Cambridge platform changes

wagnaga · 10 Mar 2024

Is there a particular cause for why trains get re-platformed between 1 and 7 or 8? It seems to happen more than occasionally and the volumes of people it involves is always significant. Is there anything that can be done proactively with platforming to reduce the risk? It happened this morning with the 0922 to Kings Cross being switched to platform 8 and I wonder if this was due to the northbound 0923 Greater Anglia service. If this was the cause then it feels like a conflict that can really easily arise.

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Snow1964 · 10 Mar 2024

Nearly all last minute platform changes are due to booked platform being blocked by something unscheduled at that time (usually a delayed train)

However modern route setting and semi-automatic operation, means many signallers have big areas to cover and so aren't able to watch and spot any potential conflicts 5-15 minutes minutes ahead. The result is late announcements rather than ones in good time.

With the exception of cross platform, really ought to be a rule that the announcement should be minimum minutes ahead as per the advertised connection time, and the signallers staffed to a level so that happens.

Those minimum times are there for a reason (some walk slow), otherwise will encourage everyone to huddle on footbridges or by steps rather than spreading out along platform in case of late changes. Simple rule if don't want crowding by steps (a safety concern) then announce changes in adequate time. Late announcements compromise safety, but some seem to forget that.

HughT · 10 Mar 2024

The absence of a footbridge at the south end of Cambridge station makes things particularly bad. Most folk heading to London head for the south end of the relevant platform, so if a train is replatformed across the other side of the station (as in this morning's case with the 0922) it's a hellish walk/scramble. Especially with a suitcase, or if you're not that fit.

700720 · 10 Mar 2024

As a regular user of the Thameslink services from Cambridge, it is very annoying when the platform is changed between 1 and 7/8. I now wait in the concourse until the train actually arrives to avoid having to run across the bridge when the platform is altered.

Class800 · 10 Mar 2024

Late platform changes at stations are not a new issue. At London Bridge when I was younger (25+ years ago now), I was with my dad awaiting the Hastings train on the old platform 5 (which served the long distance services originating from Charing Cross). As it pulled in, there was a barked announcement, 'platform alteration, Hastings service, platform 4'. It left on time, most people were still on the other platform/on the footbridge as it was confidently whistled off on time. At Cambridge, when I lived there, the only changes I saw were occasionally between 1 and 4 which are other end of same long platform, but 7/8 wasn't there when I lived there

dk1 · 10 Mar 2024

It’s just unfortunate and not something that can be easily solved due to the layout of Cambridge station. Before 7/8 were built a few years ago trains would simply be delayed outside for any amount of time. Remember though there are a lot more trains and longer ones at that passing through the station now.

Steve Harris · 10 Mar 2024

HughT said:
The absence of a footbridge at the south end of Cambridge station makes things particularly bad. Most folk heading to London head for the south end of the relevant platform, so if a train is replatformed across the other side of the station (as in this morning's case with the 0922) it's a hellish walk/scramble. Especially with a suitcase, or if you're not that fit.

I don't think it is the "absence" of a footbridge at the South end of the station which is the problem, it's more to do with the footbridge being in the wrong place (ie at the north end and not in the centre of the station) to begin with - this however was due to the station being a listed building - but because of that it has caused another problem ( the one you mention) which it seems is not being taken into account when platform alterations are necessary.

dk1 said:
It’s just unfortunate and not something that can be easily solved due to the layout of Cambridge station. Before 7/8 were built a few years ago trains would simply be delayed outside for any amount of time. Remember though there are a lot more trains and longer ones at that passing through the station now.

Indeed. And this problem will probably get worse when/if East West Rail arrives.

Bikeman78 · 10 Mar 2024

Snow1964 said:
Nearly all last minute platform changes are due to booked platform being blocked by something unscheduled at that time (usually a delayed train)

However modern route setting and semi-automatic operation, means many signallers have big areas to cover and so aren't able to watch and spot any potential conflicts 5-15 minutes minutes ahead. The result is late announcements rather than ones in good time.

With the exception of cross platform, really ought to be a rule that the announcement should be minimum minutes ahead as per the advertised connection time, and the signallers staffed to a level so that happens.

Those minimum times are there for a reason (some walk slow), otherwise will encourage everyone to huddle on footbridges or by steps rather than spreading out along platform in case of late changes. Simple rule if don't want crowding by steps (a safety concern) then announce changes in adequate time. Late announcements compromise safety, but some seem to forget that.

Cambridge has been awkward for as long as I can remember. Even before platform 7 & 8 were built, people were always hurtling from the north end to the south and vice versa to make tight connections.

In 2022, the line was blocked at Bishop's Stortford. Cambridge to Liverpool Street trains were diverted into Stansted Airport. Passengers from Stansted to London had to travel via Cambridge. I was on one such train. The King's Cross train was on platform 1, platform 2 was empty but my train trundled slowly into platform 4 with two minutes to go. I pointed out the King's Cross train to everyone as we went past. As soon as the doors opened, there was a mass stampede along the length of the station! Had the Stansted train gone into platform 2, everyone could have walked across in about 10 seconds, and they would have been spread out rather than all trying to get into the rear coach.

HughT · 10 Mar 2024

Hence the ghastly yellow barriers erected a year or so ago...

Class 170101 · 10 Mar 2024

Bikeman78 said:
In 2022, the line was blocked at Bishop's Stortford. Cambridge to Liverpool Street trains were diverted into Stansted Airport. Passengers from Stansted to London had to travel via Cambridge. I was on one such train. The King's Cross train was on platform 1, platform 2 was empty but my train trundled slowly into platform 4 with two minutes to go. I pointed out the King's Cross train to everyone as we went past. As soon as the doors opened, there was a mass stampede along the length of the station! Had the Stansted train gone into platform 2, everyone could have walked across in about 10 seconds, and they would have been spread out rather than all trying to get into the rear coach.

The trains were formed of 10 / 12 carriages and as such they woouldn't have fit on Platforms 2 and 3.

Bikeman78 · 10 Mar 2024

Class 170101 said:
The trains were formed of 10 / 12 carriages and as such they woouldn't have fit on Platforms 2 and 3.

To clarify, the train from Stansted to Cambridge was a pair of 317s, which definitely fits on platform 2. I was probably the only happy person on that train as the Stansted north curve was my last bit of gettable 317 track for 2022!

Steve Harris · 10 Mar 2024

Bikeman78 said:
To clarify, the train from Stansted to Cambridge was a pair of 317s, which definitely fits on platform 2. I was probably the only happy person on that train as the Stansted north curve was my last bit of gettable 317 track for 2022!

Indeed. An 8 car 317 will fit in platform 2 and platform 3.

As for track bashing the Stansted North curve, I did it decades ago in a Class 303 !!!

Going back to your original point, was the inbound service due to go to the carriage Sidings? (as that would have a bearing on were you got platformed).

dk1 · 10 Mar 2024

Steve Harris said:
Indeed. An 8 car 317 will fit in platform 2 and platform 3.

As for track bashing the Stansted North curve, I did it decades ago in a Class 303 !!!

Going back to your original point, was the inbound service due to go to the carriage Sidings? (as that would have a bearing on were you got platformed).

You sure it was a 303?

Steve Harris · 10 Mar 2024

Yes !!

It was the same day a Class 59 was named at Cambridge. (14th Sept 1991 to be exact).

dk1 · 10 Mar 2024

Steve Harris said:
Yes !!

It was the same day a Class 59 was named at Cambridge. (14th Sept 1991 to be exact).

Okay. I was thinking you meant a 305 rather than a ‘Blue Train’ from Strathclyde. If that was NSE day I was there too.

Steve Harris · 10 Mar 2024

dk1 said:
Okay. I was thinking you meant a 305 rather than a ‘Blue Train’ from Strathclyde. If that was NSE day I was there too.

And the "BlueTrain" was a Class 303 was it not ?

dk1 · 10 Mar 2024

Steve Harris said:
And the "BlueTrain" was a Class 303 was it not ?

Sure was. My apologies I see it was 303048. No idea why I didn’t do that. Just went northbound towards Ely/Lynn a few times. Must’ve been the ale intake :lol:

camflyer · 10 Mar 2024

HughT said:
The absence of a footbridge at the south end of Cambridge station makes things particularly bad. Most folk heading to London head for the south end of the relevant platform, so if a train is replatformed across the other side of the station (as in this morning's case with the 0922) it's a hellish walk/scramble. Especially with a suitcase, or if you're not that fit.

There is supposed to be a southern footbridge as part of the plans for an eventual eastern entrance to the station on Clifton Rd if is ever built. It would also relieve the overcrowding around the main entrance.

dk1 · 10 Mar 2024

camflyer said:
There is supposed to be a southern footbridge as part of the plans for an eventual eastern entrance to the station on Clifton Rd if is ever built. It would also relieve the overcrowding around the main entrance.

Good to hear. I thought it was just an extension of the existing footbridge.

Horizon22 · 10 Mar 2024

Late platform changes are one of the annoyance of platform staff and passengers alike and sometimes controllers too.

However without huge investment, the issue is never going to go away. A thread like this comes up every few months.

wagnaga · 10 Mar 2024

I guess part of the problem is Cambridge needing more through platforms than they have today and fewer bays. Not a problem that is easily resolved.

plugwash · 11 Mar 2024

Snow1964 said:
Nearly all last minute platform changes are due to booked platform being blocked by something unscheduled at that time (usually a delayed train)

And at a busy station, a small number of delayed trains can cascade into a whole series of platform alterations as each platform alteration itself becomes a blockage.

Magdalia · 11 Mar 2024

camflyer said:
There is supposed to be a southern footbridge as part of the plans for an eventual eastern entrance to the station on Clifton Rd if is ever built. It would also relieve the overcrowding around the main entrance.

Does this so called plan have any official status?

A south end footbridge has the same challenge as the existing north end footbridge: it is only possible by shortening a bay platform to make space for the stairs and lift on the old station side. The result would be platform 2 no longer able to take 160m 8 car trains.

The impact on the main entrance would not be great: a few people who live on the Romsey side of the line and walk to/from the station, and the students going to and from Hills Road College. I doubt that a Clifton Road entrance would have any public transport links. The only bus route that uses Cherry Hinton Road already goes via the main station entrance.

Steve Harris · 11 Mar 2024

Magdalia said:
The impact on the main entrance would not be great: a few people who live on the ~~Romsey~~ Coleridge side of the line and walk to/from the station, and the students going to and from Hills Road College. I doubt that a Clifton Road entrance would have any public transport links. The only bus route that uses Cherry Hinton Road already goes via the main station entrance.

Ive changed that for you, due to the following:-
Romsey residents already use the present Carter bridge, any new bridge to the south would be beneficial to the residents of the Coleridge area of the city, and potentially some residents of the Queen Ediths ward.

plugwash said:
And at a busy station, a small number of delayed trains can cascade into a whole series of platform alterations as each platform alteration itself becomes a blockage.

Indeed.

Cambridge has got a LOT busier since my days on the station spotting. Back then it was 1tph London, 2tph Royston, 1train per 2 hrs King's Lynn, ditto for Ipswich (more tph in the peak). How many do we have in the off peak now ? 5 (or is it 6) towards Hitchen/London alone !! Then you have the Norwich -Stansted and Birmingham- Stansted's to add + Ipswich.

dk1 · 11 Mar 2024

Steve Harris said:
Cambridge has got a LOT busier since my days on the station spotting. Back then it was 1tph London, 2tph Royston, 1train per 2 hrs King's Lynn, ditto for Ipswich (more tph in the peak). How many do we have in the off peak now ? 5 (or is it 6) towards Hitchen/London alone !! Then you have the Norwich -Stansted and Birmingham- Stansted's to add + Ipswich.

Half-hourly all day Kings X to Ely (hourly Lynn off peak half hourly peak) plus half hourly Liv St to Cambridge North.

Steve Harris · 11 Mar 2024

dk1 said:
Half-hourly all day Kings X to Ely (hourly Lynn off peak half hourly peak) plus half hourly Liv St to Cambridge North.

Yep.

I'd say the station see's over double the services what it used to see pre electrification.

Magdalia · 11 Mar 2024

Steve Harris said:
Ive changed that for you, due to the following:-
Romsey residents already use the present Carter bridge, any new bridge to the south would be beneficial to the residents of the Coleridge area of the city, and potentially some residents of the Queen Ediths ward.

I was referring to Romsey as a geographical area, not an election ward. Anywhere north of Davy Road and Radegund Road is geographically Romsey, although parts are in Coleridge election ward. My grandmother lived in Hobart Road and never fully recovered from being moved from Romsey ward to Coleridge ward! People living in the Coleridge ward also use the Carter Bridge, walking up Davy Road or Greville Road.

Most of Queen Edith's is not within walking distance of the main station, from next year people walking to the train from parts of Queen Edith's will be using Cambridge South, which is nearer than the main station.

Steve Harris · 11 Mar 2024

Magdalia said:
I was referring to Romsey as a geographical area, not an election ward. Anywhere north of Davy Road and Radegund Road is geographically Romsey, although parts are in Coleridge election ward. My grandmother lived in Hobart Road and never fully recovered from being moved from Romsey ward to Coleridge ward! People living in the Coleridge ward also use the Carter Bridge, walking up Davy Road or Greville Road.

Most of Queen Edith's is not within walking distance of the main station, from next year people walking to the train from parts of Queen Edith's will be using Cambridge South, which is nearer than the main station.

Yes, people from Coleridge use the existing bridge, however, if a new bridge to the south was built some would switch to the new bridge as it would be a shorter walk (e.g. residents of fanshaw road), hence why I said it would be a benefit to the residents of Coleridge !

As for Queen Edith's residents, I did say "some" residents (which means, not all or "most") would find a new bridge a benefit, but I guessed you skipped read past that word, as people living in Rock Road for example will still find it quicker to walk to the current station than trek to Cambridge South.

Magdalia · 11 Mar 2024

Steve Harris said:
Yes, people from Coleridge use the existing bridge, however, if a new bridge to the south was built some would switch to the new bridge as it would be a shorter walk (e.g. residents of fanshaw road), hence why I said it would be a benefit to the residents of Coleridge !

As for Queen Edith's residents, I did say "some" residents (which means, not all or "most") would find a new bridge a benefit, but I guessed you skipped read past that word, as people living in Rock Road for example will still find it quicker to walk to the current station than trek to Cambridge South.

Yes, people in Fanshawe Road and Rock Road would benefit, but there aren't very many of them and the benefits are marginal.

dk1 · 11 Mar 2024

Steve Harris said:
Yep.

I'd say the station see's over double the services what it used to see pre electrification.

And around treble the passenger numbers. Crazy place these days. The South can't come quick enough.

Cambridge platform changes

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