midlandred
Member
I understand the road is closed for 18 days at the crossing due to track problems. Can anyone confirm as details locally are sketchy? The road is closed, the track is open.
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London Road crossing, Bicester
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Oxfordblues
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Nothing in my Oxford Mail about it. But it would be good practice for when an additional four trains per hour start running to/from MKC.
I agree that this may be 'good practice'- reminding that East west rail published studies of a range of ways of dispensing with the London Road level crossing at Bicester Village station. Perhaps someone my track down the document and link to it?
https://eastwestrail.co.uk/proposed-route/consultation/maps has the 6 concepts, although they're very much not drawn out in detail. I couldn't find anything anywhere that said if they'd selected an option or not - the existing Level Crossing was upgraded in 2021 according to an ORR document google threw up so that might be thought enough for the initial service until the Marston Vale is upgraded.
swt_passenger
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By the time of a BBC article in 2023, they’d apparently ruled out 5 of 6 previously published solutions. Recent reports in local media read as if they’re still undecided, with a decision only by 2025:
EWR said it discounted five of the options it was previously looking at after deciding they would not work. These included plans for an accessible bridge for non-motorised users and proposals for either a road underpass or a road bridge alongside London Road.
East-West Rail looks at new plans for Bicester crossing
East-West Rail Company (EWR) says a lot of options are still on the table for a crossing in Bicester.www.bbc.co.uk
midlandred
Member
Do you know what the reason was, please?
12LDA28C
Established Member
Trains to Oxford generally have a couple of minutes dwell time at Bicester Village so that shouldn't have caused any delays
The London Road level crossing could be closed to vehicles permanently without much detriment. For vehicles the A41 provides a fine alternative route, and for pedestrians not wishing to wait, the footbridge at the adjacent Bicester Village station has lifts at both ends. Not worth investing millions of pounds to 'solve'.
Andyjs247
Member
No it could not! The A41 is not a suitable alternative route; if it was that easy to close London Road crossing it would have been done already. A sensible alternative which would allow the level crossing to close could be a bridge for light vehicles on a curved alignment between the junction with Station Approach and the roundabout to the south where Mallards Way and Talisman Road join. Possibly a separate footbridge/cycleway/underpass. Unfortunately the failure of both the Highways Authority and Planning Authority to appreciate the problem has left us where we are.
67018
Member
Try telling that to the many residents of the Langford estates who would have their journey into town more than doubled in length, not to mention routing them through the congested set of junctions by Bicester Village. Thwy are the main source of traffic across the crossing - through traffic already uses the A41 or ring road.
The challenge is that replacing the crossing with a bridge is easier said than done as it would require extensive demolition, be highly intrusive and it's not entirely clear where an elevated road with an acceptable gradient would land on the north side while maintaining access to Station Approach and various side roads. Probably only with even more demolition, which further escalates the cost. I don't believe it's anything to do with a failure to appreciate the problem - the authorities are regularly reminded by frequent complaints as it is - but more the fact that there's no satisfactory solution that won't cost a fortune.
no, just that there was an emergency speed restriction. looks like it was lifted by about 9.00 though. The road crossing looked open this morning when I went through, there were cars queuing in both directions
Dear 67018 and Andyjs247 (posts #10 and 11), I'm not meaning to be horrid or personal but do you and residents of Langford estates, Mallard Way etc want trains from Bicester Village to Bletchley for MK and Bedford (maybe Cambridge) in addition to Marylebone and Oxford or not? Do local people want a few houses and local businesses demolished/ relocated in the name of 'progress'? According to post #6 above, EWR published 6 possible solutions- is not one acceptable, however grudgingly? Are local people to deny the work and life opportunities that EWR offers to all in the Oxford-Bicester- MK- Cambrige area? How 'local' are locals or are they 'incomers' for whom, to mix metaphors, 'the arc is their oyster'? Is Bicester town bikeable/ walkable from 'south-west of the tracks'- I think it is.
The Planner
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The trains will happen, but the issue will rumble on over barriers down time. It won't get closed.
12LDA28C
Established Member
I'm fairly sure that a bridge over the railway has already been ruled out because to make the gradients acceptable the run off would have to be so long on the north side that it would encroach on local residences.
jfowkes
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Disregarding the cost/disruption element, is it possible, just from an technical/engineering point of view, to combine raising the railway and lowering the road to get the necessary clearance for cars/vans? Providing clearance for HGVs doesn't seem like a requirement, though it would rule out double-decker buses.
12LDA28C
Established Member
The crossing is very close to Bicester Village station so that would appear to rule that option out unless you rebuild or move the station.
What is the anticipated (max?) wait time for a vehicle with the present 2tph Oxford <> Marylebone plus the planned 2tph Oxford<> Bletchley/MK/ beyond?
Are more trains than that likely? What might the costs be for any crossing replacement? Might I suggest it's not worth it (other than to get some votes?).
Are more trains than that likely? What might the costs be for any crossing replacement? Might I suggest it's not worth it (other than to get some votes?).
swt_passenger
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EWR plans are now for timetable increases in various phases, (connection stages), but have been fairly consistent in wanting 2 tph Oxford to Milton Keynes initially, then another 2 tph Oxford to Bedford and then these to be extended to points further east. So yes, more trains are likely through Bicester, although not more than 2 tph each way on day 1.
The Planner
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Strike in points for the barriers are 90 seconds away on the marylebone side, also about that for a non stopping Bicester train from the Oxford side. Its lower from Oxford if you are stopping. So if its 8 trains per hour, then you are looking around 15 minutes per hour down time.
Thank you; it looks like even if trains are 'crossing' at the crossing, there will be little delay and plenty of time in the intervening intervals.
In passing, some Forumites may find some of the attached Langford Village Community Association of interest, esp e.g that related to level crossing 'closure':
Planning - LVCA
lvca.org.uk
12LDA28C
Established Member
There's no such thing as a non-stopping train from the Oxford side. All trains are checked down to the signal protecting the level crossing, it's not possible to route even an ECS train straight through over the LC on clear signals.
The problems start when a Marylebone-bound train arrives at Bicester early and the barriers are lowered on the crossing a few minutes prior to the train's departure time. When this happens, the barriers could easily be down to road traffic for 5 minutes or more. The barriers will certainly be down for much more than 15 minutes per hour when EWR begins operation.
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The Planner
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Signalling has a strike in point for non-stopping trains though, which is further back at Bicester Depot West Jn, the stopping train strike in is at Bicester Depot East. There are stopping train controls for the level crossing.
Im not sure that the barriers being down for 25% of the hour comes under "little delay"Thank you; it looks like even if trains are 'crossing' at the crossing, there will be little delay and plenty of time in the intervening intervals.
In passing, some Forumites may find some of the attached Langford Village Community Association of interest, esp e.g that related to level crossing 'closure':
Planning - LVCA
Andyjs247
Member
I think one of the biggest failures of the authorities was not to raise these concerns with the original consultations in around 2009/10. That and the failure to progress with other options - there was also a plan for Gavray Drive (currently a road that serves as an access to new Langford from the ring road to link with Launton Road) in the vicinity of Gavray Jn. When the land did become available the authorities allowed housing and a supermarket to be built in the way. A road here would have provided a viable alternative to crossing the line at London Road and an alternative way into town from the south.
EWR will add another 2tph each way between Oxford and Milton Keynes. Plus another 1tph to/from Bedford and eventually Cambridge and whatever freight might run. Signalling changes have helped a bit with downtime (now 3-4 minutes for a train from Marylebone as opposed 4-5 minutes) but with 10tph plus freight over the crossing the likely barrier down time could still be as much as 45-50 minutes per hour. Consider also that Bicester and surrounding villages south of the railway are due to accommodate many more houses in the coming years with more traffic coming into town and barrier downtime is a big concern.
EWR will add another 2tph each way between Oxford and Milton Keynes. Plus another 1tph to/from Bedford and eventually Cambridge and whatever freight might run. Signalling changes have helped a bit with downtime (now 3-4 minutes for a train from Marylebone as opposed 4-5 minutes) but with 10tph plus freight over the crossing the likely barrier down time could still be as much as 45-50 minutes per hour. Consider also that Bicester and surrounding villages south of the railway are due to accommodate many more houses in the coming years with more traffic coming into town and barrier downtime is a big concern.
12LDA28C
Established Member
Fair enough, that would make sense if trains were routed straight through but it seems rather pointless as all trains are checked.
rower40
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Two trebuchets, two large trampolines. There’s just not enough will to think outside the box these days.
67018
Member
I'm not personally bothered, I live the other end of town and was just trying to explain that finding a solution is pretty tricky. The reason 5 of the 6 proposed solutions were rejected was not due to local opposition but down mainly to cost and engineering feasibility.
Some projections suggest that in future the crossing would be closed for 50 minutes per hour or more. That not only affects local residents who have no other road crossing the railway between the A41 and the ring road, it also spreads congestion more widely across the town. Bicester town is walkable/bikable via the bridge at the east end of Garth Park but that diversion will still double the distance for some people which is not great especially for those who are less mobile or loaded down with a ton of shopping and kids so don't expect them to be happy about it. It's not as if this is stopping EWR being built - as it is it's likely to open with no mitigation in place at all.
This document may shed some light - noting that it refers to about half a dozen previous studies over the last 10-15 years showing that the lack of a satisfactory solution is not for the want of trying. https://www.oxfordshire.gov.uk/site...r-projects/Bicester-LondonRdLevelCrossing.pdf
midlandred
Member
Thank you!
There must be (and are) many similar town locations of level crossings, some with a greater intensity of rail and/or road traffic. I reminded myself of the Barnes Lane (?) crossing between Motspur Park (with another level crossing) and Raynes Park (with a recent 'case' of a car on the track), and its layout limitations
I also found this Network Rail tabulation of every crossing (in 2019?) at post #10 on this interesting thread:
I think it will be a long time before the intensity of use at London Road (B4100?) at Bicester will justify the inordinate expenditure and environmental damage.
Arguably the greatest damage will be inflicted if EWR and/or Chiltern services are restricted by this 'constraint' as appears to have been the case in North wales:
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/tfw-liverpool-cardiff.258346/ at post#18 et seq ....
Car on Track near Motspur Park — Major Disruption to SWR Suburban Services
A motor car has somehow ended up on the track at the West Barnes Lane level crossing between Motspur Park and Raynes Park, the picture below has been borrowed from a local gossip site. The motor has a 'P' -- newly-passed driver -- sticker on it, which might be relevant. It is also very close to...
www.railforums.co.uk
I also found this Network Rail tabulation of every crossing (in 2019?) at post #10 on this interesting thread:
Trivia: Busiest level crossings by both road and rail usage combined
Mount Pleasant level crossing in Southampton is often regarded as one of the busiest in terms of trains per day using it, however it is situated on a relatively quiet residential street so has little road traffic going over it. On the other hand, the crossing on the A10 at Foxton has fewer...
www.railforums.co.uk
I think it will be a long time before the intensity of use at London Road (B4100?) at Bicester will justify the inordinate expenditure and environmental damage.
Arguably the greatest damage will be inflicted if EWR and/or Chiltern services are restricted by this 'constraint' as appears to have been the case in North wales:
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/tfw-liverpool-cardiff.258346/ at post#18 et seq ....