DeverseSam
Member
S bahn Karlsruhe looks like a tram and doesn’t appear on the interrail app - does this mean it’s not valid? thank you
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S bahn Karlsruhe on interrail
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Whether or not a train appears in the rail planner app is not relevant for Interrail validity.
What matters is the operator. AFAIK Interrail is not valid onKVV VBK operated trains, but is valid on trains operated by DB or AVG. Also see the list linked from this page:
www.interrail.eu
What matters is the operator. AFAIK Interrail is not valid on
Trains in Germany
Travel around Germany by train with an Interrail Pass and experience the fun beer culture, stunning natural beauty and gorgeous castles!
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DeverseSam
Member
nwales58
Member
Hardly. You're looking at the logo on the departure sheets.
At random
S2 Wörth, S4 Heilbronn are AVG, nice long route to be on a tram.
S3 Mannheim, S9 Mainz are DB Regio
To see the operatorI, in DB Navigator click on the boxed i, on bahn.de click on Beförderer.
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Nottingham59
Established Member
I interrailed to Karlsruhe last summer. All of the local services seemed to be KVV and not valid on interrail.
But we didn't go far out of the city.
Which S-bahn route are you planning to use?
But we didn't go far out of the city.
Which S-bahn route are you planning to use?
nwales58
Member
Couple of things being confused here.
KVV is a tariff union, Verkehrsverbund. They set fares.
The Karlsruhe local transport operator is VBK, though they share a logo.
Karlsruhe is delightfully flexitarian, trams falling onto railway tracks then off again. Street track, or subway, shared by local trams and similar looking ones going rather long distances on private RoW(Albtal), or DB track (Heilbronn, Rastatt etc). Pity DfT and Network Rail have yet to notice how easy it all is.
So you see a string of similar yellow and red trams passing by. Some of them are VBK city or S, others are AVG S services on which Interrail is supposed to be valid.
VBK operate S2 - Interrail not valid.
AVG operate many of the S services, running through the city centre as well as some detached.
DB Regio operate S services from Hbf DB platforms.
@rvdborgt : good to know the Deutschlandtariff list is linked from interrail.eu. What surprises me is that there are no excluded lines for operators such as Albtal and Citybahn Chemnitz. I had assumed, without evidence, that Interrail was only valid on these operators on DB Netz infrastructure.
Edits: effing spelling chucker.
KVV is a tariff union, Verkehrsverbund. They set fares.
The Karlsruhe local transport operator is VBK, though they share a logo.
Karlsruhe is delightfully flexitarian, trams falling onto railway tracks then off again. Street track, or subway, shared by local trams and similar looking ones going rather long distances on private RoW(Albtal), or DB track (Heilbronn, Rastatt etc). Pity DfT and Network Rail have yet to notice how easy it all is.
So you see a string of similar yellow and red trams passing by. Some of them are VBK city or S, others are AVG S services on which Interrail is supposed to be valid.
VBK operate S2 - Interrail not valid.
AVG operate many of the S services, running through the city centre as well as some detached.
DB Regio operate S services from Hbf DB platforms.
@rvdborgt : good to know the Deutschlandtariff list is linked from interrail.eu. What surprises me is that there are no excluded lines for operators such as Albtal and Citybahn Chemnitz. I had assumed, without evidence, that Interrail was only valid on these operators on DB Netz infrastructure.
Edits: effing spelling chucker.
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I corrected my post, KVV is the transport authority, VBK operates the trams in Karlsruhe.
(And the English Wikipedia erroneously mentions KVV as one of the S-Bahn operators.)
I also assumed that and was almost sure that Interrail wasn't valid on the AVG lines, e.g. to Bad Herrenalb, Ittersbach and Bad Wildbad.
However, the old list with Interrail validity isn't available anymore and they now refer to this new list. And things may also have changed.
nwales58
Member
Changes including AVG taking over serious lengths of previous DB infrastructure, I suppose. Rastatt-Freudenstadt and Karlsruhe-Heilbronn which you might assume was Big Railway but no !onger.
DeverseSam
Member
Thank you, very useful
Just Kongresszentrum to Hbf for now, but it would be interesting to explore more
Faced with a controller I’d be tempted to show that site which doesn’t clearly exclude any S bahnTrains in Germany
Travel around Germany by train with an Interrail Pass and experience the fun beer culture, stunning natural beauty and gorgeous castles!
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The old list was excellent - it specified the exact limits of validity if not the entire network, whereas the current one just lists operators.
To take an example from personal experience, the BOB (Bayern) was only valid with Eurail between München and Holzkirchen - I had to excess beyond.
It was a few years ago, and things may have changed, but I am suspicious.
Does anyone know of definitive information?
Then according to the new list, you can use the S-Bahn, but not the trams there.
The rail planner app also has an overview under More > Network guides that includes all S-Bahnen. I can't think of any S-Bahn line where Interrail isn't valid, now that AVG is included.
Maybe that changed when the BOB started to operate under the BRB brand?
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Edited to clarify that this is a reply to @rvdborgt
It may well have done, but how can we know?
If it is the case that every operator mentioned accepts Interrail/Eurail over their entire network it would be very useful if the document said so!
Another one I am suspicious of is the UBB, which was previously shown as valid between Stralsund and Züssow (the joint with DB section). It would be surprising if this was not still the case, but the UBB is now not mentioned at all - which doesn't fill me with confidence that the document is accurate.
It may well have done, but how can we know?
If it is the case that every operator mentioned accepts Interrail/Eurail over their entire network it would be very useful if the document said so!
Another one I am suspicious of is the UBB, which was previously shown as valid between Stralsund and Züssow (the joint with DB section). It would be surprising if this was not still the case, but the UBB is now not mentioned at all - which doesn't fill me with confidence that the document is accurate.
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Yes indeed. The document name indicates in that direction but it would be so much better if was clear in the document itself.
UBB now only run from Züssow. In addition, the operator is indicated as "DB Regio AG Nordost", i.e. the same as the other DB trains in that region. According to the German Wikipedia, DB Regio Nordost has operated the services on Usedom since 2017, after they won a tender, so that may be the explanation.
That would certainly explain the Stralsund-Züssow discrepancy, and lack of mention of UBB!
But, unless I've missed it, 'DB Regio AG Nordost' isn't in the list either - which still doesn't clarify the ex UBB validity, but also brings into question the other lines (which presumably includes Stralsund-Züssow!).
What a mess
I suppose "DB Regio AG" (at the top of the list) is enough?
Maybe, but the mention of other DB Regio entities (but not this one) immediately below that doesn't help with confidence!
I'm Interrailing from April to July - I'll try to find out more on the ground - but it shouldn't be this way!
dutchflyer
Established Member
- Joined
- 17 Oct 2013
- Messages
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Me too to start a new InterRail from Easter coming-2 month.
But for DE=Germany I find the monthly DE-ticket for 49€ far better value-and no problems like this. Valid anywhere. Just came back on it this morning.
As for where InterR is valid-well, Germany is about the only country where such tiny difficulties exist. Plus only a very few railbashers tend to use such minor lines anyway. About all the usual questions-also on tripadvisor etc. always are abut REServ. and long-dist trains.
Found via google in german a very old same discussion (15-12 yrs old) by some names that are well-known for their knowledge about this and that also was-just for the KVV area very complicated. About all other real train S-Bahn networks are run by DB-major exception the VRR=Rhein Ruhr area.
But I will try to make a visit to KVV/INfobüro then and ask about it.
But for DE=Germany I find the monthly DE-ticket for 49€ far better value-and no problems like this. Valid anywhere. Just came back on it this morning.
As for where InterR is valid-well, Germany is about the only country where such tiny difficulties exist. Plus only a very few railbashers tend to use such minor lines anyway. About all the usual questions-also on tripadvisor etc. always are abut REServ. and long-dist trains.
Found via google in german a very old same discussion (15-12 yrs old) by some names that are well-known for their knowledge about this and that also was-just for the KVV area very complicated. About all other real train S-Bahn networks are run by DB-major exception the VRR=Rhein Ruhr area.
But I will try to make a visit to KVV/INfobüro then and ask about it.
At such locations I expect replies like "What is Interrail?"
You might have more knowledgeable replies when you send them an e-mail.
From a customer's point of view, however, the situation is clear: the Interrail website provides a list where the passes are valid. DB and AVG are on it so no problem. Any tickets or penalties you incur must be reimbursed by Eurail, since they said it was valid.
I admire your faith!
Whilst the implication is clear, there is nothing in the linked document mentioning Interrail/Eurail at all, let alone confirming validity.
As best I can tell, the linked document is pages 21 to 24 (perhaps an appendix?) of a 24 page document, which has presumably been issued for wider purposes.
In the absence of an explicit statement as to what it is, and without knowing what is in the other 20 pages, I really don't think it can be taken as definitive proof of Interrail/Eurail validity.
One hopes that this will be sorted soon, without too much grief in the meantime!
nwales58
Member
So this discussion was about saving Eur 3.10, or 6.20 for a day ticket, mainly.
Yes, there is a lot more to explore around Karlsruhe on the AVG-operated lines.
Indeed. It is a Deutschlandtarif document. Which actually gives the answer, although I didn't see it yesterday.
Deutschlandtarif, as I understand it, replaced DB's Produktclasse C a couple of years ago. It is a tariff union (yes, another one) of all passenger rail operators. It also took over QdL and the Länder day tickets and does revenue allocation for Deutschlandticket (which it pre-dates).
See Teil A Tarifbedingunen des Deutschlandtarifs:
Translating a summary is not relevant, relevant fragments are:
- Section 9.2.4 specifically includes Interrail as an international rail pass valid in Germany, referring to section 2.2
- Section 2.2 (and 2.1, shockingly imprecise for a German document, everything is "e.g.") seems to include all trains operated by EVU, the Eisenbahnverkehrsunternehmen list in section 10.
- Section 10 is the list pointed to from interrail.eu, as found by @rvdborgt.
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Thank you - that is something!
So it would appear that there are no longer any cases where only part of an operator's services are covered - it's all or none.
Fingers crossed!
It caught my eye that the part document linked to from interrail.eu is from an earlier version (June 2023) than the full document linked above (December 2023).
I haven't checked if there are any changes to the list of operators, but it's another blow to confidence.
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Does this mean that Interrail passes are now valid on the entirety of the "Rasender Roland" route (Lauterbach Mole to Göhren)?
Last summer I had a rather frustrating experience where I was berated by the "senior grip" and charged an onboard surcharge (or similar) for daring to assume that my Interrail pass was valid. D-Tickets are valid, and the Interrail app listed it as valid, so it didn't exactly seem a stretch even if it is a quasi-heritage railway.
He insisted that Interrail passes were only valid for the tiny section of "interavailable" mainline running between Lauterbach Mole and Putbus and that I should have known this by referring to page 180-odd of some obscure PDF.
I submitted a complaint afterwards and the railway's response backed him to the hilt. Needless to say, I'm not in any hurry to return.
I wish I knew - that's a classic example of what I'm concerned about.
This is all a bit un-Teutonic!
nwales58
Member
Procedure:
Putbus-Göhren operator is Pressnitztalbahn.
D-Tarif Teil A Anlage 1: Pressnitztalbahn not, or no longer, listed.
So not valid, nor on Lauterbach-Bergen auf R
Wonder if it used to be and they are not getting enough revenue from D-ticket users.
Putbus-Göhren operator is Pressnitztalbahn.
D-Tarif Teil A Anlage 1: Pressnitztalbahn not, or no longer, listed.
So not valid, nor on Lauterbach-Bergen auf R
Wonder if it used to be and they are not getting enough revenue from D-ticket users.
The way to get a refund is to contact Eurail customer service and mention that their planner said your pass was valid.
I think they did reimburse me in the end. It was a disappointing experience all round, all rather reminiscent of the sort of ticketing nonsense you tend to get in the UK actually! Ironically, Interrail is very easy to use in the UK as it's accepted without issue all National Rail operators except for Heathrow Express.
Fortunately in Germany the Deutschlandtarif helps a bit to clean u the pathwork. ODEG also used to have some lines where passes weren't valid...
It doesn't help of course that Eurail's crappy planner has lots of errors. Until about 2 years ago, it would say the pass is valid in the Copenhagen metro and a number of tourist lines in Czechia and Austria...
Fragezeichnen
Member
They are not part of the Deutschlandtarif(they have their own fare structure and as far as I know don't accept regular Vekehrverbund tickets), however, that doesn't mean they aren't part of the validity area of the Deutschlandticket. Lauterbach-Bergen is listed there.
The Rügen Narrow Gauge Steam and the nearby line to Kühlungsborn accept the Deutschlandticket too, upon payment of a €10 per day/€30 day per week supplement(local residents excluded).
nwales58
Member
Thanks. My guess was wrong.
I'm still amazed that Interrail is valid, for example, from Heilbronn Harmonie to the outskirts because it's operated by AVG or Kassel Hbf to Auestadion on RegioTram.
U-Bahnfreund
Member
I can assure everyone that KVV ticket check staff don't know the ins and outs of Interrail and anything resembling a valid ticket (like an Interrail written-in with the journey details) is very likely to be accepted.
I asked KVV about Interrail once and basically if you're travelling on AVG trains (so basically any S train except VBK S2) to or from *railway stations* (anything beyond Albtalbahnhof, Karlsruhe-Durlach or Rheinbergstraße, and not within Heilbronn) - it's fine. If you're travelling to or from tram stops, it's a bit of a grey zone, and on S2 or VBK trams it's not strictly allowed - but as I said, they don't really know themselves.
Also the ticket checking quote is really low, I had three checks here in the last 12 months, and I ride the trams and trains basically every day.
I asked KVV about Interrail once and basically if you're travelling on AVG trains (so basically any S train except VBK S2) to or from *railway stations* (anything beyond Albtalbahnhof, Karlsruhe-Durlach or Rheinbergstraße, and not within Heilbronn) - it's fine. If you're travelling to or from tram stops, it's a bit of a grey zone, and on S2 or VBK trams it's not strictly allowed - but as I said, they don't really know themselves.
Also the ticket checking quote is really low, I had three checks here in the last 12 months, and I ride the trams and trains basically every day.