Defects develop even when a bus is parked up inactive for a while. You need a fair amount of disposable income to keep on top of this.

Second, don’t get attached to any specific vehicle that you don’t yet own. The owner might not sell it to you and if they do, you don’t want to pay more than the market rate that the dealers and dismantlers would pay.

Third, if the owner does sell to you, make sure you’re serious. That means having the money, plus VAT, ready along with the means to collect, insure and store it at the point the sale is confirmed. Your chances of getting the vehicle increase if you’re prepared to take it as seen. And that means dealing with any defects that they come with. You might want to take a trusted engineer to check you’re not buying something that’s a few miles off needing repairs that will cost £15k to put right. A lot of buyers present as not serious because they don’t have the money, or they want the bus repaired and refurbished for them, or they want the seller to store it for them or pay for delivery etc. Make sure the terms of the sale are agreed and understood on both sides.

All that said, it’s an enjoyable hobby. I have a preserved collection which includes an ALX400 B7TL, but the costs are such that I ended up buying buses I’m not particularly interested in and running them for money to pay for that collection. The two B7TLs cost around £10k each to get running reliably and a third I bought off a bus dealer did a grand total of 100 miles before a serious failure within the engine.

Others have different ways of financing their collections but it’s definitely not cheap!

Russel said:

So am I reading this right, there are no more closed top B7 Geminis left at Stagecoach east mids in service?

Click to expand...

Yes, that's right. The only Geminis left are the ex-First ones for the open top services.

Snow1964 said:

Everything else can happen later, once you have saved it from being stripped and scrapped

Click to expand...

That's the plan, really! "Not in scrapyard" would be the first step. Figuring out what to do with 12 tonnes of potential mistake would be the second step.

Eyersey468 said:

Also if you passed your car test after 1997 and dont already hold a PSV licence you would need to get one to drive them.

Click to expand...

I was born after 1997! I think it'd take at least a couple of years for me to get a category B and then D licence. I know the more sensible option is to wait, but that's no good if the B7TLs have been turned into razor blades by then!


I'll enquire about storage, and think about it.

Sorry @TR673 I didn’t know how old you are. You could maybe speak to some local farmers, a friend of mine has a few preserved buses as part of a consortium, I'm sure they rent some space in a barn.

National Express West Midlands (NXWM) is still operating Geminis in the West Midlands but there have been a number of disposals and sales, I understand. A number of ex NXWM Geminis were stored at the Chaserider, nee Arriva, depot at Delta Way in Cannock, but had not been around there for a couple of months.

Last week there seemed to be at least one NXWM West Bromwich based Gemini on the 74 route when I walked past the stand in Priory Queensway at night and I very regularly see them around Queslett on my way to and from work.

I am guessing the OP is seeking a Gemini with their local history though.

We (EYMS) are still running a couple of closed top B7 Geminis but probably not for much longer given the age of them

Eyersey468 said:

We (EYMS) are still running a couple of closed top B7 Geminis but probably not for much longer given the age of them

Click to expand...

Sad to see them go considering I remember them new!

Russel said:

Sad to see them go considering I remember them new!

Click to expand...

They weren't that old when I started at EY, shows how long I've been there

I have seen B7TLs in Newcastle and Dundee recently. First Glasgow has retired them a while back now.

Wyrleybart said:

National Express West Midlands (NXWM) is still operating Geminis in the West Midlands but there have been a number of disposals and sales, I understand. A number of ex NXWM Geminis were stored at the Chaserider, nee Arriva, depot at Delta Way in Cannock, but had not been around there for a couple of months.

Last week there seemed to be at least one NXWM West Bromwich based Gemini on the 74 route when I walked past the stand in Priory Queensway at night and I very regularly see them around Queslett on my way to and from work.

I am guessing the OP is seeking a Gemini with their local history though.

Click to expand...

Quite surprising how many B7 Geminis are hanging on at NXWM, given the ALX400 B7's and Tridents started to be withdrawn en-mass a few years ago... There must be something about them NX like.

IIRC The earliest are 03 plates, I have fond memories of using them on the Sutton lines to college and back just as they were replacing Metrobuses, I'll be sad to see them go, I might have to nip into Sutton to catch one on the 5 to West Brom for old times sake before it's too late.

route101 said:

I have seen B7TLs in Newcastle and Dundee recently. First Glasgow has retired them a while back now.

Click to expand...

A number of the Xplore Dundee B7TLs were upgraded to Euro6, so I expect they’ll be around for a while, even if they tend to work schools and the off-peak services rather than the mainstream routes.

Wyrleybart said:

I am guessing the OP is seeking a Gemini with their local history though.

Click to expand...

That is kind of true for the Lincolnshire ones, though mainly I was looking at vehicles I just found particularly interesting and are currently at greater threat of scrapping. It's nice to know other B7TLs are still in service around the country, but I've never taken any specific interest in those ones.

Russel said:

Quite surprising how many B7 Geminis are hanging on at NXWM, given the ALX400 B7's and Tridents started to be withdrawn en-mass a few years ago... There must be something about them NX like.

Click to expand...

Stan Drews said:

A number of the Xplore Dundee B7TLs were upgraded to Euro6, so I expect they’ll be around for a while, even if they tend to work schools and the off-peak services rather than the mainstream routes.

Click to expand...

I know NX West Midlands upgraded some Tridents to Euro 6, so maybe they did had some Geminis similarly treated? I'm not sure.

Eyersey468 said:

Sorry @TR673 I didn’t know how old you are. You could maybe speak to some local farmers, a friend of mine has a few preserved buses as part of a consortium, I'm sure they rent some space in a barn.

Click to expand...

You don't need to apologise it's no problem. I've exchanged emails with an operator that also offers storage at their site so now I've got an idea of the storage cost.


Sooo... does anyone know the best way to approach operators about buying a vehicle off them?
Again, I don't want to be rushing into buying something I can't actually move or store, but just to let either First or Stagecoach know I'm interested in one of their buses before they get the scrap dealers on the phone. Perhaps get some information or even arrange to visit the depot and take a look? Or do they not do that sort of thing and only interested in someone who can low-loader it out of their yard that day?
It would be useful if I already knew a depot manager or engineer or something from either company, but alas I don't!

TR673 said:

I know NX West Midlands upgraded some Tridents to Euro 6, so maybe they did had some Geminis similarly treated? I'm not sure.

Click to expand...

If I remember correctly, you're right, NX did upgrade some of the Geminis to Euro 6, still surprising they are still in service given the fleet renewals that have happened over the last few years and resulting cascades.

TR673 said:

That is kind of true for the Lincolnshire ones, though mainly I was looking at vehicles I just found particularly interesting and are currently at greater threat of scrapping. It's nice to know other B7TLs are still in service around the country, but I've never taken any specific interest in those ones.



I know NX West Midlands upgraded some Tridents to Euro 6, so maybe they did had some Geminis similarly treated? I'm not sure.


You don't need to apologise it's no problem. I've exchanged emails with an operator that also offers storage at their site so now I've got an idea of the storage cost.


Sooo... does anyone know the best way to approach operators about buying a vehicle off them?
Again, I don't want to be rushing into buying something I can't actually move or store, but just to let either First or Stagecoach know I'm interested in one of their buses before they get the scrap dealers on the phone. Perhaps get some information or even arrange to visit the depot and take a look? Or do they not do that sort of thing and only interested in someone who can low-loader it out of their yard that day?
It would be useful if I already knew a depot manager or engineer or something from either company, but alas I don't!

Click to expand...

I would sort your storage solution on principle first before you approach an operator; it will be easier to buy a bus as loads to choose from than find storage for it.

Russel said:

If I remember correctly, you're right, NX did upgrade some of the Geminis to Euro 6, still surprising they are still in service given the fleet renewals that have happened over the last few years and resulting cascades.

Click to expand...

4476 - 4496, 4687 - 4696, 4667, 4672, 4675, 4523 are euro 6.
The non euro 6 ones tend to be confined to routes that don't run into the City Centre. The 11A/11C Outer Circle still sees B7TL Gemini and they have done since 2004.

I think its been said the new electrics for Perry Barr/Yardley Wood can't be used until charging points are installed. And the 20 hydrogen streetdecks have also been off the road for several weeks.

And its also been said some of the new vehicles will replace some of the scania omnilink single decks as well.

WM Bus said:

4476 - 4496, 4687 - 4696, 4667, 4672, 4675, 4523 are euro 6.
The non euro 6 ones tend to be confined to routes that don't run into the City Centre. The 11A/11C Outer Circle still sees B7TL Gemini and they have done since 2004.

I think its been said the new electrics for Perry Barr/Yardley Wood can't be used until charging points are installed. And the 20 hydrogen streetdecks have also been off the road for several weeks.

And its also been said some of the new vehicles will replace some of the scania omnilink single decks as well.

My love/hate relationship with the Scania OmniLink

When I heard that the Scania OmniLinks were set to be withdrawn from service next year, as well as feeling a sense of relief, I was also a little saddened. In all the time I have taken a more serio…

wmbu.org.uk

Click to expand...

The hydrogen deckers seem to have spent more time off the road than in service!

TR673 said:

Sooo... does anyone know the best way to approach operators about buying a vehicle off them?
Again, I don't want to be rushing into buying something I can't actually move or store, but just to let either First or Stagecoach know I'm interested in one of their buses before they get the scrap dealers on the phone. Perhaps get some information or even arrange to visit the depot and take a look? Or do they not do that sort of thing and only interested in someone who can low-loader it out of their yard that day?
It would be useful if I already knew a depot manager or engineer or something from either company, but alas I don't!

Click to expand...

In terms of National Express West Midlands, provided you are serious and not a timewaster, you could do much worse than contact Tony Hunter who is the font of all knowledge concerning fleet, withdrawals, sales etc.

Not sure whether you could find such a knowledgeable gent in your locality.

Well just as a brief update I guess, all the vehicles I mentioned at the top of this thread are now withdrawn/scrapped. The only RoadCar Wright B7 (including both single and double deck) still extant is open top FX06 AOE, which will see its (final?) summer on the Peak Sightseer.

Both FX06 AOA/F have gone for scrap (illustrated in pictures linked below)
It's fairly disappointing since they were given light refurbs in the past couple of years, and one had its engine reconditioned which wouldn't have been cheap. Easier and quicker to scrap than sell second hand?


Meanwhile the Eastern Counties ALX400s have, seemingly, all been disposed of straight to the scrap man. Again, easier to just bin the lot than sell as used?

After Jon's report on activity in Lowestoft on 29th March (see Lowestoft Visit) and the use of First Lowestoft's Volvo B7TL Alexander ALX400 32651 AU05 MUO in service, he thought he would follow up with a photo of it awaiting what will be its final journey.

Click to expand...

And even the heritage liveried one isn't considered worthy of saving, if this is accurate

Sadly looks like the last Volvo B7TL has been withdrawn for disposal in 32479 sadly I believe ITM turned it down though I stand to be corrected.

Click to expand...

No doubt there will be legitimate reasons for them to decline, but I do wonder if they'd have been more accepting if it was, say, a VRT or something instead of a B7TL? Plus how many enthusiasts actually knew the 'AU' registered ALX400s were different to the standard First spec ones anyway? Not enough to make a case for them, it seems.

Having said that, one of the AU53s did escape to A2B Travel a year or-so back. What became of that?

Apologies if I posted the links/quotes in the wrong manner.