Does anyone know when each LU line and each LU stock got rid of Guards and went DOO? I seem to remember the last one was the Northern Line which had Guards on the 1959 Stock up until withdrawal and was DOO on the 1995 Stock from introduction but i am wondering about the other lines? Did all other lines go DOO at the same time new stock was introduced? Or were there any periods when the A/C/D Stock and 1967/1972/1973 Stock etc had Guards too? If anyone knows more about which stocks had Guards and when each line and each stock went DOO that would be much appreciated?
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Guards on London Underground trains.
- Thread starter stadler
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Dstock7080
Established Member
Victoria introduced with OMO One Man Operation 1 September 1968 (1967)
At the time referred as OPO conversion:
Circle 26 March 1984 (C)
H&C 22 October 1984 (C)
East London 13 May 1985 (D)
District 4 November 1985 (C & D)
Metropolitan 29 September 1986 (A)
Piccadilly 31 August 1987 (1973)
Jubilee 28 March 1988 (1972mkII, 1983)
Bakerloo 20 November 1989 (1972)
Central (part operation) 13 March 1994 (1992 only)
W&City LU 5 April 1994 (1992) (W&City NSE 19 July 1993)
Central (part operation III) 17 October 1994 (60 trains 1992 only)
Central 17 February 1995 last 1962 operations.
Northern 27 January 2000 last 1959 operations (1995 Stock introduced as OPO)
At the time referred as OPO conversion:
Circle 26 March 1984 (C)
H&C 22 October 1984 (C)
East London 13 May 1985 (D)
District 4 November 1985 (C & D)
Metropolitan 29 September 1986 (A)
Piccadilly 31 August 1987 (1973)
Jubilee 28 March 1988 (1972mkII, 1983)
Bakerloo 20 November 1989 (1972)
Central (part operation) 13 March 1994 (1992 only)
W&City LU 5 April 1994 (1992) (W&City NSE 19 July 1993)
Central (part operation III) 17 October 1994 (60 trains 1992 only)
Central 17 February 1995 last 1962 operations.
Northern 27 January 2000 last 1959 operations (1995 Stock introduced as OPO)
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Thank you for the information and dates. I could not remember whether these stocks had Guards or not. So on the A/C/D/1973 Stocks did Guards use the rear cab or a middle cab i presume? Because from what i remember none of these stocks have panels in the saloons like the 1938 Stock and 1959 Stock etc did?
Dstock7080
Established Member
1956/59/62, 1972, A Stock in rear car with passengers,
C, D, 1973, 1983 1992 in rear cab
(further dates added above)
C, D, 1973, 1983 1992 in rear cab
(further dates added above)
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Snow1964
Established Member
On A stock there were guards panels in inner end of cab vehicles (at at few stations like Moorgate rear doors didn't open). When they were converted some were not done one end so had to work as 8cars with the unconverted cabs in middle, from memory only about a third could be used as 4car units after OPO, other two thirds became single ended units
C and D stock had provision from build, but worked with guards for many years
C and D stock had provision from build, but worked with guards for many years
Ashley Hill
Established Member
When the Heritage stock goes out and about is a guard provided. Presumably managers acting as guards?
ThameslinkUser
Member
Test train operators.
Dstock7080
Established Member
The were introduced with Guards riding in the cab, assisting the driver.
Not conventional crew operated
Thank you for providing the extra dates. That is very helpful to have this information.
Regarding the 1992 Stock why did they have Guards for such a short period? I am just curious if there is any reason why they did not go DOO from day one like they did with the 1995 Stock trains?
Also why did they get rid of Guards in two stages? You mention two dates for the 1992 Stock on the Central Line so i presume it was different dates for different sections?
I find it interesting that they used the rear cab or rear carriage saloon on every train. Many of these stocks had cabs in the middle or saloon panels in the middle so you would think they would of wanted them to be in the middle so they get a better view of the entire train.
FormerBritInMe
Member
Regarding the Central Line, I assume that the Epping to Ongar shuttle always ran with a guard since it had the older stock and never converted to the 1992 stock? I believe 30 September 1994 was the date of the last service to Ongar.
There are a few photos online showing 1992 Stock trains at Ongar but i am not sure if this was under test only or if they carried passengers on the branch too.
Dstock7080
Established Member
Test runs only, not in passenger service
I think the two OPO, no-guard, operations missed above were
- The District Q23 single cars for the Acton Town-South Acton shuttle service, 1939-1959
- The modified 1960 stock, with Victoria line type ATO equipment (later supplemented by 1967 stock) operation of the Central line Woodford-Hainault shuttles, essentially as a pre-Victoria line trial, from the mid 1960s (how long did this last?)
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edwin_m
Veteran Member
The guard used to keep the door open and watch as the train left the platform, which on Tube-sized stock meant that their head was outside the profile of the roof and they would have met a gory end if they'd still been doing that when they got to the headwall. So it was important that the guard looked forward, so best if they were at the rear with most of the train ahead of them. It also meant they could watch for nearly the whole time any part of the train was in the platform.
Southernrover
Member
- Joined
- 30 Nov 2009
- Messages
- 74
Jubilee line went opo with 72mk2 and 83 stocks. The mk 2s were opo converted by then.
Dstock7080
Established Member
14 trains of 1972 mkII Stock remained on the Jubilee at the time of OPO introduction
Central
Member
There was a case in the days of 62TS on the Central a guard was too busy watching the women on the platform and struck the headwall,think it was Chancery Lane.
whoosh
Established Member
- Joined
- 3 Sep 2008
- Messages
- 1,378
The Central Line used a small number of 1960 stock which was converted to Driver Only in the final years of the Epping to Ongar services. 1960 stock had tested the ATO system used for the Victoria Line on shuttles from Wood to Hainult.
They were conventionally driven when used on the Epping to Ongar line.
DaventryRabbit
Member
If you watch the Video 125 Cab Ride DVD of the Central Line (the 1992 Version) I'm sure you see a shot of the 1960 stock at Epping on the Ongar Shuttle, with Car Style Wing Mirrors attatched! Presumably a cheap way of converting to DOO?