noddingdonkey
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I assume that it relies on somebody at Huddersfield telling them that the service has been cancelled?
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First West Yorkshire & York discussion
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dodecahedron67
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Cancellations are still done by Ops Supervisors (Controllers) at each individual depot
noddingdonkey
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Attention to detail or basic common courtesy? If you're going to cancel a bus - especially with the pathetic frequency on many routes - it demonstrates an utter contempt for passengers not to let people know about it, and as early as possible so they can adjust their plans?
Baxenden Bank
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It is not just a West Yorkshire problem!
Same in First Potteries. Only very rarely are 'on the day' cancellations / disruptions tweeted or put on the website. Generally if the whole network has collapsed due to the M6 being closed. Part of the problem is also a lack consistency, some advance roadworks are publicised, others not. This is rather important if the route is altered and stops are bing missed out. But remember, it is always someone else's fault when ridership declines, never Firsts!
In this day and age, it should not be difficult to have a menu set up for each service and journey which only requires a tick box to be completed by the depot supervisor in order to trigger 'journey cancelled' messages on websites and social media.
dodecahedron67
Member
The website and social media are not automated. Even if a depot supervisor were to input the trip as cancelled, the social media team need to be checking the cancellations list on ticketer
I'm not suggesting they are automated, but I am saying thst it should not be difficult to do so, neither should there be a need for the social media team to review and second guess a depot supervisor for an automated message. Who is most likely to first know if a journey has been cancelled?
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dodecahedron67
Member
The system is very simple.
Depot supervisor inputs the cancellations along with a reason - fx breakdown, traffic, lack of staff, etc.
The social media team should do a check of this each morning and update with pre-planned cancellations.
But…
We all know that isn’t what happens at pretty much all bus depots, not just First Hudds. Back in the days it probably wasn’t much of a problem but the frequency of many services is so poor these days that it really does matter to passengers. The bus operators need to understand this.
As an example I was waiting for a service which was supposed to be every 30 minutes a couple of days ago. App said bus was due but it didn’t turn up. Thought the next one would only for the app to just drop it at the last minute and the one 35 minutes after that was only then marked as cancelled in the app.
That’s over 2 hours without a bus but didn’t know that was the case because nobody was updating the app. Using buses is a nightmare these days, who’d bother if they didn’t really have to?
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It also doesn't help that you can't find out this sort of information unless you have the FirstBus app, as the information does not make it out to all info sources due to technical issues or by design. A hell of a lot of local knowledge is needed to adequately get around by bus, which people would find barmy if you applied to trains, planes or the road. No downloading three apps to drive around Leeds, whereas for buses you need the apps for Arriva, First and Blazefield plus the experience to interpret what the app is saying and what it means in reality.
Personally I prefer to use Metro Next Bus which I find is quicker to use and is usually reliable when it comes to cancellations, at least in Leeds. This being browser based there is no app to download so I just save the page on my mobile home screen.
The attached screenshot is of my local stop and shows an upcoming cancellation and I never leave the house without checking this first so I can see exactly the state of play. I use this for every single bus journey I make in West Yorkshire - easy peasy and no need to be checking different apps or trawling through X (Twitter). Occasionally I might also refer to Bustimes.Org if there is any doubt, such as when Next Bus is just showing a scheduled time rather than real time.
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I have to disagree that it’s easy peasy if you’re not a very experienced bus user. It still needs a lot of research to get anywhere. WY is lucky to have that metro app, most places you would be using multiple bus operators apps , and even worse, Twitter. That one really grinds my gears that we’re expected in some areas to use Twitter to track information about local buses because the operators can’t be bothered to post it anywhere else. Digging through all sorts of crap to find it your only bus for 2 hours is cancelled and they only posted it in Twitter at the start of the day so you have to read back through pages of junk to find it! Rant over!
I agree. It should not be difficult to update a Twitter feed ever half hour to show current cancellation.
noddingdonkey
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I rarely see accurate info on cancellations on the First app. You're expected to work it out based on whether the bus is tracking and showing a number of free seats (as where it states live and xx mins is often just a countdown to the scheduled departure and not really live). You do see cancellations show up on Metro's feeds.
D6130
Established Member
The printed timetable posters at the bus stops in Hebden Bridge still haven't been changed the best part of a month since the changes. They're still showing a more frequent service than that which actually exists.
The timetable posters for the 542, previously Norton Tower-Siddal, but now just Norton Tower-Halifax, have now finally been updated to show the new times, but under a banner that says '542 to Siddal'.
Competence really isn't a difficult ask....
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noddingdonkey
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It took several months (and multiple nudges of Metro) to get the timetables on my route updated after the 184 was diverted away and the evening service was pulled.
I've just complained to Metro that the recently updated timetables on the 523 near me give the first service M-F as 0934, totally ignoring the services at 06:29 07:34 07:59 08:34 and 09:04. Similarly, on Saturday the services at 08:04 08:34 09:04 aren't shown.
(This is the first update since they gave up during Covid.)
(This is the first update since they gave up during Covid.)
YorkRailFan
On Moderation
Doesn't say by how much the frequency is improving, but that does mean that the Bendies will be staying for quite some time until First York has enough EVs to operate the increased frequency.
Doesn't say by how much the frequency is improving, but that does mean that the Bendies will be staying for quite some time until First York has enough EVs to operate the increased frequency.
Bustimes.org suggests in the middle of the day from every 12 minutes to every 10 minutes, remaining at every 12 during the peaks, with Sundays going from every 12 to every 10 minutes and Saturdays from every 12 to every 8.
Leedsbusman
Member
Quite a lot of extra running time too +9 mins on the 1604 round trip for example. Looks like 4 PVR v 3 currently. Presume the reality of running inbound Bootham has landed.
noddingdonkey
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Huddersfield 382 and 383 timetables are now on BusTimes.org.
The 382 and 184 are both going to be every two hours on a Sunday. Of course, running them in alternate hours would be far too convenient for passengers, so the pattern leaving Huddersfield bus station is:
10.29 (382)
10.33 (184)
12.29 (382)
12.33 (184)
14.29 (382)
14.33 (184)
16.29 (382)
16.33 (184)
The 382 and 184 are both going to be every two hours on a Sunday. Of course, running them in alternate hours would be far too convenient for passengers, so the pattern leaving Huddersfield bus station is:
10.29 (382)
10.33 (184)
12.29 (382)
12.33 (184)
14.29 (382)
14.33 (184)
16.29 (382)
16.33 (184)
Steve440
Member
Whatever timetable used would be inconvenient because of the different running times. There is already a two-hourly service to Wilberlee on Sundays (396 route) which leaves Huddersfield at 11.40, 13.40 etc so there would have been two buses to Wilberlee together every two hours.
dodecahedron67
Member
Yes with regard to 2s (PVR goes to 4 buses weekdays, 5 on saturdays, think it’s also 4 on sundays but would need to check).
Goes to 12 min at peaks to try and keep to time, 48 min round trip vs 40 off peak (incl. layover time)
Easter increases up to every 10 min on other P&R 3/7/8/9 as well for the holidays
Bootham not as bad as expected, but still bad
Currently there is an extra bus out the yard at 1556 on weekdays on 2s, this just becomes an all day board vs evenings only.
Saturdays PVR reduced by a few buses here and there so have the spares. This Saturday fx we have 4 extra buses going on Y22s for football.
Sunday PVR is lower still so 1 extra bus is easily resourced
Goes to 12 min at peaks to try and keep to time, 48 min round trip vs 40 off peak (incl. layover time)
Easter increases up to every 10 min on other P&R 3/7/8/9 as well for the holidays
Bootham not as bad as expected, but still bad
Already have the EVs to operate.
Doesn't say by how much the frequency is improving, but that does mean that the Bendies will be staying for quite some time until First York has enough EVs to operate the increased frequency.
Currently there is an extra bus out the yard at 1556 on weekdays on 2s, this just becomes an all day board vs evenings only.
Saturdays PVR reduced by a few buses here and there so have the spares. This Saturday fx we have 4 extra buses going on Y22s for football.
Sunday PVR is lower still so 1 extra bus is easily resourced
It’d be impossible to ensure they were evenly spaced in both directions and also evenly spaced with the 396
they are evenly spaced 2/3 of those options, you’ve chosen to highlight the one they aren’t
noddingdonkey
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Well to be fair I chose to highlight the one that affects me on the part of Manchester Road that only gets the 184 and 382 going forward.
Currently on a Sunday there is an hourly 185 to Slaithwaite (and Marsden). Now there are the same number of buses but 5 minutes apart with a 2 hour gap.
Currently on a Sunday there is an hourly 185 to Slaithwaite (and Marsden). Now there are the same number of buses but 5 minutes apart with a 2 hour gap.
there is also a 184 at 18.33 info on bustimes timetable on Sundays
noddingdonkey
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Yes, I was highlighting the hours when there is also a 382 just 4 minutes apart rather than them combining to give an hourly service.
That bus is also in the timetable on the Bee Network bus site.
Notably, First are running just in front of the competition.