What does "Not valid on trains timed to depart" actually mean?

Bletchleyite said:

Nothing new in the world - BR once had White and Blue Savers.

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Later Savers and SuperSavers, of course, and their presence continues to linger in the form of Low and High rate days for Inclusive Tour tickets issued by same travel agents as part of a package deal.

High rate days being every Friday and Sunday, public holidays, Maundy Thursday and approximately two weeks over Christmas and New Year (20th December to 1st January inclusive for 2024-25.)

etr221 said:

Perhaps any train announcement should include which restrictions are - or are not - (which might be longer?) valid on it? Trivia question - which train has the longest list?

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Not even remotely practical as things stand. Restrictions are dependent on the ticketed journey, rather than the train.

For example:

• The Return portion of an Off-Peak Day Return from High Wycombe to London isn't valid to depart London between 16:00 and 19:00.
• An Off-Peak Day Travelcard from High Wycombe has no PM peak restriction.
• The Return portion of an Off-Peak Day Return from Saunderton to London also has no PM peak restriction.
• The Outward portion of an Off-Peak Return from London to Bicester isn't valid before 08:30, but one from London to Banbury is unrestricted.

Granted Train Companies could simplify matters, but you can guarantee it wouldn't be in the customer's favour!

Class800 said:

On real time trains, national rail live departures app, etc. What is intended by this seems prima facie clear, but in practice a bit shades of grey

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If a train is part cancelled, on the National Rail Enquiries app it will just say cancelled against the stations cancelled with no departure time displayed.

infobleep said:

If a train is part cancelled, on the National Rail Enquiries app it will just say cancelled against the stations cancelled with no departure time displayed.

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And that is a key problem. One is left thinking the service service has been cancelled altogether when in some cases one could drive to the next station and pick the service up.

TUC said:

And that is a key problem. One is left thinking the service service has been cancelled altogether when in some cases one could drive to the next station and pick the service up.

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For avoidance of doubt, my comment wasn't to do with people being able to drive to another station but thinking the whole service was cancelled, as this would be off topic.

My point was how you know what time the train would have departed London Waterloo, if it had been cancelled at London Waterloo but was still running from a station further south and you were boarding from the station further south. On the National Rail Enquiries App live depature board it will just say cancelled. You might even be joining the train at a point after the train would have departed London Waterloo.

infobleep said:

My point was how you know what time the train would have departed London Waterloo, if it had been cancelled at London Waterloo but was still running from a station further south and you were boarding from the station further south. On the National Rail Enquiries App live depature board it will just say cancelled. You might even be joining the train at a point after the train would have departed London Waterloo.

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I get your point, if say an Exeter service started from Basingstoke due to disruption, but the train was originally timed to depart Waterloo at 6pm then as written, the restriction still applies.

In theory even if you were doing say Salisbury to Yeovil at nearer 8pm, the timed to depart Waterloo is worded that it would apply to that train, regardless of where you board. If that is not the intended interpretation then wording is wrong.

I guess it is to stop you buying separate ticket to intermediate station (eg Clapham Junction) and Boarding there.

Haywain said:

I see your interpretation as the correct one. If SWR want it to mean something else they should change the wording to make it clear.


Edit: Having looked at the specific restriction code, it is clumsy in the way it is worded and appears not to mean what it says, otherwise there would be no need to mention the times of trains leaving Vauxhall and Clapham Junction.

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I took it to kean they added the other two stations just to make it clear and generally didn't travel from stations during that time period when using a ticket with that restriction.

There's a meta-question to be asked here: what does "actually mean" actually mean?

Surely, if I can find an accredited ticket retailer that implements some particular interpretation of a restriction like the one being discussed, then that's what the restriction "actually means" ? Of course, it's quite possible that two different accredited retailers can be found that implement differing interpretations of the same restriction, in which case we're really through the looking-glass in terms of "actual" meaning...

akm said:

There's a meta-question to be asked here: what does "actually mean" actually mean?

Surely, if I can find an accredited ticket retailer that implements some particular interpretation of a restriction like the one being discussed, then that's what the restriction "actually means" ? Of course, it's quite possible that two different accredited retailers can be found that implement differing interpretations of the same restriction, in which case we're really through the looking-glass in terms of "actual" meaning...

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What the wording of the restriction (as wrtitten) means is absolutely clear. What it 'actually means' in practice depends, as you say, on how the retailer you purchase the ticket from implements the restriction. What the writer of the restriction intended it to mean, who knows .... possibly exactly what they wrote (although supplementary evidence suggests otherwise); maybe the interpretation one or more retailers implement; maybe something else.

etr221 said:

Beyond saying that a train may change colour en route (and so what tickets are valid on it), what more do you need to know?

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A difficulty is in the UK, the same train will often carry local, regional and long-distance traffic.

A train from Edinburgh to plymouth, takes over 8 hours. It is almost inevitable that such a train will hit rush hour somewhere along it's route. Even a 5 hour route like Manchester to Bournmouth is likely to hit the tails of rush hour, if not the heart of it. And some people may be making longer journeys that involve multiple trains.

The Greater Manchester and West Yorkshire (aka Leeds and it's surroundings) areas have both morning and Evening peak restrictions on most local tickets. Some other areas may do so as well, but I'm not so familiar with them.

Crosscountry have a 09:30 morning peak restriction on most of their flows, which is annoying enough by itself, but if the Manchester/Leeds evening peak restrictions were also applied to long distance travellers many long distance journeys would become very difficult to make on an off-peak ticket. More so if other regions started to introduce evening peak restricitons.