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First South West (Kernow & Buses of Somerset)

Goldfish62

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The Lands End Coaster and Atlantic Coaster are actually every 105 minutes low season and every 75 minutes mid season, which makes them both more frequent but also, to most, less likely to have the times memorised.:smile:
Only the Atlantic Coaster. Lands End is every 120 low/90 mid.

Given the loadings out of Penzance mid-morning towards to Lands End in April/May last year I think there are going to be capacity problems.

Am I mistaken but the U4 no longer serving Long Rock ?
It appears to be an error (fortunately!). If you look at the timetable on Traveline and expand to show all stops Long Rock is served on all journeys in both directions.

Strange also that Newlyn Bridge has been omitted as a timing point on the Mousehole when it's the busiest stop in Newlyn.
 
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richw

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It appears to be an error (fortunately!). If you look at the timetable on Traveline and expand to show all stops Long Rock is served on all journeys in both directions.

Strange also that Newlyn Bridge has been omitted as a timing point on the Mousehole when it's the busiest stop in Newlyn.
Reduction in timing points close to other timing points is being done across First.

Another is The new 29 has lost London apprentice, Tregorrick and south street as timing points compared to the 24 between st Austell and mevagissey.

Only timing points st Austell bus station, pentewan, mevagissey and Heligan.

Stagecoach are removing timing points close to other timing points too,

Wonder if it’s an optibus thing as both use optibus
 

Goldfish62

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Reduction in timing points close to other timing points is being done across First.

Another is The new 29 has lost London apprentice, Tregorrick and south street as timing points compared to the 24 between st Austell and mevagissey.

Only timing points st Austell bus station, pentewan, mevagissey and Heligan.

Stagecoach are removing timing points close to other timing points too,

Wonder if it’s an optibus thing as both use optibus
All very unhelpful.
 

Goldfish62

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I disagree. Some routes have far too many, it can speed up routes removing them within reason. They’re not needed every 3-4 minutes or less
How does it speed up routes?! Buses will still take the same time to travel from A to B! All that it does is provide less information to intending passengers.

I stand by my view that removing the key pair of stops in Newlyn from the public timetable of the most frequent route that serves Newlyn is wrong, especially when it remains as a timing point for the Land's End Coaster and 5/5A.
 

Busaholic

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How does it speed up routes?! Buses will still take the same time to travel from A to B! All that it does is provide less information to intending passengers.

I stand by my view that removing the key pair of stops in Newlyn from the public timetable of the most frequent route that serves Newlyn is wrong, especially when it remains as a timing point for the Land's End Coaster and 5/5A.
I totally agree. The 5 timetable showing Newlyn Bridge when it's Penzance bound is misleading anyway, if you were to be standing at the latter stop and watch it disappear down Newlyn Coombe!

Is the Cat going to be operated by a double decker?

Talking of timing points, Hayle, LLoyds Bank on a schoolday 15 journey might require some memory jogging, as it unfortunately closed some years ago weeks after the Barclays on the opposite corner. Used to use it regularly when going to St Michael's Hospital.
 
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Goldfish62

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At quiet times it provides less waiting time which many customers complain about.
If buses are leaving early from intermediate timing points then running times need looking at.

I totally agree. The 5 timetable showing Newlyn Bridge when it's Penzance bound is misleading anyway, if you were to be standing at the latter stop and watch it disappear down Newlyn Coombe!
There is actually a stop for the 5 at Newlyn Bridge. It's in the Coombe outside Stones taxis, complete with flag and timetable.

The stop specific timetable at the main stop correctly doesn't show the times for the 5.
 
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co-tr-paul

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It appears to be an error (fortunately!). If you look at the timetable on Traveline and expand to show all stops Long Rock is served on all journeys in


PHEW !! Thanks .
 

richw

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If buses are leaving early from intermediate timing points then running times need looking at.
Not leaving, but arriving and sitting there.

Take for example,
a to b average run 4 mins 30- timed 5 mins
B to c average 4 mins 20 - timed 5mins
C to D average 3 mins 10 - timing 4 mins.
Total A to D 14 mins

But lose B and C as timing points

A to D running time is 12 mins.

Therefore 2 mins quicker A to D. Over the course of a longer route there can be considerable timing savings. Passengers don’t like the waiting time at each point.
 

Goldfish62

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Not leaving, but arriving and sitting there.

Take for example,
a to b average run 4 mins 30- timed 5 mins
B to c average 4 mins 20 - timed 5mins
C to D average 3 mins 10 - timing 4 mins.
Total A to D 14 mins

But lose B and C as timing points

A to D running time is 12 mins.

Therefore 2 mins quicker A to D. Over the course of a longer route there can be considerable timing savings. Passengers don’t like the waiting time at each point.
That simply indicates that the intermediate running times are too generous and should actually be 5+4+3.

Remember that times still need to be shown on the stop specific timetables at non-timing points.
 

Cesarcollie

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That simply indicates that the intermediate running times are too generous and should actually be 5+4+3.

Remember that times still need to be shown on the stop specific timetables at non-timing points.

I think you’re missing the point RichW is making. Various external factors (roadworks, traffic cnngedition etc) make running times variable and unpredictable. To try and achieve reliability bus operators have to set running times which are inevitably an average between the worst case scenario and the best case. But what buses cannot do is leave a timing point early. So you end up with an element of padding and therefore a chance of having to sit and wait time, between each pair of timing points. If you take timing points out, there is a greater likelihood of delays being clawed back by a section of route where everything runs well. So instead of (say) of one minute x 4 sections between timing points = 4 mins, you can manage with 2 minutes at the end of the complete section. For stops that aren’t timing points, customers can simply be advised that times are approximat, or given the earliest likely arrival time. Unfortunately the current TC rules on punctuality- which are largely unachievable On many services - mean operators have to manage the system as best they can.
 

Goldfish62

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I think you’re missing the point RichW is making. Various external factors (roadworks, traffic cnngedition etc) make running times variable and unpredictable. To try and achieve reliability bus operators have to set running times which are inevitably an average between the worst case scenario and the best case. But what buses cannot do is leave a timing point early. So you end up with an element of padding and therefore a chance of having to sit and wait time, between each pair of timing points. If you take timing points out, there is a greater likelihood of delays being clawed back by a section of route where everything runs well. So instead of (say) of one minute x 4 sections between timing points = 4 mins, you can manage with 2 minutes at the end of the complete section. For stops that aren’t timing points, customers can simply be advised that times are approximat, or given the earliest likely arrival time. Unfortunately the current TC rules on punctuality- which are largely unachievable On many services - mean operators have to manage the system as best they can.
Yes, I understand all that. I've written schedules myself in the past. My point is that it's not helpful removing timing points for some of the busiest stops, Newlyn Bridge being one of them. In any case the Bridge is not a stop where buses routinely arrive early and have to wait time. Usually they're a minute or two late.

But yes, the TC guidance is nonsense, always has been and even more so now. However, I do believe that the STC recognises the guidance needs overhauling, but I don't think anyone knows how as yet.
 

Andyh82

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Is the Cat going to be operated by a double decker?
Yes, I wonder if it will be advertised as such locally, such as on the branded shelters at Penzance Bus Station encouraging tourists who want more space and a top deck view, to wait for the Cat services.
 

Busaholic

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Yes, I understand all that. I've written schedules myself in the past. My point is that it's not helpful removing timing points for some of the busiest stops, Newlyn Bridge being one of them. In any case the Bridge is not a stop where buses routinely arrive early and have to wait time. Usually they're a minute or two late.

But yes, the TC guidance is nonsense, always has been and even more so now. However, I do believe that the STC recognises the guidance needs overhauling, but I don't think anyone knows how as yet.
The eastbound Bridge stop at least is most unsuited to having a bus sitting there for a second longer than needed because the road layout there produces traffic build-up in all directions, including huge artics from the Harbour.
 

Goldfish62

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The eastbound Bridge stop at least is most unsuited to having a bus sitting there for a second longer than needed because the road layout there produces traffic build-up in all directions, including huge artics from the Harbour.
I have never ever seen a bus sat at that stop unnecessarily. Never. They load up and pull away or drive past if no one is there or wants to alight.
 

embers25

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I've waited time there before for a couple of mins on an early running Coaster. It's very rare but does happen, though usually only if they leave the previous timing point early.
 

Goldfish62

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I've waited time there before for a couple of mins on an early running Coaster. It's very rare but does happen, though usually only if they leave the previous timing point early.
But no bus driver is going to sit there and allow the road to become blocked as a result.

In any case Newlyn Bridge remains as a timing point on the Land's End Coaster.
 

Busaholic

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I have never ever seen a bus sat at that stop unnecessarily. Never. They load up and pull away or drive past if no one is there or wants to alight.
I don't suppose I have either, except for a 1/A or a Coaster. My point, though, was that even if it is a timing point commonsense should prevail and the bus should depart as soon as all passengers are loaded. If a bus is that early (unlikely unless it's a Coaster) it should pause at the previous stop in cases such as this and drive slowly thereafter.
 

Cesarcollie

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Yes, I understand all that. I've written schedules myself in the past. My point is that it's not helpful removing timing points for some of the busiest stops, Newlyn Bridge being one of them. In any case the Bridge is not a stop where buses routinely arrive early and have to wait time. Usually they're a minute or two late.

But yes, the TC guidance is nonsense, always has been and even more so now. However, I do believe that the STC recognises the guidance needs overhauling, but I don't think anyone knows how as yet.

I think you’re right re the STC. Unfortunately it is a fairly long way down the list of priorities, with a shortage of staff in TC offices, and indeed with impending departures, a shortage of TC’s! And until the guidance is changed, DVSA BOAM officers (or at least some of them) will keep trying to enforce the impossible!
 

83G/84D

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According to Bustimes Sprinter 54111 has made its debut in service today.
Interesting, I wonder if the written off example will be replaced to enable the Solos to be withdrawn?
The ‘cat’ service will undoubtedly help with capacity issues especially if a big bus but it doesn’t run all year.
A fourth Sprinter would be useful given their reliability although it is better recently.
 

Goldfish62

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Interesting, I wonder if the written off example will be replaced to enable the Solos to be withdrawn?
The ‘cat’ service will undoubtedly help with capacity issues especially if a big bus but it doesn’t run all year.
A fourth Sprinter would be useful given their reliability although it is better recently.
I'm told by a normally reliable source that it's believed that 54113 is not written off (it's still taxed for a start) but is at Southampton being rebuilt.

And yes, a 4th Sprinter is needed. The PVR is 3 and the Solos need to go - they're on their last legs.

The Cat is only going to help once an hour.
 

richw

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I'm told by a normally reliable source that it's believed that 54113 is not written off (it's still taxed for a start) but is at Southampton being rebuilt.
It initially returned to the body builder I’m led to believe. they deemed it unviable and it was then moved elsewhere for second opinion.

If it’s in Southampton I assume that will be Qualiti conversions
 

Goldfish62

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It initially returned to the body builder I’m led to believe. they deemed it unviable and it was then moved elsewhere for second opinion.

If it’s in Southampton I assume that will be Qualiti conversions
Yes, that's what I assume.

By all accounts there was minimal visible damage, so I assume it's the chassis that's the problem.
 

richw

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Yes, that's what I assume.

By all accounts there was minimal visible damage, so I assume it's the chassis that's the problem.
The damaged area isn’t a bolt on/off part so insurance often go straight for write off on any non removable parts these days. Also makes it a less straight forward repair
 

Volvodart

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Somerset to get 25 new electric buses in major £14.7m investment

New electric buses will serve communities in the county thanks to a joint funding bid by Somerset Council and First Bus South and huge investment from the bus operator.

The 25 new double-decker and single decker buses will be funded by a £2.2 million grant from the Department for Transport’s (DfT) Zero Emission Bus Regional Area scheme (ZEBRA), alongside a £12.5 million investment from First Bus South which operates Buses of Somerset.

The buses will run from Buses of Somerset’s Hamilton Road depot in Taunton which is being upgraded to include charging infrastructure. First Bus have extensive experience of delivering electrification projects across five of their other UK depots, including First South’s depot in Hoeford, Fareham, as part of the first round of ZEBRA funding.

The electric buses will replace part of Buses of Somerset’s current diesel fleet and overall, it is expected that each electric bus will save up to 60 tonnes of tailpipe emissions per year.

Transport generates the largest proportion of carbon emissions by sector in Somerset (44 per cent in 2019) significantly higher than the total UK emissions (27 per cent).

A project of this scale in Somerset, would be a fantastic opportunity and deliver much wider decarbonisation benefits. Transport generates the largest proportion of carbon emissions by sector in Somerset (44% in 2019) significantly higher than the total UK emissions (27%).

The proposed routes for operation of the electric vehicles include:

28 – Taunton to Minehead
21– Taunton to Bridgwater
22 – Taunton to Wellington
1 – Taunton Town Service
2 – Taunton Town Service
Councillor Richard Wilkins, Somerset Council’s Lead Member for Transport and Digital said: “This is incredibly exciting news for Somerset and a major part of our drive towards a cleaner, greener county and we are really grateful to First Bus South for their major investment in Somerset’s future.

“It’s a fantastic opportunity to start the process of electrifying buses in in the county and will ultimately have huge benefits for the wider environment and communities in Somerset.”

First Bus South’s Managing Director, Simon Goff, said: “We’re delighted to be bringing electric buses to Somerset, supporting cleaner, greener travel in the county. We’re making a major investment of £12.5m in this project, which shows our strong commitment to our passengers and bus services in Somerset. We’ve worked in close partnership with Somerset Council to get to this point, and we cannot wait to get these vehicles on the road.

“This is a vital project will improve travel for our customers who will benefit from these state-of-the-art vehicles, including improved air quality and a much better journey experience overall. It’s also exciting news for colleagues as we start to transform and secure the future of our Taunton depot.

“We’re proud to be a leader in sustainable transport, and this marks an exciting point for bus travel across Somerset. “

Transport Secretary Mark Harper said: “As part of our plan to improve local transport across the South West, we’re providing over £2 million to roll out 25 brand new zero-emission buses across Somerset.

“This latest investment into our bus fleet comes on top of the £3.5 billion we have invested into our bus network since 2020, protecting and improving bus routes into 2025 as well as extending the £2 bus fare cap until the end of 2024, made possible by reallocated HS2 funding.”
 

Busaholic

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Somerset to get 25 new electric buses in major £14.7m investment
Where will the other buses go? Those routes in and out of Taunton won't use up too many of the 25. Could it be that another First subsidiary operating in the county gets some?
 

TheGrandWazoo

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Where will the other buses go? Those routes in and out of Taunton won't use up too many of the 25. Could it be that another First subsidiary operating in the county gets some?
Assumes that those routes will retain their current frequencies? Restoration of half hourly headways on 21 and the 22 and 22A would certainly help on that score.
 

stuu

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Where will the other buses go? Those routes in and out of Taunton won't use up too many of the 25. Could it be that another First subsidiary operating in the county gets some?
The 21 and 28 both need 6 buses, the 22 needs 4 so that's 16. 4 for the town routes, a couple spare, and if they include the X22 then that's most of them accounted for
 

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