Looking after Passengers during severe service disruption.

gaillark · 19 Mar 2024

What is the protocol for looking after passengers during severe service disruption? I'm particularly interested to learn from staff (Guards, TM's, Catering or DOO drivers) what do they do and what is expected of them to look after passenger's on-board both in First Class and Standard.

Are staff required to walk through and ask each passenger whether they require onward travel, overnight accommodation and are special enhanced delay compensation forms handed out. What about food and drink etc. And what is the guidance on keeping passengers informed and providing with refreshments.

There have been many lengthy delays well in excess of two hours. I personally have been delayed for nearly five hours waiting almost four hours on a train just outside a station (Retford) waiting to access a platform (P2) that was available for two hours. Why does it take so long to access a platform even with bi-directional signalling?
My experience in first class was not that great: No food, little drink and eventually arriving into London at 0330.

Also what is expected of station staff.

These questions are in no way to 'knock' staff but of general interest how the situation is expected to be managed as staff themselves can be caught up - perhaps driver out of hours or waiting to pick up their train.

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43066 · 19 Mar 2024

gaillark said:
What is the protocol for looking after passengers during severe service disruption? I'm particularly interested to learn from staff (Guards, TM's, Catering or DOO drivers) what do they do and what is expected of them to look after passenger's on-board both in First Class and Standard.

Are staff required to walk through and ask each passenger whether they require onward travel, overnight accommodation and are special enhanced delay compensation forms handed out. What about food and drink etc. And what is the guidance on keeping passengers informed and providing with refreshments.

There have been many lengthy delays well in excess of two hours. I personally have been delayed for nearly five hours waiting almost four hours on a train just outside a station (Retford) waiting to access a platform (P2) that was available for two hours. Why does it take so long to access a platform even with bi-directional signalling?
My experience in first class was not that great: No food, little drink and eventually arriving into London at 0330.

Also what is expected of station staff.

These questions are in no way to 'knock' staff but of general interest how the situation is expected to be managed as staff themselves can be caught up - perhaps driver out of hours or waiting to pick up their train.

DOO drivers make announcements, and that’s basically it!

Taunton · 19 Mar 2024

I went through Waterloo within an hour of the outgoing train derailing there and striking the works train some years ago. Although passengers actually affected were minimal, and there was little sign of things yet posted on the departures boards, staff had already gone into position with trolleys full of bottled water to hand out. It seemed to be some standard procedure they had set in motion, possibly, given that it was August, some summertime task.

skyhigh · 19 Mar 2024

gaillark said:
and are special enhanced delay compensation forms handed out.

I have never even heard of or seen one of these.

uglymonkey · 19 Mar 2024

I've had bottle of water given out on GWR during delay and once on a Pacer in Wales, everybody emptied the trolley of food and drink ( 5+ hours - we hit a cow)

ServerHoster · 19 Mar 2024

I was once on a 1h 45m delayed TPE, after exactly an hour they started handing out drinks.

They ran out of hot water after the first carriage.

The catering woman for the train scheduled 2h after us was unaware of the disruption and turned up to the platform as normal, so they could borrow her hot water to hand out more hot drinks.

Thames99 · 19 Mar 2024

I was a passenger on XC train some years ago which was involved in a suicide. The train stopped for over two hours while anbulances including an air ambulance and various vans arrived in a nearby field with the awful task of clearing up after an incident like this. Fitters came out to check the train and a replacement driver came in a taxi to relieve the driver involved.

The staff on the train were excellent looking after the driver and coming through the train taking the details of every passenger. They couldn't be faulted as averyone was shocked. We were contacted directly by post to offer pay delay and vouchers for a free return journey. I imagine passenger details were taken partly to stop anyone taking advantage of a tragic incident to fraudulently claim delay repay. The protocol of talking to every passenger must also helpful to keep the train manager and catering staff busy ar a difficult time.

I don't remember being offered refreshments or not. I didn't feel much like eating and drinking at the time

swt_passenger · 19 Mar 2024

gaillark said:
What is the protocol for looking after passengers during severe service disruption? I'm particularly interested to learn from staff (Guards, TM's, Catering or DOO drivers) what do they do and what is expected of them to look after passenger's on-board both in First Class and Standard.

I’d be amazed if there was any difference in the duties of traincrew regarding first or standard in the sort of circumstances you’re asking about. On trains with a first class host they may well undertake some of the work, eg when I was on a badly delayed XC a few years back the first class host handed out the same bottled water in most of the train.

dk1 · 20 Mar 2024

swt_passenger said:
I’d be amazed if there was any difference in the duties of traincrew regarding first or standard in the sort of circumstances you’re asking about. On trains with a first class host they may well undertake some of the work, eg when I was on a badly delayed XC a few years back the first class host handed out the same bottled water in most of the train.

Yes there would be no difference. Everybody is in the same boat.

(Or train :lol:

)

TonyColeman2 · 20 Mar 2024

Whilst at my company we have no form of catering supplies onboard , the only time I have been stuck for a prolonged period of time fortunately the train only had 30 people onboard so I was walking up and down the train talking to every passenger personally and asking where the intended destination was and observing for any persons who may seem nervous/ distressed or potentially need extra assistance incase of a controlled evacuation which fortunately never happened, aswell as checking on the drivers welfare and taking various calls from control updating on situation

LowLevel · 20 Mar 2024

You manage the situation as best you can. Where I am the guard takes charge, can use other railway employees, the emergency services etc to help at their discretion and can do things like free issue the catering trolley (not alcohol).

I've always found the best approach is to be visible, honest and proactive. My usual method is start at the back, walk through talking to people, check in with the driver at the front, walk back and repeat.

One benefit of only working diesel trains is that it's unusual to lose all power unless there's a major issue with the train - however one thing that modern vacuum toilets have introduced is that if the train's air supply is affected you lose the ability to flush the toilets which becomes problematic quite quickly - human psychology when stuck is to kill time by doing little things which for example makes us want to pop to the toilet.

Control will also complete a stranded train checklist for things like number of people on board, any vulnerable persons, catering available, lighting/heating/public address, even down to things like how much charge the guard's phone has in order to monitor risk on board - as time goes by the risk score increases so the police or managers might be deployed to the train to provide reassurance or assistance to the crew.

It is something that quite a lot of thought goes into.

noddingdonkey · 20 Mar 2024

I was on a GC service that got stuck at Huntingdon for 3 hours due to the unit in front bringing down the OHLE. The buffet wasn't staffed on this particular service, but the guard put a supply of bottled water on the counter and made a PA announcement that it was available. Later he made some biscuits available, presumably from the 1st class snacks supply.

I couldn't fault the on board crew, plenty of announcements with just enough humour/personality to raise a smile (eg every announcement starting with a deadpan "you may have noticed that we haven't moved for a while" or similar) without being annoying, including letting us know that the guard was going to have go to the front cab to inspect the line, so wouldn't be available for a while.

Joseph T · 20 Mar 2024

uglymonkey said:
I've had bottle of water given out on GWR during delay and once on a Pacer in Wales, everybody emptied the trolley of food and drink ( 5+ hours - we hit a cow)

How would hitting a cow justify 5 hours delay!? At the very worst I'd guess it would only take up 1 hours delay!

james_the_xv · 20 Mar 2024

Joseph T said:
How would hitting a cow justify 5 hours delay!? At the very worst I'd guess it would only take up 1 hours delay!

Depends on the damage to the train, cows are heavy and fairly dense for their size (average about half a tonne).

uglymonkey · 20 Mar 2024

OK - Hit the cow, it buggered something underneath - brakes, maybe air pipe? electrics ? We could not move ( the driver did try). And we had to wait for another pacer to come and couple up and drag us to the next station. It was a single line branch in Wales, My very pregnant wife was waiting for me at the station, she had to keep going in the bushes as the station had no toilets open! It was mid afternoon when we hit, it was dark as coal when we finally arrived. Hell of a bang when we hit the cow, I thought we had derailed.

43066 · 20 Mar 2024

Joseph T said:
How would hitting a cow justify 5 hours delay!? At the very worst I'd guess it would only take up 1 hours delay!

Hitting a cow (and particularly several cows) is a very big deal due to their size and weight, has caused at least one fatal accident before, and more than one derailment:

RAIB report 05/2016: Derailment at Godmersham

RAIB has today released its report into a passenger train derailment at Godmersham, Kent, 26 July 2015

www.gov.uk

At around 21:40 hrs on 26 July 2015, a passenger train derailed after striking eight cows that had gained access to the railway at Godmersham in Kent, between Wye and Chilham stations. There had been a report of a cow on the railway an hour earlier, but a subsequent examination by the driver of the next passing train did not find anything. There were no further reports from other trains that passed before the accident occurred.

exbrel · 21 Mar 2024

a few years ago on Virgin, i think lightning knocked signals out, the TM announced free phone calls as long as the phone cards in the shop lasted, seemed to work well...

The Planner · 21 Mar 2024

Joseph T said:
How would hitting a cow justify 5 hours delay!? At the very worst I'd guess it would only take up 1 hours delay!

So you need to find a vet if the cow is still alive, you also have to find a way to move a 500kg animal and dispose of it for a start. If that is in the middle of nowhere, how is that taking just an hour?

uglymonkey · 21 Mar 2024

Also a Pacer is the worse train for "build" quality in hitting anything of all the stock around at that time, very flimsy.

glasgowniteowl · 21 Mar 2024

I think every situation has the potential to be different and very hard to have a set policy, depending on how the train is crewed will affect things, whether the train was involved in the incident or just delayed by it will affect what the driver/guard etc will be doing for passengers

I also think there is an almost unrealistic expectation sometimes on what can happen on the ground, a pendo can have a seated capacity of 600+ throw in an extra hundred standing it's over 700, I'm pretty sure they don't have a cupboard on board with 700 bottles of water one for everyone,

Depending on where a train is stranded is also going to have a big bearing on what facilities are possible, much rather be on a platform with toilets than middle of nowhere with failing toilets etc

There is lots and lots of factors that have many different possibilities depending on the situation

stuu · 21 Mar 2024

Joseph T said:
How would hitting a cow justify 5 hours delay!? At the very worst I'd guess it would only take up 1 hours delay!

I would suggest searching for Polmont rail crash if you think hitting a cow is trivial

ChiefPlanner · 21 Mar 2024

stuu said:
I would suggest searching for Polmont rail crash if you think hitting a cow is trivial

Glad that very serious accident caused by s trespassing cow has been raised.

D6130 · 21 Mar 2024

ChiefPlanner said:
Glad that very serious accident caused by s trespassing cow has been raised.

IIRC, the Polmont derailment was actually caused by a bull....ergo considerably bigger and heavier than a cow.

Mcr Warrior · 21 Mar 2024

D6130 said:
IIRC, the Polmont derailment was actually caused by a bull....ergo considerably bigger and heavier than a cow.

Have you got a source for that claim? The Department of Transport's Railway Accident Report published in February 1985 only seems to mention a cow.

D6130 · 21 Mar 2024

Mcr Warrior said:
Have you got a source for that assertion? The Department of Transport's Railway Accident Report published in February 1985 only seems to mention a cow.

No....that's why I used the initials 'IIRC'. However, I am fairly certain that contemporary press reports cited it as having been a bull. I shall look further into it and report back.

Mcr Warrior · 21 Mar 2024

D6130 said:
No....that's why I used the initials 'IIRC'. However, I am fairly certain that contemporary press reports cited it as having been a bull. I shall look further into it and report back.

So noted. Believe there was some uncertainty in the press, this immediately after the incident, as to whether the train had hit a cow, a young bullock or even a bull, as well as general incredulity that hitting this type of livestock could have caused such severe damage. Whatever it was (very possibly an adult Ayrshire) the poor creature was "severely mangled" with remains scattered over the stretch of track. And let's not forget that 13 passengers sadly lost their lives in the incident.

Deepgreen · 21 Mar 2024

dk1 said:
Yes there would be no difference. Everybody is in the same boat.

(Or train )

I think you'll find that the crew break out the emergency sedan chairs for first class passengers and those in standard have to carry them to the nearest station. Either that or all are treated the same, I can't remember which...

dk1 · 21 Mar 2024

Deepgreen said:
I think you'll find that the crew break out the emergency sedan chairs for first class passengers and those in standard have to carry them to the nearest station. Either that or all are treated the same, I can't remember which...

So funny

43066 · 21 Mar 2024

ChiefPlanner said:
Glad that very serious accident caused by s trespassing cow has been raised.

IIRC that was the accident that led to the adoption of “life guards”, ie large bits of metal being added to the front of unit-end wheel sets, to prevent derailment when hitting large objects or animals.

DunsBus · 22 Mar 2024

Wasn't it the Polmont crash which brought an end to the use of "pull-push" operation?

Looking after Passengers during severe service disruption.

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