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Transpennine Route Upgrade and Electrification updates

Revaulx

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Great video!

Those of us who have found the glacial speed of progress on the short sections being electrified desperately frustrating can’t fail to be impressed by the scale and urgency of all that’s going on here :D
 
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GRALISTAIR

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Great video!

Those of us who have found the glacial speed of progress on the short sections being electrified desperately frustrating can’t fail to be impressed by the scale and urgency of all that’s going on here :D
Indeed. Looking at the whole project there is work going on in multiple locations which is encouraging.
 

GRALISTAIR

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I don't think Phillips Park to Ashburys has been in the project in the last 4 or 5 years.

Statements from Network Rail giving an overview of the current overall state of the project, and what will happen when, have been notably lacking.
I agree. Open railway map dot org has it as dotted line so sort of in progress.
 

Spartacus

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For the uninitiated, is 5 miles in 4 years reasonable progress? Seem like quite a long time for a relatively short distance?

It's just a reflection of it's low priority, as a piece of electrification on it's own it's practically useless, it's only useful as part of the big picture, so there was absolutely no rush about it. When you don't need to be fast you can do the work simply when you've the opportunity, not only for access, but when you've the staff & equipment to spare, that way you can keep costs down.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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It's just a reflection of it's low priority, as a piece of electrification on it's own it's practically useless, it's only useful as part of the big picture, so there was absolutely no rush about it. When you don't need to be fast you can do the work simply when you've the opportunity, not only for access, but when you've the staff & equipment to spare, that way you can keep costs down.
It does keep the contractors and suppliers ticking over, similarly with Lostock-Wigan.
The wiring gap between Manchester and York will come down by 18 miles (from 67 to 49) once TP electric trains start running on the new wires.
 

deltic08

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It does keep the contractors and suppliers ticking over, similarly with Lostock-Wigan.
The wiring gap between Manchester and York will come down by 18 miles (from 67 to 49) once TP electric trains start running on the new wires.
Have you taken account of the two miles already wired across Leeds?
 

matacaster

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Visited Huddersfield this morning. Didn't seem to be any work ongoing at ground (road) level in relation to bridge span which has been removed at Bradford side during this possession. The big crane has gone and all the bridge broken up and removed. I could not find a vantage point to see what's going on at track level. There may well be work to top of parapets at viaduct / rail level ongoing to create a solid base for the new bridge span to be put in place. I assume that installing new bridge would only require a weekend possession at some time in the future as it isn't going to be possible to use it until at least one extra track is available and the station throat has all its bridge decking renewed next year during month long possession.

Looking from bridge near bus station at west end of Huddersfield station towards Leeds, there was piling or core drilling going on to north of platform 8.

I was unable to enter station and no good vantage points in,so no pictures I am on afraid.
 

snowball

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Press release


The Transpennine Route Upgrade (TRU) is expressing its appreciation to passengers for their patience and support while parts of the railway line through Huddersfield were closed for 10 days.

From Friday 29 March to Sunday 7 April, major rail upgrades were completed between Huddersfield and Ravensthorpe.

Working around the clock, engineers completed mining remediation work in Ravensthorpe and Huddersfield, upgraded over 700m of track in Deighton and Mirfield and installed a new bridge deck on Huddersfield viaduct.

To keep passengers moving during the upgrade work, diversionary routes and replacement bus services were utilised.

The work is part of a multi-billion pound Transpennine Route Upgrade, which will transform journeys across the North of England, enabling more frequent, faster trains to run along a fully electrified route between Manchester, Huddersfield, Leeds and York.

The final results at Huddersfield station will see the construction of two new platforms, the extension of existing platforms, improved accessibility and track upgrades, with the number of tracks between Huddersfield and Ravensthorpe doubling from two to four.

Gareth Hope, Sponsor on the Transpennine Route Upgrade, said:

“I’d like to thank passengers who travelled through Huddersfield over the last 10 days for their patience and understanding during these essential upgrades.

“The work was completed successfully, safely and on time. This takes us a step closer to bringing about major benefits and improvements for passengers travelling along the Transpennine route”.

Chris Nutton, Major Projects Director at TransPennine Express said:

“The work completed over the past ten days forms a critical foundation of the upgrades Huddersfield station will see in the coming years, enabling benefits across the wider North as part of the Transpennine Route Upgrade.

“We’d like to thank our customers for their patience and cooperation whilst these major improvement works took place over the past ten days".
 

yorkie

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Just a gentle reminder that this is an infrastructure updates thread regarding Transpennine Route Upgrade and Electrification

If people wish to discuss anything else not directly related to progress updates, we are very happy for these to be discussed, but we just ask that they are posted in an appropriate thread, in the relevant forum section please.

Many thanks :)


Edit: some posts have been moved to the following thread:

 
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AndyHudds

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Visited Huddersfield this morning. Didn't seem to be any work ongoing at ground (road) level in relation to bridge span which has been removed at Bradford side during this possession. The big crane has gone and all the bridge broken up and removed. I could not find a vantage point to see what's going on at track level. There may well be work to top of parapets at viaduct / rail level ongoing to create a solid base for the new bridge span to be put in place. I assume that installing new bridge would only require a weekend possession at some time in the future as it isn't going to be possible to use it until at least one extra track is available and the station throat has all its bridge decking renewed next year during month long possession.

Looking from bridge near bus station at west end of Huddersfield station towards Leeds, there was piling or core drilling going on to north of platform 8.

I was unable to enter station and no good vantage points in,so no pictures I am on afraid.
If you want a good vantage point for photos of the station during the work, use the public footpath on top of the retaining wall above the compound.

Not much is going on on at track level in terms of the removed deck as I passed on my way home from work in Leeds today, a couple of piles of spoil, looks like the stone work will need tidying up as well.
 

Tim_UK

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If you want a good vantage point for photos of the station during the work, use the public footpath on top of the retaining wall above the compound.

just watch for the glass in the top of the wall. You can get a decent view just stood in the mini NCP carpark too.


Not much is going on on at track level in terms of the removed deck as I passed on my way home from work in Leeds today, a couple of piles of spoil, looks like the stone work will need tidying up as well.

To add to this, as I drove past today.

The north side Iron bridge deck is removed but not yet replaced. Traffic on Bradford Road is single file still.

There is now more of a fenced in worksite on the eastern side of the archway on Bradford Road. I think there’s a lot of stonework to fix before you can put the bridge deck in.

The south side iron span is still in place.
 

Nicholas Lewis

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It's just a reflection of it's low priority, as a piece of electrification on it's own it's practically useless, it's only useful as part of the big picture, so there was absolutely no rush about it. When you don't need to be fast you can do the work simply when you've the opportunity, not only for access, but when you've the staff & equipment to spare, that way you can keep costs down.
That would be the case if the staff can flit between different projects but if they can't there is lot of unproductive time to be paid for. Then there is the overheads (no pun intended) of the project and engineering team. Of course NR will never reveal the cost for any of these works but the fact the whole TRU project is being quoted at 11B speaks volume that efficient delivery isn't a key output.
 

Tim_UK

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IMG_0661.jpg


This is the Wednesday (yesterday) view of the Bradford road bridge. I'm not sure what work is in progress. But clear that there is no new bridge deck yet.
 

modernrail

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That would be the case if the staff can flit between different projects but if they can't there is lot of unproductive time to be paid for. Then there is the overheads (no pun intended) of the project and engineering team. Of course NR will never reveal the cost for any of these works but the fact the whole TRU project is being quoted at 11B speaks volume that efficient delivery isn't a key output.
As a publicly funded organisation they should be transparent and they should be efficient.

A lack of transparency leads to a lack of scrutiny and benchmarking, no doubt one of the reasons the cost of anything railway related in the UK is a disgrace and severely limiting the budget going far (which then leads to industry complaints when Governments pull back).

A lack of efficiency is unforgivable. NR is publicly owned and funded. It should be aiming to prove the case for efficiency in public ownership.
 

Brissle Girl

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As a publicly funded organisation they should be transparent and they should be efficient.

A lack of transparency leads to a lack of scrutiny and benchmarking, no doubt one of the reasons the cost of anything railway related in the UK is a disgrace and severely limiting the budget going far (which then leads to industry complaints when Governments pull back).

A lack of efficiency is unforgivable. NR is publicly owned and funded. It should be aiming to prove the case for efficiency in public ownership.
The rail industry has long said that a rolling programme of electrification is the single thing which will most bring the cost down, something the current government has singularly failed to enable. The approaching hiatus in the MML programme being a classic example.

And the failures of the GWML project are now around 10 years ago in terms of when the project went badly wrong. Since then the industry has not been given much a chance to prove it can do things differently, with pocket sized projects of a few miles here and there, exactly the converse of what is needed.
 

modernrail

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Had GWML been delivered properly the remaining budget would have provided the rolling budget for much of the last 10 years.

I suspect our model of publicly owned procurement company is not working. Look at the cost of the new platform at Bradford Forster Square. £24 million. How? That is leaving aside the fact that there is rival plan sort of on the table for a new station in Bradford which lay leave the investment stranded and the fact that LNER have not actually committed to extra services and so I am not actually clear why it is being built in the first place.

It is an open secret that whenever you are costing a project on the railway you add some noughts, but why should it be like that.

Bearing in mind the cost is ultimately set by the quotes in tender returns, I have no sympathy for the industry whatsoever. It is being used as a cash cow.
 

Brissle Girl

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Had GWML been delivered properly the remaining budget would have provided the rolling budget for much of the last 10 years.
The odd thing is, when road projects, or hospital projects etc go spectacularly over budget, does the govt turn round and say, “right that’s it, no more will be built for the next decade”?
 

modernrail

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The odd thing is, when road projects, or hospital projects etc go spectacularly over budget, does the govt turn round and say, “right that’s it, no more will be built for the next decade”?
Yes they do. Hence we have very few new hospitals. The Carillion mess at Liverpool Royal as an example or damage that has been done.

As for roads, my impression is that they don’t tend to go as far over budget, but that is just an impression. I don’t have the facts to back it up.
 

Harvey B

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. Look at the cost of the new platform at Bradford Forster Square. £24 million. How?
How can a single platform alone cost £24 Million? At best, it's probably going to be nowhere near £1 Million. Nevermind 24 (Probably a few Hundred Thousand at best).

Which begs the question: What's happening with the extra money allocated to this project?
 

zwk500

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How can a single platform alone cost £24 Million? At best, it's probably going to be nowhere near £1 Million. Nevermind 24 (Probably a few Hundred Thousand at best).

Which begs the question: What's happening with the extra money allocated to this project?
Please do give us a breakdown of you 6-figure costs. Time & Materials at the appropriate rates, including all costs of design, permission, access to the railway and so forth.
 

quantinghome

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Yes they do. Hence we have very few new hospitals. The Carillion mess at Liverpool Royal as an example or damage that has been done.

As for roads, my impression is that they don’t tend to go as far over budget, but that is just an impression. I don’t have the facts to back it up.
They do go wildly overbudget, but road projects are undertaken for multiple clients - local authorities, regional bodies, as well the national bodies. So even if National Highways cuts back on schemes or progammes - and there are plenty of examples of that - there are plenty of local bypasses or spine roads through business parks or whatever to keep the road building industry going.

How can a single platform alone cost £24 Million? At best, it's probably going to be nowhere near £1 Million. Nevermind 24 (Probably a few Hundred Thousand at best).

Which begs the question: What's happening with the extra money allocated to this project?
Simple: it's not a just a single platform. It's one completely new platform, one platform reconstruction, a complete replacement of the track, and I believe replacement of the OLE.
 
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Mag_seven

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Can I remind everyone yet again that posts in this thread should be confined to providing scheme updates. If anyone wants to discuss anything else then please start a new thread elsewhere.

thanks
 

Nicholas Lewis

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They do go wildly overbudget, but road projects are undertaken for multiple clients - local authorities, regional bodies, as well the national bodies. So even if National Highways cuts back on schemes or progammes - and there are plenty of examples of that - there are plenty of local bypasses or spine roads through business parks or whatever to keep the road building industry going.


Simple: it's not a just a single platform. It's one completely new platform, one platform reconstruction, a complete replacement of the track, and I believe replacement of the OLE.
This should be a straightforward scheme the platform is going on the retail park side so much of the low level construction could be delivered without possessions which wont cost more than a few million. What piles on the cost with projects like this is what they do with the signalling. Im surmising its a route relay interlocking but don't know so if it is that means some SSI type replacement so thats 5m straight away. Depending on the length of the platform it could be one new S&C lead 2m but if the Up/Down crossovers need moving back you could easily add another 4m. Then you need new gantries for the OLE a few more million. Im sure the station would need some modification so couple more million. Then there is need to acquire land apparently from the retail park could easily be a few million. Then you have project management and design cost. Finally these projects also have to account for Sch4 compensation might not be a primary route but it all adds up. Then the cherry on the cake with any NR project is something like 30% contingency allowance so there's no embarrassment that we saw on the likes of GWEP.

So 24m feels toppy but in the current world its not that far out but as say depends on whether its a shortish or a full length platform for say 2x5 car Azumas
 

modernrail

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This should be a straightforward scheme the platform is going on the retail park side so much of the low level construction could be delivered without possessions which wont cost more than a few million. What piles on the cost with projects like this is what they do with the signalling. Im surmising its a route relay interlocking but don't know so if it is that means some SSI type replacement so thats 5m straight away. Depending on the length of the platform it could be one new S&C lead 2m but if the Up/Down crossovers need moving back you could easily add another 4m. Then you need new gantries for the OLE a few more million. Im sure the station would need some modification so couple more million. Then there is need to acquire land apparently from the retail park could easily be a few million. Then you have project management and design cost. Finally these projects also have to account for Sch4 compensation might not be a primary route but it all adds up. Then the cherry on the cake with any NR project is something like 30% contingency allowance so there's no embarrassment that we saw on the likes of GWEP.

So 24m feels toppy but in the current world its not that far out but as say depends on whether its a shortish or a full length platform for say 2x5 car Azumas
Are we really saying these costs as itemised are fine, shouldn’t be challenged as too high?

£4 million to move the up/down crossovers for instance. Really? Is this what it costs in other countries for that sort of job?
 

Nicholas Lewis

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Are we really saying these costs as itemised are fine, shouldn’t be challenged as too high?

£4 million to move the up/down crossovers for instance. Really? Is this what it costs in other countries for that sort of job?
That would be for new crossovers
 

Brissle Girl

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Are we really saying these costs as itemised are fine, shouldn’t be challenged as too high?

£4 million to move the up/down crossovers for instance. Really? Is this what it costs in other countries for that sort of job?
Who are we to challenge? Unless you have some particular engineering insight, on what basis will you challenge it, other than "it seems a lot to me".
 

kmc1962

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I was told in the week that work to take down part of the roof at Huddersfield was going ahead this weekend. Does anyone know if this has happened?
 

superkev

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Not sure but think the pic is today. Perhaps removing the train shed is imminent after being postponed last weekend due to wind.
K
 

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