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TRIVIA: Examples of train refurbishments (past or present) that were a step up from the same train's previous interior

AY1975

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Following on from last year's thread at https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...ere-a-step-up-from-their-predecessors.236097/ on examples of rolling stock that were a step up from their predecessors, I thought how about a similar thread on examples of train refurbishment or facelift/refresh schemes (past or present) that you think were a step up from the previous interiors of the same trains.

This can include examples from the national rail network, either from the BR era or post-privatisation, from any other UK rail networks such as the London Underground, or from abroad.

For a start I would say that GNER's Mallard Mark 4 refurbishment was a step up from the original Mark 4 interiors, especially in Standard Class. Likewise with Avanti West Coast's current Pendolino refurbishment programme.

On Virgin West Coast in pre-Pendolino days, the refurbished First Class saloons on their Mark 2F and Mark 3 Open Firsts were nicer than those of the 1980s BR Intercity refurbishment. I especially liked the VWC Mark 2F FOs with their more subdued lighting than under BR.

Some of VWC's Mark 3s then went to "One"/Greater Anglia and got one last refurbishment, which was OK but in First Class I preferred the VWC refurbishment to that of Greater Anglia as the seats no longer reclined after the GA refurbishment.

When the Mark 2Fs and Mark 3s (including the HSTs) had their first refurbishment under BR in the mid to late '80s they initially kept their original headrests and seating layouts but in due course they got thinner headrests in both classes and more unidirectional seating in Standard Class. I thought the 1980s interiors were an improvement on their original as-built interiors in terms of the colours used but I preferred their original headrests (and the original seating layout in Standard Class).

On the London Underground I would say that the C69/C77 Stock, Bakerloo Line 1972 Stock, Piccadilly Line 1973 Stock and the now withdrawn Victoria Line 1967 Stock was better after refurbishment. In all of these cases they had brighter interiors than before, and the C Stock had (and the 1973 Stock still has) windows next to the end emergency doors in each car so you can see all through the train, which is better for passenger security. Changing to all longitudinal seating on the C Stock and 1973 Stock may have been somewhat controversial (indeed the C Stock originally had all facing bays except at the ends of the cars) though it didn't bother me particularly. The 1967 and 1972 Stock kept some facing bays after refurbishment, though.
 
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Helvellyn

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Three small schemes from the 1980s:
  • Mark 1 Motorail rake - a number of FKs were refurbished for the Euston-Stirling Motorail service. All the original seating was retained but fully reupholstered in InterCity First Class dusk pink moquette, seat cushions refilled and carpets throughout. I remember being on a charter in the mid-1980s that used the stock and it was very pleasant. The quality of the refurbishment was such that two vehicles even gained Regional Railways livery in the early 1990s and were used in the North West.
  • Mark 1 prototype refurbishment rake - Largely TSOs refurbished again with new moquette, refilled seats but also new laminated panels, metal interior window frames and fully refurbished toilets. Intended as a trial for a wider refurbishment scheme it never went any further. Two BSKs were also refurbished plus one SK (18753) - the latter had some experimental seats installed. The stock was used initially on the Midland Mainline for commuter services to supplement the HSTs, but later ended up as part of the charter fleet.
  • Mark 2 West Anglia refurbishment - possibly more controversial NSE refurbished the Mark 2 TSOs/BSOs used on the Liverpool Street - Cambridge services with new IC80 seating (as used in the APT and later the Mark 2D/2F FO to TSO conversions) in the original layout (i.e. all around tables), new panels and Edward Pond murals on the saloon ends. After loco-hauled services ended on the West Anglia route they were cascaded to Thames Valley commuter services, then some ended up with ScotRail. Three Mark 1 RMBs were also refurbished but retained their original seats (albeit reupholstered). They also got Edward Pond murals.

There's a picture of RMB 1842 here after cascade to CrossCountry where it gained the "red dogger" moquette and carpets but kept the Edward Pond murals.
There's a picture of a TSO here with the IC80 seating in NSE "blue blaze" moquette and the Edward Pond murals visible.
 

Rescars

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When the full height seat backs appeared in the Connex/Southern 455s, it meant commuters could doze off in comfort after a hard day in the office!
 

32475

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Two examples which spring to mind are the Southern Region 4-CEP EMU refurbishments in the mid 1980s and the InterCity Mk3s for the rebranded Manchester Pullman services a few years later (also the Liverpool Pullman if I remember correctly?)
 

Magdalia

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Mark 2 West Anglia refurbishment - possibly more controversial NSE refurbished the Mark 2 TSOs/BSOs used on the Liverpool Street - Cambridge services with new IC80 seating (as used in the APT and later the Mark 2D/2F FO to TSO conversions) in the original layout (i.e. all around tables), new panels and Edward Pond murals on the saloon ends.
I used these both before and after, the NSE refurbish was definitely a step backwards.

When the full height seat backs appeared in the Connex/Southern 455s, it meant commuters could doze off in comfort after a hard day in the office!
In particular, the original MarkII seats were the best ever for a doze in comfort.

A radical refurbish, that I regard as a success, was the South West Trains class 455s. But I'd be interested in the views of people who used them for commuting not just occasional journeys.
 

AndrewP

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GNER Mallard was a big improvement (apart from the 'auto reclining' first class seats)

I liked the Late 1980s / 90s intercity refurbs

SWT 455s - felt like a new train

The 1990s tube refurbs with the C and 73 stock in particular being transformative
 

Western 52

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Whilst TfW are often criticised for poor performance, some of their DMUs have had decent refurbishment work. The 158s are nicer and more comfortable that those with some other operators, and their 150s are certainly better than those with Northern! They also did a great job on the 175s, only to withdraw them soon afterwards....
 

Helvellyn

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Two examples which spring to mind are the Southern Region 4-CEP EMU refurbishments in the mid 1980s and the InterCity Mk3s for the rebranded Manchester Pullman services a few years later (also the Liverpool Pullman if I remember correctly?)
The Mark 3s (3Bs) were new build for the relaunched Pullmans for First Class, with IC80 and a brown interior.
 

32475

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The Mark 3s (3Bs) were new build for the relaunched Pullmans for First Class, with IC80 and a brown interior.
Thanks for correcting me on that Helvellyn. I travelled on them with my Priv Pass a few times; they were really plush and very comfortable
 

norbitonflyer

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When the full height seat backs appeared in the Connex/Southern 455s, it meant commuters could doze off in comfort after a hard day in the office!
Horrible and claustrophobic. SWR's garish moquette. Seat pitch too close for anyone above average height (50% of the population!) to sit comfortably unless they were in an ailse seat and could sit at an angle with their legs in the gangway. (I'm 5'9" and can't use the window seats)
And despite the reduction in seating capacity the 2+2 seating did not leave enough space in the gangways for people to stabnd two-abreast, so there was no significant increase in standing capacity - certainly not enough to make up for the missing seats. And the old low-back seats were cleverly designed with perches fashioned into the ends nearest the gangway for the standees to use - no such chance with the new ones.
 

greyman42

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When the Mark 2Fs and Mark 3s (including the HSTs) had their first refurbishment under BR in the mid to late '80s they initially kept their original headrests and seating layouts but in due course they got thinner headrests in both classes and more unidirectional seating in Standard Class. I thought the 1980s interiors were an improvement on their original as-built interiors in terms of the colours used but I preferred their original headrests (and the original seating layout in Standard Class).
I worked on the Mark 2Fs refurbishment at BREL York and the refurbishment was excellent. Standard class in particular was a real step up with carpets replacing lino and interior power doors in the vestibules replacing the old ones that had to opened by hand. The overall interior ambience felt more like first class.
 

Helvellyn

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Thanks for correcting me on that Helvellyn. I travelled on them with my Priv Pass a few times; they were really plush and very comfortable
I think the original plan was to refurbish the HST trailers and Mark 3A vehicles with these seats. Two HST sets and 1 Mark 3A FO got them as a trial but regained IC70 seats when they visited works as part of the squadron refurbishment. I preferred the IC80 to the IC70 seat.
 

dastocks

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The class 319 refurbishments that Connex did for Brighton express services was a massive improvement on the original version.
 

Snow1964

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Is the refurbishment of the mk1 hauled stock that became 4TCs and the middle vehicles of 4REPs allowed, or is that a rebuild/conversion rather than a refurbishment

I want also include any mk1 that got commonwealth bogies over the original rough riding BR mk1 bogies as ride was transformed
 

AY1975

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Is the refurbishment of the mk1 hauled stock that became 4TCs and the middle vehicles of 4REPs allowed, or is that a rebuild/conversion rather than a refurbishment

I want also include any mk1 that got commonwealth bogies over the original rough riding BR mk1 bogies as ride was transformed
Yes, I'd say that was a rebuild rather than a refurbishment, although I suppose you could say it was both. It involved rebuilding loco-hauled coaches into EMUs in the case of the REPs, although the REP driving cars were new-build vehicles, while in the case of the 4-TCs all vehicles were loco-hauled Mark 1s rebuilt into unpowered trailer units. The former loco-hauled coaches were also refurbished to a spec similar to the Phase 2 CIGs but with a few subtle differences, though (and the REP and TC seats were considered by many to be more comfortable than the Phase 2 CIG seats).

At least one REP or TC unit had a further refurbishment or facelift, and got early Mark 2 style seats and fluorescent lighting in the two driving cars.
Three small schemes from the 1980s:
  • Mark 1 Motorail rake - a number of FKs were refurbished for the Euston-Stirling Motorail service. All the original seating was retained but fully reupholstered in InterCity First Class dusk pink moquette, seat cushions refilled and carpets throughout. I remember being on a charter in the mid-1980s that used the stock and it was very pleasant. The quality of the refurbishment was such that two vehicles even gained Regional Railways livery in the early 1990s and were used in the North West.
Yes, I seem to recall that at least one of those FKs were often to be found on the summer Saturday Birmingham-Pwllheli loco-hauleds in the early 90s. I think those trains may have been officially Standard Class only once they no longer ran through to/from Euston, in which case passengers no doubt relished their luxurious ambience.

I think at least one or two of them ended up as part of the Scottish Railway Preservation Society charter train pool. I travelled on one of them that was part of a visiting SRPS rake at the North Yorkshire Moors Railway diesel gala in about 2005 or 2006.
  • Mark 1 prototype refurbishment rake - Largely TSOs refurbished again with new moquette, refilled seats but also new laminated panels, metal interior window frames and fully refurbished toilets. Intended as a trial for a wider refurbishment scheme it never went any further. Two BSKs were also refurbished plus one SK (18753) - the latter had some experimental seats installed. The stock was used initially on the Midland Mainline for commuter services to supplement the , but later ended up as part of the charter fleet.
I believe that one compartment of SK 18753 had 4-a-side seating designed for a never realised wider refurbishment scheme for the London & South-East (later Network SouthEast) sector while the other seven compartments got 3-a-side seating. I would guess that that scheme may have been done with a view to refurbishing more Mark 1s so that they could remain in service well into the 1990s for use on secondary long-distance services that ended up getting Sprinterised instead.

But although that scheme was never progressed any further, a lot of Mark 1 side corridor coaches got a much lesser refurbishment (more of a facelift than a full refurbishment) in the 1980s. This involved fitting fluorescent lighting in the compartments and toilets, fitting wide mirrors and removing the blinds and reading lamps in Standard Class, and replacing the loco-hauled Mark 1 style reading lamps with VEP/Phase 2 CIG style reading lamps in First Class. Some First Class coaches also got wide mirrors and lost their reading lamps, though (the Gloucestershire Warwickshire Railway has a FK with wide mirrors and without reading lamps). Some of those coaches also got early Network SouthEast era striped upholstery.

And another small scheme from the 1980s, involving just one unit: Class 205 DEMU 1111 (latterly numbered 205 205). This involved fitting lowered ceilings with fluorescent lighting, gangways within the unit, and replacing the original seats with what I believe were seats from a withdrawn 4-SUB unit (albeit minus their overhead luggage racks: instead they fitted luggage racks above the windows). Fitting gangways meant that everyone had access to the toilets, and was also useful for revenue protection particularly on the Hastings-Ashford "Marshlink" line which has several unstaffed halts. The First Class compartments were also removed and opened out, as the Marshlink line was Second Class only at that time. 205 205 now resides at the Epping Ongar Railway.

In fact, I suppose you could say any scheme that involved fitting gangways to previously non-gangwayed units was a step up, both because it meant everyone could reach the toilet (if there was one) and for passenger security and revenue protection, e.g. the Class 302 and 308 EMUs and Class 117 and 118 DMUs (plus some 115s and 116s).

As with the Mark 1 refurbishment mentioned above, I would guess that 1111/205 205 was done with a view to extending the scheme to more of the DEMU fleet but it was never progressed any further at least with the 205s. In the 1990s a few 207s were similarly refurbished, though, or at least their driving cars were. They initially ran as gangwayed 2-car units and later had an ex-CEP Trailer Standard added.

Two schemes from the 1970s are perhaps also worth a mention: the prototype refurbished Class 101 DMU, which I believe got air-conditioned Mark 2 style lowered ceilings throughout (no aircon, though) and IC70 seats in First Class, and the Mark 1 sleeping car refurbishment which was discussed in this now locked thread from 2021: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/mark-1-sleeping-car-refurbishment.225374/
 

RPI

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When Wessex Trains refurbished the 150's they were a huge step up, adding tables and 2+2 seating.
 

12C

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I find the ambience of TPE class 185s much more pleasant after their refurb circa 2016, although they are starting to show their age again now.

A controversial one, but (at 6’2”) I find the new ‘ironing board’ seats on refurbished Northern 158s far more comfortable than the old thick cushioned ones, the legroom is much better. Plus charging points, WiFi, and PIS screens are a definite improvement. Similarly the East Midlands Trains 158 refurb with the higher backed seating felt a big improvement on the old BR interior.

The Avanti Pendolino refurb I feel is a step up, it looks more professional and less ‘tacky’ than the garish Virgin interior. I like the slightly winged seats too.
 

Mcr Warrior

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The Avanti Pendolino refurb I feel is a step up, it looks more professional and less ‘tacky’ than the garish Virgin interior.
I'd also go along with that.

On the heritage railway scene, the LYR 47 "Blackpool Club Carriage", built in 1912, and now back in occasional use on the Keighley and Worth Valley Railway, with its sumptous real leather seating and handcrafted interior, is a significant step up from its previous incarnation as a works team's cricket pavilion in Borrowash in Derbyshire.
 

Blindtraveler

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The 25 CL 158s that were at the time allocated to Inverness and got a very heavy refurbishment in first ScotRail days were absolutely brilliant and remain so to this day, not least because the horrible Richmond seating was disposed of and these same seats were reupholstered in the later fleet wide refresh, now the one five eight fleet in Scotland is regarded as one pool these are far more free ranging and it's always nice when one turns up on your service, but equally it's pretty horrible when a formerly Haymarket allocated Richmond fitted example with its permanently collapsed seat bases despite refurbishment appears on a working of over three hours and you wonder if you should have planned alternatively instead


Oh and I liked every aspect of what National Express Scott Rail did to the mk2 seated coaches introduced on the sleeper, the one exception being the strange heating and air conditioning system which I am told was not as built and never worked, perhaps someone can shed light on this a bit more
 

Taunton

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In the 1980s many Great Eastern outer suburban EMUs out of Liverpool Street were substantially redone, all the old style non-corridor compartments ripped out and completely rebuilt inside, fluorescent lights, new purple-upholstered seats, even substantial draughtproofing to the seating bay doors. A number of passengers thought they were new trains.
 
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Valley Lines franchise in the 90s did a decent refurb job on their Pacers replacing the seats etc.

WAGN class 317/6
 

Rescars

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At some point (in the early 1970s?), the RBs were refurbished as RBRs. I believe this included fitting flourescent lighting, better security shutters for the buffet and installing fibreglass bucket seats in lurid colours of unbelievable discomfort! There may have been some changes made to the layout of the kitchen and service pantry as well. Others will know if any changes were made to the heating, bogies and brakes. However they started out, by the end of their lives I think all the RBRs were running on commonwealth bogies and were dual heated and dual braked.
 

stadler

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In my opinion the SWT 455/456 refurbishment was the best refurbishment ever done. They made them seem like brand new trains. Normally when trains are refurbished you can tell that it is just an old train that has been refurbished. But with the SWT 455/456 many non enthusiast passengers genuinely thought that they were brand new trains. They were hugely improved.
 

TrainBoy98

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In my opinion the SWT 455/456 refurbishment was the best refurbishment ever done. They made them seem like brand new trains. Normally when trains are refurbished you can tell that it is just an old train that has been refurbished. But with the SWT 455/456 many non enthusiast passengers genuinely thought that they were brand new trains. They were hugely improved.
Have to agree here, the 455 refurb was excellent - my other half didn't believe me when I told her they were 40 years old!
 
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Horrible and claustrophobic. SWR's garish moquette. Seat pitch too close for anyone above average height (50% of the population!) to sit comfortably unless they were in an ailse seat and could sit at an angle with their legs in the gangway. (I'm 5'9" and can't use the window seats)
And despite the reduction in seating capacity the 2+2 seating did not leave enough space in the gangways for people to stabnd two-abreast, so there was no significant increase in standing capacity - certainly not enough to make up for the missing seats. And the old low-back seats were cleverly designed with perches fashioned into the ends nearest the gangway for the standees to use - no such chance with the new ones.
I think that may be 50% of the male population not the population…
 

61653 HTAFC

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I have to take issue with those upthread slagging the original 158 seats. I'm always pleased when a 3-car unit shows up on Northern rather than a pair of 2-cars (those two being the most common formations on my regular route). If they're left to get trashed and not repaired they aren't great as the seat bases will be loose, but if they're well looked after they're very comfortable... in my opinion of course!

When Northern Spirit initially gave the TP 158s their first heavy refresh, they added extra padding to the original seats to make them extra luxurious (on the rare occasions they weren't full and standing), something which survived on some of the MS vehicles until the most recent Arriva North refurbishment.

Now if there was a thread on the worst refurbishment, it's a toss up for me between the Merseyrail Pacers (though "downgrading" a Pacer is quite the achievement, I suppose...) or the last refurb the 365s got before being stored- which turned a great express commuter EMU into a glorified Megabus.
 

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