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How did railtours work in BR days?

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renegademaster

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I saw a while back at a collector fair, dating from the early 90s, programmes from Hertfordshire railtours (Who later became UK railtours). Was it always the case private organizations chartered trains or was this a product of the transition to privatization? Did BR used to have an Enthusiast department?
 
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Helvellyn

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renegademaster said:
I saw a while back at a collector fair, dating from the early 90s, programmes from Hertfordshire railtours (Who later became UK railtours). Was it always the case private organizations chartered trains or was this a product of the transition to privatization? Did BR used to have an Enthusiast department?
Click to expand...
I think this could turn out to be an interesting post, and others will hopefully come with a wealth of information.

Under sectorisation InterCity had a Charter Unit. At privatisation that was moved into Rail Express Systems, the parcel company. Probably be cause they had a national operators licence. Most was quickly sold off to Pete Waterman, who created Waterman Railways.

A big part of the InterCity operation was luxury days out and Land Cruises. These used largely refurbished Mark 1 stock based at Bounds Green. Old Oak Common had an air conditioned Mark 2E set and for a few years in the late 1980s former Manchester Pullman Mark 2s operated from Euston Downside (Lakeland Pullman after all were renamed after bodies of water in the Lake District). The Land Cruises used surplus Mark 3A Sleepers to provide overnight accommodation.

There was also a collection of Mark 1s and later air-conditioned Mark 2D/2E coaches for more general charter services.
 
Bevan Price

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Back in the 1950s, 1960s and until about the early 1970s, many railtours were hired by Rail Enthusiast societies (e.g. LCGB, RCTS, SLS), arranged via (District/Division) managements - usually those responsible for the originating station. Coaching stock was usually that which was spare at weekends (usually Saturdays), often being mostly used for midweek peak hour trains. Use of pre-BR stock was common until it had all been withdrawn.
 
12LDA28C

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Helvellyn said:
I think this could turn out to be an interesting post, and others will hopefully come with a wealth of information.

Under sectorisation InterCity had a Charter Unit. At privatisation that was moved into Rail Express Systems, the parcel company. Probably be cause they had a national operators licence. Most was quickly sold off to Pete Waterman, who created Waterman Railways.

A big part of the InterCity operation was luxury days out and Land Cruises. These used largely refurbished Mark 1 stock based at Bounds Green. Old Oak Common had an air conditioned Mark 2E set and for a few years in the late 1980s former Manchester Pullman Mark 2s operated from Euston Downside (Lakeland Pullman after all were renamed after bodies of water in the Lake District). The Land Cruises used surplus Mark 3A Sleepers to provide overnight accommodation.

There was also a collection of Mark 1s and later air-conditioned Mark 2D/2E coaches for more general charter services.
Click to expand...

Well before sectorisation, BR did indeed used to run railtours / day excursions utilising locos and stock which were sat around idle at weekends, these trains ran as 'Merrymakers' to popular destinations such as Blackpool, Margate etc. BR also hired out locos and stock not only to Railtour operators but to private companies who could hire a train to take their employees for a day trip to the seaside, for example.
 
Sun Chariot

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renegademaster said:
I saw a while back at a collector fair, dating from the early 90s, programmes from Hertfordshire railtours (Who later became UK railtours). Was it always the case private organizations chartered trains or was this a product of the transition to privatization? Did BR used to have an Enthusiast department?
Click to expand...
As well as InterCity's above-mentioned charter division (and dedicated stock), BR used to run "Merrymaker" excursions, from various routes to popular destinations. The stock was usually a rake of Mk1s including rudimentary catering - and invariably there was a trade stand (books, etc) in the brake van's cage.
As a lad, I still recall my parents taking me on such a trip - up the Midland Main Line then across to Blackpool. It was 1983 and, goodness knows why, I still recall the loco was 45003.

Private enterprises also chartered BR stock - and, as well as those mentioned above, the early-mid 1980s had F&W (John Farrow and Peter Watts, who subsequently established their Hertfordshire Railtours and Pathfinder Tours), the Branchline Society, plus specialist clubs such as Class 40 Appeal, Class 20 Loco Society.

12LDA28C said:
Well before sectorisation, BR did indeed used to run railtours / day excursions utilising locos and stock which were sat around idle at weekends, these trains ran as 'Merrymakers' to popular destinations.
Click to expand...
Aha our posts crossed in the post! :D
 
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12LDA28C

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Sun Chariot said:
As well as InterCity's above-mentioned charter division (and dedicated stock), BR used to run "Merrynaker" excursions, from various routes to popular destinations. The stock was usually a rake of Mk1s including rudimentary catering - and invariably there was a trade stand (books, etc) in the brake van's cage.
As a lad, I still recall my parents taking me on such a trip - up the Midland Main Line then across to Blackpool. It was 1983 and, goodness knows why, I still recall the loco was 45003.

Private enterprises also chartered BR stock and, as well as those mentioned above, the early-mid 1980s had F&W (John Farrow and Peter Watts, who subsequently established their Hertfordshire Railtours and Pathfinder Tours), the Branchline Society, plus specialist clubs such as Class 40 Appeal, Class 20 Loco Society.


Aha our posts crossed in the post! :D
Click to expand...

Ha, and both included Blackpool, what a coincidence! I'm not sure the 'Vegas of the North' is the tourist draw it once was though...
 
Harpers Tate

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Indeed. In the mid 70s, I chartered the Hull Pullman set from the local BR offices on several occasions. This set wasn't used at weekends at the time and was made available to me at the same rate as the more typical Mark 1 rake used by others, although it did only have a capacity (with one extra coach added) of 450 compared to 600 I think.

Here it is at.......
HP77.jpg

(ahh, that would be telling). But we did do London for Xmas a few times as well. Somewhat misleading photo as the restaurant and buffet in this set at the time were Mk1s but the 2nd class coaches were all MK2. The Pullman cars are seen, though.

And on another occasion, thisHP2.jpg
which was going to (obvious) although we did also take it on to Whitby. That last one cost me all of £350 if I remember right.
 
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Some of the most important railtours of all were BR promotions, for example the Fifteen Guinea Special, the Hymek Swansong, the Western Tribute and the Deltic Scotsman Farewell.
 
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When I was a student at Aberystwyth we hired a through train to Euston by the simple means of getting the chief clerk at the station to ring the Passenger Section at Stoke Division and a price was quoted with half an hour and the train booked.

6 MK1;s and a class 40 for the record - we took the commercial risk , and did the ticket checking etc - turned a modest profit. Shame the 40 had no heat. (in December)

I did have the pleasure of flagging if off from Borth - like many things - you never forget your first time .... :D
 
75A

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Musn't forget the Footex, aka football special. I've been on em to Lincoln, Parson Street (Bristol City), Longport (Port Vale), Smethwick Rolfe Street (West Brom) & Nottingham straight of the top of my head, and I'm sure others will come to mind.

On the footplate, I can remember 3 and all of them involved Liverpool. Two were trains from Lime Street to Hove, which we took over from Norwood men @ Hove and took ecs to Littlehampton where we sat around for a couple of hours before taking them back to Hove to hand over to a Norwood crew.
The other one was much more exotic.
At silly o'clock we went 'pass' to Clapham Junction to take over a Footex from Lime Street to St Etienne in France.
Our part was to take them down to Newhaven Marine, where they transfered to a ship to Dieppe and then another train down to the south of France.

All 3 of these trains were headed by a Crompton (class 33).
 
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It's always been an odd market - BR and the Big Four ran far more specials off their own back than the TOCs but even into privatisation some TOCs have dabbled in running railtours - most have done some kind of special to commemorate a train withdrawal, anniversary or similar but Great Western Trains and successors as well as East Midlands Trains ran them all over the network with their own crews at different periods of time for private promoters.
 
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LowLevel said:
It's always been an odd market - BR and the Big Four ran far more specials off their own back than the TOCs but even into privatisation some TOCs have dabbled in running railtours - most have done some kind of special to commemorate a train withdrawal, anniversary or similar but Great Western Trains and successors as well as East Midlands Trains ran them all over the network with their own crews at different periods of time for private promoters.
Click to expand...

Great Western had a "anywhere" provision in their safety case which allowed exotic trips.

I ran (for my next door headteacher neighbour - to celebrate a 100+ years of his school - St Albans Abbey to Clacton) - this was with a 321 , points clipped at Watford Junction - pilot traction inspectors from Stratford - Clacton (done on the old boys network) etc etc.

We made no money , as we had to pay EWS for a one day safety case for this train which they did nothing with - bar signing a piece of paper which they posted to us.

And bearing in mind the "interest" on this charter to Pwllheli on this forum - the charter went all stations to Watford Junction to cover the branch - then fast to Camden Road to collect a Stratford (North London Railways guard) - then Clacton for berth - the Great Eastern being good eggs gave it a litter pick and arranged tanking . Free as well.
 
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ChiefPlanner said:
Great Western had a "anywhere" provision in their safety case which allowed exotic trips.

I ran (for my next door headteacher neighbour - to celebrate a 100+ years of his school - St Albans Abbey to Clacton) - this was with a 321 , points clipped at Watford Junction - pilot traction inspectors from Stratford - Clacton (done on the old boys network) etc etc.

We made no money , as we had to pay EWS for a one day safety case for this train which they did nothing with - bar signing a piece of paper which they posted to us.

And bearing in mind the "interest" on this charter to Pwllheli on this forum - the charter went all stations to Watford Junction to cover the branch - then fast to Camden Road to collect a Stratford (North London Railways guard) - then Clacton for berth - the Great Eastern being good eggs gave it a litter pick and arranged tanking . Free as well.
Click to expand...
I know when EMT ran charity charters to such exotic locations as Swanage and Pickering everyone from the MD to the drivers, guards, hosts and anyone else involved donated their time. Commercial jobs I think were just rostered normal crew with route conductors.

Having HSTs that could basically go anywhere very much helped!
 
30907

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WR London Division did some interesting DMU trips in the early 70s, covering freight-only lines like Abingdon. I also recall a 6-BIL EMU trips which covered the NLL, which I am fairly sure was BR-run (there was a later one by a society).

And the Euston-Aberystwyth Merrymaker for £1.50 (children free - aimed at getting people to book holidays!)) in Spring 1971, which an enterprising school railway society remarketed at 75p/head AND persuaded the VoR that they would make money if they ran a connecting special.

Away from home so can't quote exact detail.
 
Stathern Jc

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HurdyGurdy said:
An honourable mention also of the Mystery Excursion. You would be well into the journey, and still speculating, by the time the destination was announced.
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Before taking early retirement in the early 80s my Dad was Head of Special Services (or a similar job title) in Nottingham and was involved in planning the Merrymakers and other tours / charters originating in the East Midlands including the popular Mystery Trips.
He, or one of the others in the team, would be on the trip as the BR Rep and at the appropriate time pass along the train to let those who hadn't already guessed know the destination. That always gave a level of entertainment as at times someone would mutter about having already been there on one of the previous years Mystery trips. Obviously the nature of a Mystery Trip.

I would get the nod as to which would be of interest. Sworn to secrecy of course and having to look as surprised as everyone else.
Aberystwyth was always a favourite.
Plenty of time for a run on the Vale of Rheidol, and on the way home a pair of 25s charging up to Talerddig. Magic!
 
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Harpers Tate said:
Indeed. In the mid 70s, I chartered the Hull Pullman set from the local BR offices on several occasions. This set wasn't used at weekends at the time and was made available to me at the same rate as the more typical Mark 1 rake used by others, although it did only have a capacity (with one extra coach added) of 450 compared to 600 I think.

Here it is at.......
View attachment 156097

(ahh, that would be telling). But we did do London for Xmas a few times as well. Somewhat misleading photo as the restaurant and buffet in this set at the time were Mk1s but the 2nd class coaches were all MK2. The Pullman cars are seen, though.

And on another occasion, thisView attachment 156098
which was going to (obvious) although we did also take it on to Whitby. That last one cost me all of £350 if I remember right.
Click to expand...
Taking wages as a comparison what would £350 equate to now?
 
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The biggest problem in BR days was trying to run a railtour on Saturdays from May to September, as the standard reply was "no stock available".
 
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One of the oddments I remember was one damp mid-week afternoon in the latter part of 1980 having a private excursion for a family reunion which was running from Paddington to somewhere west of Exeter, probably right on into Cornwall, passing my box. It used one of the Mark 1 sets that were used on the Thames Valley peak-hour commuter extras in the week and the trains to the west at the weekend: there may have been a bit of maintenance juggling to get an extra set for one day. I have had it in mind that the organiser was the newsreader Gordon Honeycombe, whose family came from the Liskeard area, but even a look at his diaries, which are on line, fails to find any reference to it: one of those trivial little niggles.
 
A

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Harpers Tate said:
Indeed. In the mid 70s, I chartered the Hull Pullman set from the local BR offices on several occasions.
Click to expand...
I've often wondered just how much chartering a train cost? it would surely vary depending on distance and the number of coaches required etc.
 
Harpers Tate

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The last trip I did to London (using the Hull Pullman) cost £3000 in the Mid 70s. Earlier ones were closer to £2000.
The trip to (still not saying, but not London - see first photo above) was less, but I don't remember how much less. A little over half the distance; similar journey time. And the 3-car DMU pictured was, as I say, £350.
 
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Harpers Tate said:
The last trip I did to London (using the Hull Pullman) cost £3000 in the Mid 70s. Earlier ones were closer to £2000.
The trip to (still not saying, but not London - see first photo above) was less, but I don't remember how much less. A little over half the distance; similar journey time. And the 3-car DMU pictured was, as I say, £350.
Click to expand...
Thanks for that, that's very interesting.

I started a thread a while ago about Wakes Weeks holidays covering say 1900 to the 1960's and it was very common for trains to be chartered. All sorts of groups such as miners, working men's clubs, weavers, even some mill owners chartered trains for their employees for things like a day out by the seaside.
 
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It wasn’t just the cost of hiring the loco and coaches, which were fairly constant, at least to a certain extent. The number of traincrew required could vary based on distance, route knowledge and even traction knowledge. You might have to book extra signalling staff on for certain routes or you might need extra platform or shunting staff at some locations. And if the coaches had to be brought in from another depot, that added to the cost.
 
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