Sail Rail and Delays

PyrahnaRanger · 17 Jan 2024

I’m heading off to Ireland in February.

Last time I did this, I flew from Manchester, and had a series of unfortunate incidents getting to the airport on the train, and caught my flight by the skin of my teeth, despite allowing 10 hours to do a 4 hour journey.

I’m not a huge fan of flying, so I’m wondering about doing SailRail next time, but as there’s strikes and overtime bans at the start of February, what obligations does the railway have if I’m delayed and miss the ferry?

RailUK Forums

poffle · 17 Jan 2024

I've been out on a later ferry when Virgin trains voyager broke down a few years ago.

Doubt there's much compensation.

At this time of year Stena have a ferry about every six hours. Irish Ferries only have one ferry which carries passengers from Holyhead so they only have a couple of ferries a day at similar times to Stena.

Holyhead is a pretty dire place to wait as although the ferry companies have heated check-in areas those only open an hour or so before ferry departure. You're left waiting in a semi covered area that has a gale howling through it and some plastic seats to sit on.

Porty · 17 Jan 2024

poffle said:
I've been out on a later ferry when Virgin trains voyager broke down a few years ago.

Doubt there's much compensation.

At this time of year Stena have a ferry about every six hours. Irish Ferries only have one ferry which carries passengers from Holyhead so they only have a couple of ferries a day at similar times to Stena.

Holyhead is a pretty dire place to wait as although the ferry companies have heated check-in areas those only open an hour or so before ferry departure. You're left waiting in a semi covered area that has a gale howling through it and some plastic seats to sit on.

In contrast Stena terminal at Cairnryan is modern and reasonably comfortable. Depending where you're travelling from it may be a option. The railsail fares to Belfast via Cairnryan seem to be good value.

MrJeeves · 17 Jan 2024

Porty said:
In contrast Stena terminal at Cairnryan is modern and reasonably comfortable. Depending where you're travelling from it may be a option. The railsail fares to Belfast via Cairnryan seem to be good value.

However you're buggered if you miss your complimentary coach (and hence your sailing)...

I was worried the coach wasn't turning up the time I did it because the departure time had been and gone... but it did turn up eventually, fully Stena Line branded!

They are extremely good value for money.

Porty · 18 Jan 2024

MrJeeves said:
However you're buggered if you miss your complimentary coach (and hence your sailing)...

I was worried the coach wasn't turning up the time I did it because the departure time had been and gone... but it did turn up eventually, fully Stena Line branded!

They are extremely good value for money.

There's also the option of the Citylink coach from Glasgow Buchanan (with a stop in Ayr) direct to the ferry. And for Scottish residents over 60 or under 23 it's free (with a £1 reservation fee). Last time I did this routing I had a railsail ticket to Belfast, went by rail to Glasgow, but actually used the Citylink coach for the journey onwards to avoid messing about with replacement buses due to the Ayr station closure.

AlastairFraser · 18 Jan 2024

PyrahnaRanger said:
I’m heading off to Ireland in February.

Last time I did this, I flew from Manchester, and had a series of unfortunate incidents getting to the airport on the train, and caught my flight by the skin of my teeth, despite allowing 10 hours to do a 4 hour journey.

I’m not a huge fan of flying, so I’m wondering about doing SailRail next time, but as there’s strikes and overtime bans at the start of February, what obligations does the railway have if I’m delayed and miss the ferry?

I live in Central Lancs currently, me and a friend did a Belfast trip a couple of years ago.
I ended up flying and he took my RailSail tickets (long story involving his employer).

He encountered a few delays at Glasgow Central, due to the Avanti service arriving with a significant delay, and missed the train to Ayr for the RailSail coach.
Due to the delays, he was allowed on to the next eligible coach and ship from Cairnryan, no problems.
So if you book the earlier of 2 services available on RailSail tickets, you do have the backup of the 2nd one AFAIK.

The other thing I would suggest is flying from Liverpool, because it's been significantly smoother in my experience than Manchester and you also have the option of the X2 bus from Preston to Liverpool and then short hops on the train and bus if your flight is earlyish, and Merseyrail tend to be much more reliable in my experience.
Not to mention Liverpool Airport itself is probably one of the best I've been through.

MrJeeves · 18 Jan 2024

AlastairFraser said:
Due to the delays, he was allowed on to the next eligible coach and ship from Cairnryan, no problems.
So if you book the earlier of 2 services available on RailSail tickets, you do have the backup of the 2nd one AFAIK.

The issue is that there is only one Rail & Sail service most of the year, with the extra only operating between 1 July and 30 September

paul1609 · 18 Jan 2024

Porty said:
In contrast Stena terminal at Cairnryan is modern and reasonably comfortable. Depending where you're travelling from it may be a option. The railsail fares to Belfast via Cairnryan seem to be good value.

The Stena terminal at Cairnryan didnt used to open until about an hour before the ferry either. Ive had random people that I rescued from the car park in a blizzard waiting in my minibus before.

AlastairFraser · 18 Jan 2024

MrJeeves said:
The issue is that there is only one Rail & Sail service most of the year, with the extra only operating between 1 July and 30 September

Ah, that changes things, but Stena Line were pretty willing to accomodate regardless (in the case of unavoidable delays).

PyrahnaRanger · 19 Jan 2024

Thanks all for the advice - I’m going to give it a go and see what happens. I’ve managed to get return tickets from Workington to Dublin for just over £100, flying was going to be around £480*, so the way I see it, I’m trying to save the company money…

I didn’t know about the Cairnryan option, I might try that next time I’m in Northern Ireland, but on this occasion all my visits are in or around Dublin, so it works out quicker via Holyhead provided things run to time!

*You can get cheaper flights, but not via our travel agent that we have to use at work. Yes, I’m aware this is stupid, my boss is aware it’s stupid, but finance insists it’s “better value” if all travel is booked via one company, even if it ends up costing more than booking it somewhere else.

johnnydoe · 28 Feb 2024

How did you get on? Did you go with Stena Line or with Irish Ferries?

PyrahnaRanger · 29 Feb 2024

johnnydoe said:
How did you get on? Did you go with Stena Line or with Irish Ferries?

I did the Irish Ferries crossing from Holyhead to Dublin, and it all worked reasonably well going out - the only worry was a late running Northern service between Warrington BQ and Chester, but a very easy transfer at Holyhead.

It was really rough weather the week I went, so the ferry was delayed getting into Dublin for my return journey, but Irish Ferries told us as we arrived, and gave out tea and cake vouchers to everyone for the inconvenience. I ended up getting home much later than planned no thanks to TfW though:

On arrival into Holyhead, there were 2 x 158s in the platform and the platform display said it was for Cardiff, leaving in around 20 minutes. While I was checking if it would get me anywhere near where I needed to go, it left. When I eventually got enough mobile signal to get on RTT, it turned out to be a Birmingham service that would have done nicely… and at that point I waited an hour or so for a train, but then had the choice of a 158 or a voyager, so I went with the latter.

As an aside, it would have been very nice to be able to change my seat reservations, but as we’re restricted to booking via Evolvi, I couldn’t get them moved.

paul1609 · 29 Feb 2024

Personally I'd get on anything that got me out of Holyhead. The last time I did the overnight Stena Line service the connecting voyager to Euston only had 4 passengers and a Cello so reservations weren't really an issue.

johnnydoe · 1 Mar 2024

PyrahnaRanger said:
I did the Irish Ferries crossing from Holyhead to Dublin, and it all worked reasonably well going out - the only worry was a late running Northern service between Warrington BQ and Chester, but a very easy transfer at Holyhead.

It was really rough weather the week I went, so the ferry was delayed getting into Dublin for my return journey, but Irish Ferries told us as we arrived, and gave out tea and cake vouchers to everyone for the inconvenience. I ended up getting home much later than planned no thanks to TfW though:

On arrival into Holyhead, there were 2 x 158s in the platform and the platform display said it was for Cardiff, leaving in around 20 minutes. While I was checking if it would get me anywhere near where I needed to go, it left. When I eventually got enough mobile signal to get on RTT, it turned out to be a Birmingham service that would have done nicely… and at that point I waited an hour or so for a train, but then had the choice of a 158 or a voyager, so I went with the latter.

As an aside, it would have been very nice to be able to change my seat reservations, but as we’re restricted to booking via Evolvi, I couldn’t get them moved.

I think Irish Ferries would always be the correct choice for rough weather. The Ulysses has a notable size advantage over both of Stena Line's two ships. In rough seas, bigger is always better, even at the expense of only just one practical ship sailing for sail and rail compared to Stena Line's morning and afternoon crossings (three if you take the early morning night sailing).

Anti-seasickness tablets do make a huge difference in my experience, even on rough fast craft.

Almost got caught out with a TfW train advertising the wrong destination in Holyhead, but asked and it was the right one. I'd say it's not unusual if it happened to both of us.

You seemed to have a paid little bit extra for sail and rail , but the normal booking routes when I'm booking from Ireland don't offer seat reservations. Though there are differences between the UK collected versus Irish collected tickets, I'm lead to believe.

Flying Snail · 1 Mar 2024

Railsail tickets sold in Ireland never have train or seat reservations as Irish Rail and the ferry operators have no access to the GB rail booking system.

Anyone can get free reservations by making an account on the GWR website, but note it will happily issue counted place reservations on reservation free trains, these are useless and contain no actual seat numbers.

In Holyhead the best option is if in doubt to take the first departure, nothing gets overtaken between Holyhead and Chester so you can always sort out your connections on the move.

Porty · 1 Mar 2024

PyrahnaRanger said:
Thanks all for the advice - I’m going to give it a go and see what happens. I’ve managed to get return tickets from Workington to Dublin for just over £100, flying was going to be around £480*, so the way I see it, I’m trying to save the company money…

I didn’t know about the Cairnryan option, I might try that next time I’m in Northern Ireland, but on this occasion all my visits are in or around Dublin, so it works out quicker via Holyhead provided things run to time!

*You can get cheaper flights, but not via our travel agent that we have to use at work. Yes, I’m aware this is stupid, my boss is aware it’s stupid, but finance insists it’s “better value” if all travel is booked via one company, even if it ends up costing more than booking it somewhere else.

I travelled to Dublin via Cairnryan and Belfast last October. Not only cheap ferry fares (Railsail) but depending on your timings, hotels in Belfast are way cheaper than Dublin and the Translink train to Dublin the next day was about £12, from memory, booked a week or so in advance - with a walkup fare of £33. Coaches are even cheaper.

Just had a look at availability on Translink and £11.99 fares are easily available with a few days notice, and £17.49 tickets are available for most trains tomorrow.

paul1609 · 1 Mar 2024

I think the weak link in the Belfast routes is the lack of a proper bus link between Belfast port and the city centre. Id always go on one of the bus links instead of sailrail. I think Dublins overated tbh and I wouldnt stay there overnight. My favourite irish Cities would be: ROI Cork, Galway, NI Belfast Londonderry. Coming from the Kent Coast I find the ROI generally too expensive especially hotel accomodation I'd rather spend my time in Scotland.

MrJeeves · 1 Mar 2024

paul1609 said:
I think the weak link in the Belfast routes is the lack of a proper bus link between Belfast port and the city centre.

There is quite literally a bus service to/from the port to coincide with sailings, but the timetable is rather tight and doesn't account well for delays annoyingly.

paul1609 · 1 Mar 2024

MrJeeves said:
There is quite literally a bus service to/from the port to coincide with sailings, but the timetable is rather tight and doesn't account well for delays annoyingly.

Indeed and if you miss it its only a 4 hour wait for the next one or a 5 mile walk with luggage to the city centre.
At some times during the day Ive even heard that you can manage to get a taxi to come from the city centre to pick you up for £25 but not school times or at all if theres a cruise ship in.

MrJeeves · 1 Mar 2024

I was quite lucky with my friend...

Taxis waiting outside, took us to where we were staying about a 5-10 min walk from the centre for about £15!

Porty · 1 Mar 2024

paul1609 said:
Indeed and if you miss it its only a 4 hour wait for the next one or a 5 mile walk with luggage to the city centre.
At some times during the day Ive even heard that you can manage to get a taxi to come from the city centre to pick you up for £25 but not school times or at all if theres a cruise ship in.

Don't know the details but when I arrived in the late afternoon/ early evening there was the "fast bus" standing in, but a local service bus turned up and I paid the couple of quid and used that. Left before the "fast bus".

AlastairFraser · 1 Mar 2024

Porty said:
Don't know the details but when I arrived in the late afternoon/ early evening there was the "fast bus" standing in, but a local service bus turned up and I paid the couple of quid and used that. Left before the "fast bus".

Indeed, and I think there was some sort of transfer system that allowed you to take another bus or Glider within a certain amount of time. I may be remembering it wrong because I mostly used my Belfast Visitor Pass.

PyrahnaRanger · 1 Mar 2024

Porty said:
I travelled to Dublin via Cairnryan and Belfast last October. Not only cheap ferry fares (Railsail) but depending on your timings, hotels in Belfast are way cheaper than Dublin and the Translink train to Dublin the next day was about £12, from memory, booked a week or so in advance - with a walkup fare of £33. Coaches are even cheaper.

Just had a look at availability on Translink and £11.99 fares are easily available with a few days notice, and £17.49 tickets are available for most trains tomorrow.

Ah - I needed to be in Dublin for four days, I was supporting a colleague in a set of customer site visits, so with work paying I wasn’t that bothered about the cost of the hotel, and the time saved by me being in Dublin was probably more than the difference work paid for the hotel.

That said, Dublin wasn’t much better for getting from the port to the city centre. I ended up getting a FreeNow taxi to my hotel, which ended up costing nearly as much as the trip from Workington to Dublin!

Sail Rail and Delays

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