Zontar
Member
Try telling that the people who rely on the line. Literally daily cancellations and significant delays whilst TFW try and tame the white elephant
-
Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
Transport for Wales Class 230
- Thread starter CaergwrleKen
- Start date
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
A 30 min service would be even better! Getting home from Liverpool with the current timetable can take some timeSounds like the new timetable was a stroke of genius
That's not the fault of the train though
Better than the 4 months of rail replacement buses that didn't show up still! I'd rather wait around for 45 more mins and get the next train then none show up at all, still a major improvement from this time last year.
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
You must have "the patience of Job" if a 45 minute wait at either end of the working day bothers you so little.
It does bother me greatly but as the station is usually empty I’m alright with just winding down while waiting for the train if it does get cancelled (or reinstated as it’s happened a few times)
317 forever
Established Member
If LNWR is anything to go by, the £1 promo will occur once we have a full service with successors to the 230s.
Hello, I pitched a question to TFW about their plans for the 230’s. This is the response I have had:
“These trains will eventually resource the whole Wrexham-Bidston line. We are investing in and delivering a reliability improvement programme which will improve both their availability for service and their reliability in service.”
I wonder how long the improvements will take !
“These trains will eventually resource the whole Wrexham-Bidston line. We are investing in and delivering a reliability improvement programme which will improve both their availability for service and their reliability in service.”
I wonder how long the improvements will take !
Bertie the bus
Established Member
- Joined
- 15 Aug 2014
- Messages
- 2,791
I wonder exactly how much good money they are going to throw after bad to try and save face. They allegedly spent a significant sum on a specialist contractor sorting them out before they were introduced, and less than 1 year later are throwing more money at them in a vain attempt to make them fit for purpose.
Yes, a few people keep saying about 'good money' or 'wasting more money on the 230s' but I suppose it really comes down to how much it would cost to sort them vs the cost of any other options available. It certainly would be much cheaper than acquiring more new units. Keeping 150's long term would be a bit of a headache due to maintenance and crew competencies. Pretty much anything else would require crew training. The only other thing I could see would be for TFW to acquire more MK4's from LNER when they become available to run all of the Manchester-S.Wales as MK4's freeing up 197's for the Bidstons.
No matter what, 'good money' has to be spent to get the line a service it deserves, perhaps this is the most cost effective option.
Bertie the bus
Established Member
- Joined
- 15 Aug 2014
- Messages
- 2,791
Up to this point there is no evidence they can be sorted out. They have tried before and failed so how and why is this attempt going to succeed? The last lot they got tinkering with them were reportedly a very expensive specialist contractor, so if they couldn't knock them into shape what evidence is there someone else will be able to?
They were scrap when TfL got rid of them and they are still scrap now. Just scrap them.
They were scrap when TfL got rid of them and they are still scrap now. Just scrap them.
D365
Veteran Member
- Joined
- 29 Jun 2012
- Messages
- 11,490
You talk about ”a very expensive specialist contractor”. All railway contractors are expensive, especially when it comes to a minuscule number of vehicles within a project scope…
Ultimately it’s a case of replacing the 150s on an interim basis until the route can be ’electrified’ in one way or another.
Ultimately it’s a case of replacing the 150s on an interim basis until the route can be ’electrified’ in one way or another.
Wyrleybart
Established Member
I think "scrap" is a very suggestive or devisive word depending on what you personally think.
On the one hand you could believe that, just like the class 379s, the D78s were withdrawn only part way through their life cycle. Lorol chose to bin their D78 stock despite fairly new bogies, wheelsets and traction gear, so Adrian Shooter spotted an opportunity and bought them.
Another view would be that the TfW 230s are just not fit for purpose and will never have the robustness of more traditional heavy rail multiple units.
The question I have is - what is the intended life of the 230s ? I presume TfW have a projected life for these units
Bertie the bus
Established Member
- Joined
- 15 Aug 2014
- Messages
- 2,791
They’re lumps of metal with some glass, plastic and upholstery so if you want to be taken seriously cut out the absurd use of words like divisive as though I’ve said something racist or homophobic.
They didn’t work when Vivarail converted them. They don’t work after some other company has tried to fix them and there are no guarantees they will work after this next attempt. That is pretty much the definition of scrap.
They didn’t work when Vivarail converted them. They don’t work after some other company has tried to fix them and there are no guarantees they will work after this next attempt. That is pretty much the definition of scrap.
Brissle Girl
Established Member
- Joined
- 17 Jul 2018
- Messages
- 2,679
I guess if the GWR one proves to be equally difficult to run reliably then there would be a good argument that several companies have tried and failed. Until that time, I’ll reserve judgement.
No evidence they can be "sorted out" beyond their continually improving reliability and availability.
CaergwrleKen
Member
It may seem like they are ‘improving’ but they aren’t. There are still faults and failures with them and don’t forget they are STILL only capable of doing half a day diagram even though there are now 4 available apparently. I have noticed recently that new hopper windows have been fitted and also the heating hasn’t been working on at least one of them i think it was 230008. Still relying on the 197 despite them being needed for more and more mainline routes now including to Cheltenham and West Wales. There appears to be no end to the 230 part time diagrams, TFW need to stop wasting money on them.
@Bertie the bus
@CaergwrleKen
I appreciate neither of you like the 230’s but they’re here to stay a while longer yet. What I said in post #487 came direct from James Price, so should be pretty darn accurate.
I genuinely hope that whatever TFW have planned, that it works out and that they can run a 30 minutes service using 4 diagrams and 4 units a day.
Nothing else will be more cost effective.
None of us here are rolling stock engineers, but I did study and work in electrical engineering before joining the railway, one thing I learnt is that almost anything can be solved.
And if they have to resort to different units, it will almost certainly be back to much worse rolling stock with a less than 30 minute service (maybe even back to hourly?).
@CaergwrleKen
I appreciate neither of you like the 230’s but they’re here to stay a while longer yet. What I said in post #487 came direct from James Price, so should be pretty darn accurate.
I genuinely hope that whatever TFW have planned, that it works out and that they can run a 30 minutes service using 4 diagrams and 4 units a day.
Nothing else will be more cost effective.
None of us here are rolling stock engineers, but I did study and work in electrical engineering before joining the railway, one thing I learnt is that almost anything can be solved.
And if they have to resort to different units, it will almost certainly be back to much worse rolling stock with a less than 30 minute service (maybe even back to hourly?).
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
What is your view on the current situation of "needing to have two 230s" to perform what would normally be accepted as the work of one unit each day as being "cost-effective"?.
Do you also envisage that there will not be the same "assorted summer problems" experienced on the Marston Vale line, on the Borderlands line?
Obviously unacceptable, I’m not trying to say that it is either. I can’t imagine TFW are very impressed about it by any means either.
Short term it would be nice to see 4 units a day covering 2 of the 3 diagrams.
Then with their plan enacted, 4
Diagrams a day covered by 4 units.
I’m not sure to be honest, other units like 158’s and 153’s struggle in the warmer weather too so I’m not sure exactly how the 230’s summer issues differ.
The biggest issue with the 230s is that the batteries are in a stupid aluminium case that will easily overheat when the weather is above 15 degrees. I do believe that the 230s will be reliable at some point just the 175s and TfW will hold out and run a full service with them but summer is definitely not the time for it. Maybe after summer we will see some proper works done? Or maybe when GWR finish their battery trials and TfW install the fast charging to resolve this main problem but who knows. I have hope in them but this summer will not be it.
Northerngirl
Member
Does anyone know why they are still swapping at midday, is it just thermal management
Zontar
Member
At the wbrua meeting the md said they are getting upgrades to the batteries. I would assume this is better cooling/insulation. Last throw of the dice until the fast charge is reliable I'd say.
Any ideas to when this is happening? Before summer ideally?
Wyrleybart
Established Member
By "fast charge" do you mean the TfW 230s are losing their diesel engines and becoming BEMUs with shore based fast charging ? In other words modified like 230001 ?
Does that mean charging infrastructure at Wrexham and Bidston ?
Who pays ?
Zontar
Member
It was said spring 2024
Yea the gwr system, if it can be fitted in to the existing infrastructure.
Welsh government cash machine will pay, they've paid millions so far!
So no confirmation on fast charge being a TFW plan then ?
anthony263
Established Member
Not yet but if it works on 230001 I wouldn't be surprised to see 230006 equipped 1st to test it out on the Bidston line.
Zontar
Member
No, it's barely had the ink dry at gwrs report!
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
Has 230006 now had all its missing parts replaced that were reported to have been used on other units?
D365
Veteran Member
- Joined
- 29 Jun 2012
- Messages
- 11,490
It's very much a 'live' project.