Joseph T
Member
Hou come most EMUs in Scotland are 3-coach sets, e.g. the 318 and 320? What specific requirements are they meeting?
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Scotrail 3-coach EMUs
- Thread starter Joseph T
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RailUK Forums
3-car EMUs in Scotland go right back to the late 1950s. Many of the platforms are around 120m long.
Joseph T
Member
And I assume the average coach length is 20 metres based on that? And how come most platforms are of this length anyways? Is it coincidental or to do with regulations or some common practice among Scottish rail engineers back in the day?
norbitonflyer
Established Member
Nothing unusual about three car sets. Outside Scotland, many units were/are 3 car.
Eastger Region Classes 305 (some), 306, 308 (some), and 313.
LMR Classes 323, 501, 502, 503, 505, 506, 507, and 508.
Commonest length of 1st generation DMU (c 750, compared with 500 twins and 100 quads).
All Southern DEMUs were either 3 or 6 car.
Many stations have platforms that can only take six cars - so one four car unit would not make full use of the available length, and two would be too long to fit.
Strathclyder
Established Member
Platform lengths dating back to at least the 50s/60s, when the 303s were brand new. The steam locos and coaches the 303s directly replaced were often arranged into rakes that came within the length of two 303s working in multiple, thus the platform lengths were largely left alone. Subsequent Strathclyde EMU orders, from the 311s, through the 314s, 318s and 320s to the 334s have all been 3 coaches for this reason; the 380/1s were the first to break with that tradition.
Most of the Strathclyde network's intermediate stations, but particularly the core underground sections of the North Clyde & Argyle Lines running through Glasgow City Centre, would be prohibitively expensive to upgrade/rebuild to enable them to handle 7-8 coach trains. Argyle Street is a standout example of this sort of problem generally, as it's bounded by the foundations of buildings either side of the street above, which accounts for the narrow island platform there compared to Anderston & Glasgow Central Low Level.
At least two of my local stations on the western sections of both lines (Singer and Drumchapel) and more than a few others have disused sections of platform that theorectially could be brought back into use to enable longer trains to call, but given how long they've been out of use, you'd likely be better off just ripping those sections out and starting over fresh.
As things stand presently, the stations that can, have or could take a 7+ coach EMU - aside from Glasgow Central & Queen Street High Levels ofc - include Helensburgh Central, Dumbarton Central, Dalmuir (platforms 1 & 2 only), Motherwell (both the WCML and Hamilton Loop platforms), Paisley Gilmour St, Ayr (in pre-hotel fire times at least) & Gourock.
As far as I know, there are no plans for platform extensions for any of the relevent stations at least in the short/medium term, unless I've somehow missed them being proposed by Transport Scotland, ScotRail or Network Rail.
Most of the Strathclyde network's intermediate stations, but particularly the core underground sections of the North Clyde & Argyle Lines running through Glasgow City Centre, would be prohibitively expensive to upgrade/rebuild to enable them to handle 7-8 coach trains. Argyle Street is a standout example of this sort of problem generally, as it's bounded by the foundations of buildings either side of the street above, which accounts for the narrow island platform there compared to Anderston & Glasgow Central Low Level.
At least two of my local stations on the western sections of both lines (Singer and Drumchapel) and more than a few others have disused sections of platform that theorectially could be brought back into use to enable longer trains to call, but given how long they've been out of use, you'd likely be better off just ripping those sections out and starting over fresh.
As things stand presently, the stations that can, have or could take a 7+ coach EMU - aside from Glasgow Central & Queen Street High Levels ofc - include Helensburgh Central, Dumbarton Central, Dalmuir (platforms 1 & 2 only), Motherwell (both the WCML and Hamilton Loop platforms), Paisley Gilmour St, Ayr (in pre-hotel fire times at least) & Gourock.
As far as I know, there are no plans for platform extensions for any of the relevent stations at least in the short/medium term, unless I've somehow missed them being proposed by Transport Scotland, ScotRail or Network Rail.
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Falcon1200
Established Member
3-car sets are adequate for the traffic on many routes, and can be, have been, and still are, coupled to form longer formations at busy times.
Whilst platforms 3 and 4 at Ayr, when open, can (and have) take 8 cars, the signalling only really supports 7. To turn back an 8 involves running past the platform end signal.
I am reliably informed that this was one of the reasons for 380s having 3 and 4 car subclasses and Clyde coast running 3, 4 or 7 car trains.
7 cars fit in most but not all Clyde Coast station platforms.
I am reliably informed that this was one of the reasons for 380s having 3 and 4 car subclasses and Clyde coast running 3, 4 or 7 car trains.
7 cars fit in most but not all Clyde Coast station platforms.
Cheshire Scot
Established Member
Not sure if they may have been shortened in recent years but Queen St Low Level used to be able to take loco hauled formations of at least 11 Mk1 coaches.
What are now platforms 1,2,3 at Helensburgh Central (formerly P 2,3,4) all used to regularly stable 9 emu vehicles - maybe still do.
Strathclyder
Established Member
Admittedly, the main reason Helensburgh Central leapt out at me in this regard was due to the Class 303 farewell run from Bellgrove. When it terminated at Platform 1, a 334 was already stabled on the same platform. Even allowing for a bit of space between them, all 3 units could just about fit. A hypothetical 9-car 334 formation could fit I think.
Yep, forgot to add this. 3 cars are enough for the normal traffic levels on most routes and are often upped to 6 during the peak periods or are mostly 6 car sets all day.
Did suspect this was the case, but wasn't 100% sure.
Cheshire Scot
Established Member
And benefit from class 380s being ASDO fitted at shorter platforms.
Dfatcontroller
Member
Helensburgh platforms 1 & 2 can take 9-cars. Platform 3 is limited to 6.
Cheshire Scot
Established Member
Fair enough, thanks for current info. It certainly used to take 9, I'm guessing perhaps the signal is further back than it was before the 1980s re-signalling? And/or standback from the buffers has been increased.