HamworthyGoods
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Yes, and was a risk highlighted by GWR when conforming to DfT’s operating budget but as no further money was forthcoming GWR was left with very little choice.
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GWR fleet procurement
- Thread starter RPI
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Yes, and was a risk highlighted by GWR when conforming to DfT’s operating budget but as no further money was forthcoming GWR was left with very little choice.
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RailUK Forums
No doubt. But I maintain my position that using 175s to get out of the mess (if such a plen exists) is likely to be disruptive and costly. Time will tell.
HamworthyGoods
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HST half life power unit overhauls would be more costly. That is why the miles are being juggled very carefully on the remaining sets.
Snow1964
Established Member
175s (or 68s and mk5s) are the only quick solution. Training time only and if kept to dedicated route that is minimised.
It would be 9-12 months before any 150s are free from Wales, and nearer 14-20 months before 158s become available.
769s would also need training, (and risk won't work from day 1), and the other diesel options 221s and 222s are not likely and probably not available for 18+ months (depending on 805, 807, 810s in service).
I do agree to get out of mess you need a plan, and if it exists, it seems to be still stuck at the talking stage rather than anything happening.
HamworthyGoods
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If only it was that simple, coming up with a plan is one thing, getting funding for that from DfT is another thing… TOCs can’t just do things off their own backs anymore without DfT approval.
Why do so many people think quick fixes involve class 175’s or 68/mk5’s. Training driver/conductor’s is one thing (sometimes at the expense of running a service as they need releasing to do the training). But what about fitter training, depot driver training, driver/conductor manager training, crew trainer training? This is generally done before Traincrew training and all adds up and takes substantially longer.
If even as soon as that!
I agree but it can certainly be seen as the options that can be enacted the soonest. And the situation is pretty dire.
Perhaps, but too many people seem to think it’s a case of train up a few drivers and guards, add fuel and hey presto, problem solved.
Just to add that any fresh class of train will also need gauge clearing in all the routes they will be required to work on too, that isn’t a quick job either.
Oh absolutely. I was shocked when I joined the railway at actually how complex even seemingly ‘simple’ tasks actually are (and for very good reasons too usually).
Of course, I’ve seen how that goes with TFW of recent.
Personally in an ideal world, I think that TFW’s 158’s would be a tremendous addition with very little needing to be done (comparatively) to get the additional capacity that’s needed.
I suppose we will just have to wait and see what the final decision is !
Without throwing the thread off on a tangent, how did Scotrail get the 365s into traffic so quick? From what I recall they did a really efficient job? Is there any lessons that could be applied to any potential temporary GWR fleet if the DfT approved?
Don’t suppose the 180’s were cleared anywhere useful for deriving 175 clearances on GWR?
Unlikely to be cleared this far west, furthest they've been is Paignton.
HamworthyGoods
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Irrelevant now I’m afraid. NR doesn’t use likeness clearances these days each type of stock is individually route cleared.
180s used to run to Plymouth but as per other comment that doesn’t help with clearing other trains these days.
Snow1964
Established Member
The Governments letter today to manufacturers, vaguely includes GWR under other anticipated competitions. Described as .... initial market engagement on options ....
Snow1964
Established Member
All gone rather quiet, however the new ORR passenger figures show GWR is now busier under certain metrics than when they intended to bring in 769s five years ago
Although train km virtually unchanged at 99.5% of Oct-Dec 2019, average train length has been cut from 6.33 vehicles to 5.82 vehicles (now operating 91.5% of 2019 vehicle km) 64.063m vs 69.983m
Passenger journeys are 80.3% of 2019, but journeys are longer as passenger km is at 92.5% (1446m vs 1563m)
So passenger km vs vehicle km has gone up (ie now busier than when they intended to introduce 769s, and before some of Castle HST fleet was offloaded). The DfT obviously gets this info but so far has failed to sanction any extra stock. Anyone else find it odd that they know it is busier but nothing (apart from talk) is actually happening.
Although train km virtually unchanged at 99.5% of Oct-Dec 2019, average train length has been cut from 6.33 vehicles to 5.82 vehicles (now operating 91.5% of 2019 vehicle km) 64.063m vs 69.983m
Passenger journeys are 80.3% of 2019, but journeys are longer as passenger km is at 92.5% (1446m vs 1563m)
So passenger km vs vehicle km has gone up (ie now busier than when they intended to introduce 769s, and before some of Castle HST fleet was offloaded). The DfT obviously gets this info but so far has failed to sanction any extra stock. Anyone else find it odd that they know it is busier but nothing (apart from talk) is actually happening.
Not really. Are decisions made solely on passenger numbers? It isn't as if there is some rolling stock that can instantly be introduced.
The DfT only has so much it can spend on operation subsidy, if it isn't given any extra by the Treasury there isn't much it can do.
Anyway total passenger numbers (or even passenger kms) alone aren’t that much use. They could in theory double without there being any extra requirement for rolling stock (although it is highly unlikely that all growth would ever come on previously lightly-loaded services)
If we’re talking about the government/DfT, then that’s a hard ‘No’!
The frankly appalling decisions regarding Crosscountry’s fleet (removal of HSTs without replacement, followed by failure to allocate the blindlingly obviously needed full surplus 22x fleet here when they become available, at a TOC who have routinely suffered severe overcrowding on a daily basis for a generation now), demonstrate that those in power have precious little interest in overcrowding. The railway costs lots in subsidy, they crow, so there is no funding to make rolling stock vaguely sufficient to meet demand. We await a change of policy with baited breath; in the meantime it appears to be up to TOC management to either find creative ways of solving the problems at very little cost (as GWR’s leadership will doubtless try very hard to do), or sit back and accept their fate (as XC’s have little choice but to do).
Snow1964
Established Member
Hitachi have issued press release on their hybrid train, it is a 160km/h (100mph), battery, electric, hybrid, diesel designed for longer duration services
Entering service in Southern Italy in the summer.
I am guessing if they can make a 3kv dc version then they could also build a 750v dc and 25kv ac version and fit it in a UK size bodyshell for GWR services to Portsmouth and Weymouth if required.
Hitachi Rail unveils long-distance version of Europe’s first battery train
Hitachi Rail has unveiled its first long-distance hybrid battery train which will help to cut carbon emissions by 83% when it enters service later this year.
That's more for their Italian market, a train for the UK would likely be very different.Hitachi have issued press release on their hybrid train, it is a 160km/h (100mph), battery, electric, hybrid, diesel designed for longer duration services
Entering service in Southern Italy in the summer.
I am guessing if they can make a 3kv dc version then they could also build a 750v dc and 25kv ac version and fit it in a UK size bodyshell for GWR services to Portsmouth and Weymouth if required.
Hitachi Rail unveils long-distance version of Europe’s first battery train
Hitachi Rail has unveiled its first long-distance hybrid battery train which will help to cut carbon emissions by 83% when it enters service later this year.www.mynewsdesk.com
Sounds like an awful lot of stuff to squeeze into a UK size bodyshell!Hitachi have issued press release on their hybrid train, it is a 160km/h (100mph), battery, electric, hybrid, diesel designed for longer duration services
Entering service in Southern Italy in the summer.
I am guessing if they can make a 3kv dc version then they could also build a 750v dc and 25kv ac version and fit it in a UK size bodyshell for GWR services to Portsmouth and Weymouth if required.
Hitachi Rail unveils long-distance version of Europe’s first battery train
Hitachi Rail has unveiled its first long-distance hybrid battery train which will help to cut carbon emissions by 83% when it enters service later this year.
HamworthyGoods
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Indeed this is a huge flaw in the OP’s idea. The GB loading gauge is so much smaller, yes you can fit all these things in but it leaves you with a lot less passenger carrying capacity.
What’s Hitachi’s performance in the Italian market like, do we know? Are they well regarded over there?Hitachi have issued press release on their hybrid train, it is a 160km/h (100mph), battery, electric, hybrid, diesel designed for longer duration services
Entering service in Southern Italy in the summer.
I am guessing if they can make a 3kv dc version then they could also build a 750v dc and 25kv ac version and fit it in a UK size bodyshell for GWR services to Portsmouth and Weymouth if required.
Hitachi Rail unveils long-distance version of Europe’s first battery train
Hitachi Rail has unveiled its first long-distance hybrid battery train which will help to cut carbon emissions by 83% when it enters service later this year.
Hitachi bought AnsaldoBreda in 2015, so it is essentially Hitachi Rail Italy in this instance with Italian roots going back to the 19th century. A bit like saying that Alstom Derby is a homegrown UK manufacturer.
Realistically if we're applying the spec that the train mentioned is designed for it would have to be dramatically changed to fit GWR's requirements. Firstly I think it's been assumed that GWR is looking for a single design spec which could replace all of their DMU's but with 2 different layout config's. The Hitachi train question is spec'd for intercity which you could argue would fit reasonably well with GWR's regional fleet aspirations but when you start having to incorporate Battery, diesel gens, 2 electrical power pickup systems you would lose passenger capacity on a UK loading gauge, to the point where it's probably more feasible to design a separate train from the ground up to fit GWR's needs. I think we'll most likely see something similar to what Northern get when they choose their tender, maybe even the same manufacturer for GWR?Hitachi have issued press release on their hybrid train, it is a 160km/h (100mph), battery, electric, hybrid, diesel designed for longer duration services
Entering service in Southern Italy in the summer.
I am guessing if they can make a 3kv dc version then they could also build a 750v dc and 25kv ac version and fit it in a UK size bodyshell for GWR services to Portsmouth and Weymouth if required.
Hitachi Rail unveils long-distance version of Europe’s first battery train
Hitachi Rail has unveiled its first long-distance hybrid battery train which will help to cut carbon emissions by 83% when it enters service later this year.
Snow1964
Established Member
GWR have issued a pre-tender market engagement notice for fleet for its medium term fleet strategy
bidstats.uk
Pre-Tender Market Engagement Notice - Great Western Railway Medium Term Fleet Strategy [PIN]
This notice is published by the Great Western Railway (GWR). This notice is published to advertise a... A Utilities Periodic Indicative Notice by First Greater Western.
This presumably relates to the requirement to “plug the gap” before anything under Project Churchward kicks in. What timescale does “medium term” mean on the railway?GWR have issued a pre-tender market engagement notice for fleet for its medium term fleet strategy
Pre-Tender Market Engagement Notice - Great Western Railway Medium Term Fleet Strategy [PIN]
This notice is published by the Great Western Railway (GWR). This notice is published to advertise a... A Utilities Periodic Indicative Notice by First Greater Western.
Bringback309s
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Clicking "register your interest" brings up:
| Great Western Railway (GWR) is seeking expressions of interest from suppliers for provision of existing fleets of between 10 and 120 Diesel Multiple Unit Vehicles (DMUs) in 2 or 3 car formations to supplement current services across the GWR network. These should be able to operate at the current sectional running times (SRTs), with similar seated and crush laden capacity to be introduced in increments up to and including the December 2027 timetable date , from the contract award date to the 29th May 2028. |