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Letter from TFL - Investigation Appeals and Prosecutions Team

Haywain

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because the letter is for and addressed to my partner, if her journey was paid for then there was no offence committed?
There may be an argument that the fare was paid but at the same time I think there is a valid case for saying that the ticket barrier was not used in the correct manner, and that is also an offence. I think it could be very difficult to argue that neither offence has been committed.
 
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AlterEgo

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Yes this is quite a quandary because strictly speaking your partner could deny that an offence took place and provide the bank account statement to provide proof of payment.

However this ignores the reality that only one fare was paid and two persons travelled and imho TfL would not let that rest.
They'd have to take the details of the person who actually didn't pay their fare to do that, which they neglected to do. Hard cheese, TfL.

No evidence on the face of it that the OP's partner didn't pay the fare, and no evidence they contravened a bylaw in respect of barrier misuse. They used the barrier in a perfectly legitimate way, as many people do - by having someone else tap their device.

There may be an argument that the fare was paid but at the same time I think there is a valid case for saying that the ticket barrier was not used in the correct manner, and that is also an offence. I think it could be very difficult to argue that neither offence has been committed.
In what way did the OP's partner not use a ticket barrier in the correct manner? It's not forbidden nor is it unusual for someone else to hold your ticket, or pay on your behalf. This bylaw criminalises people who jump the barrier, force the gates, crawl under them, or try to game them. There is no evidence at all the OP's partner did this at all - they passed through normally, the fare having been paid for them by the mother tapping her own card. They have paid their fare and showed a valid ticket (the mother's validated card), and used the barrier correctly.

It's actually the mother they want to pursue, for (allegedly) pushing the barriers and, having got through to the other side *second*, it was actually her who hadn't paid her fare!

This notwithstanding, a lot rests on what was said to the inspector at the time, especially if the partner made a straight up admission they didn't pay their fare (because perhaps at the time they asserted the tap was for the mother's fare, and the mother presented her card as evidence the mother had paid her fare), or similar. It is very important the OP gets a handle on what was said, exactly, by whom, as it will have been recorded either on bodycam or on contemporaneous notes by the inspector.
 

njr001

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if the OP’s partner was to register her mother’s card with TFL would she have access to her journey history to prove that she had paid fare?
 

Haywain

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It's not forbidden nor is it unusual for someone else to hold your ticket, or pay on your behalf. This bylaw criminalises people who jump the barrier, force the gates, crawl under them, or try to game them. There is no evidence at all the OP's partner did this at all - they passed through normally, the fare having been paid for them by the mother tapping her own card.
Two people went through on one tap - to me that says that they didn't use the barrier in the correct manner.
 

AlterEgo

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Two people went through on one tap - to me that says that they didn't use the barrier in the correct manner.
The partner went through entirely legitimately, the mother squeezed through the closed barriers. It's the partner who is getting the letter.

That someone else tailgates behind you or otherwise misuses the barrier is of no evidence that *you* misused the barrier.
 

Titfield

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They'd have to take the details of the person who actually didn't pay their fare to do that, which they neglected to do. Hard cheese, TfL.

No evidence on the face of it that the OP's partner didn't pay the fare, and no evidence they contravened a bylaw in respect of barrier misuse. They used the barrier in a perfectly legitimate way, as many people do - by having someone else tap their device.


In what way did the OP's partner not use a ticket barrier in the correct manner? It's not forbidden nor is it unusual for someone else to hold your ticket, or pay on your behalf. This bylaw criminalises people who jump the barrier, force the gates, crawl under them, or try to game them. There is no evidence at all the OP's partner did this at all - they passed through normally, the fare having been paid for them by the mother tapping her own card. They have paid their fare and showed a valid ticket (the mother's validated card), and used the barrier correctly.

It's actually the mother they want to pursue, for (allegedly) pushing the barriers and, having got through to the other side *second*, it was actually her who hadn't paid her fare!

This notwithstanding, a lot rests on what was said to the inspector at the time, especially if the partner made a straight up admission they didn't pay their fare (because perhaps at the time they asserted the tap was for the mother's fare, and the mother presented her card as evidence the mother had paid her fare), or similar. It is very important the OP gets a handle on what was said, exactly, by whom, as it will have been recorded either on bodycam or on contemporaneous notes by the inspector.

I appreciate your view and I dont disagree with the assertion that the mother paid the fare for the daughter and therefore there is no case to answer. However the daughter has to prove that her fare was paid. If TfL are not convinced that the proof of payment provided actually does that then they may decide that their simplest solution is to move to prosecute and let the court decide as to whether or not an offence was committed by the person charged.
 

AlterEgo

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I appreciate your view and I dont disagree with the assertion that the mother paid the fare for the daughter and therefore there is no case to answer. However the daughter has to prove that her fare was paid.
I agree - hence getting proof of payment, and coupling this with the (I assume undisputed) assertion that they passed through the barrier first, is key. And of course this is caveated by a significant unknown, namely what was said to the inspector.
 

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