A career as a signaller

NRnoob · 12 Apr 2024

Hi guys.

Two quick questions:

On average, what would the pension salary sacrifice for a G3 be on 12 hour rostered shifts? How much will the monthly contributions on the SMART pension be estimate?

Also, going into that, is the pension worked out on the base salary or base salary and premiums (nights, Sundays, etc.)

I'm aware that the base salary will not be what you expect to make in a year. Is it fair to add 30% on top for rostered Sundays, nights etc as a shift premium? Flat, no overtime etc.

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Buiadh · 12 Apr 2024

Hi guys.

On a 12hr 0600-1800-0600 rota, would both the Saturday to Sunday Nightshift and the Sunday to Monday Nightshift be counted at overtime?

Lpf93 · 13 Apr 2024

Buiadh said:
Hi guys.

On a 12hr 0600-1800-0600 rota, would both the Saturday to Sunday Nightshift and the Sunday to Monday Nightshift be counted at overtime?

On Saturday nights from 0000-0600 you get 1.5 (time and half).
1800-2359 Sunday night is time and half then 0000-0600 is 1.25 (time and a quarter)

NRnoob said:
Hi guys.

Two quick questions:

On average, what would the pension salary sacrifice for a G3 be on 12 hour rostered shifts? How much will the monthly contributions on the SMART pension be estimate?

Also, going into that, is the pension worked out on the base salary or base salary and premiums (nights, Sundays, etc.)

I'm aware that the base salary will not be what you expect to make in a year. Is it fair to add 30% on top for rostered Sundays, nights etc as a shift premium? Flat, no overtime etc.

Just checked mine and it was £189 odd. It’s worked out on your base salary. You can increase your contribution if you want to.

Probably be close to 30% if you have 2 Sundays a month (day and night).

Nippy · 13 Apr 2024

Buiadh said:
Hi guys.

On a 12hr 0600-1800-0600 rota, would both the Saturday to Sunday Nightshift and the Sunday to Monday Nightshift be counted at overtime?

As said you’d get the enhanced rate after midnight. But if it’s your base roster its not classed as overtime in the way a RDW or Sunday worked is.

Signal_Box · 13 Apr 2024

The Difference said:
That’s a good insight into some great potential earnings! How do you come to these figures though? From what I have read, you can usually add around £10k on top of a Signallers salary just by working your rostered rota (with Sunday workings and Nightshift allowance added) just curious how adding some RDW you can push £90-£100k from a base line salary of almost £48k.

I have applied to Grade 9 so I am interested in some potential numbers. (Not holding my breath I’ll get anywhere close to the job, but you never know. I feel I have a good chance if given an interview)

Thanks in advance for your reply. It’s much appreciated.

I’m a signaller 7 who ended up in that bracket year ending 01/04/24. Just to add I didn’t live at work either, and was unfortunately sick for 5 weeks in the year.

The Difference · 13 Apr 2024

Signal_Box said:
I’m a signaller 7 who ended up in that bracket year ending 01/04/24. Just to add I didn’t live at work either, and was unfortunately sick for 5 weeks in the year.

Thanks for the response. So that is a pretty convincing amount on top of base line, especially considering the 5 weeks absence and not having to ‘live at work’ to make those numbers. Good insight into potential extra earnings.

The money side sounds very promising, but don’t get me wrong, I think I would love the job if given the chance at it too. I love having to engage my brain and feel this job will do just that. Job satisfaction + good money is a win for anybody. I am not only interested in the money side of this job, as I feel the job itself has a lot to offer for me personally. It’s obviously nice to know the hidden extras when applying though.

Thanks again.

Signal_Box · 13 Apr 2024

The Difference said:
Thanks for the response. So that is a pretty convincing amount on top of base line, especially considering the 5 weeks absence and not having to ‘live at work’ to make those numbers. Good insight into potential extra earnings.

The money side sounds very promising, but don’t get me wrong, I think I would love the job if given the chance at it too. I love having to engage my brain and feel this job will do just that. Job satisfaction + good money is a win for anybody. I am not only interested in the money side of this job, as I feel the job itself has a lot to offer for me personally. It’s obviously nice to know the hidden extras when applying though.

Thanks again.

You definitely get to give your brain a workout that is for sure, especially when the service is shot or there’s an incident.

The Difference · 13 Apr 2024

Signal_Box said:
You definitely get to give your brain a workout that is for sure, especially when the service is shot or there’s an incident.

I thought that would be the case. I have to do the same in my current role with disruption. Brain is fully engaged then! I enjoy those shifts, but couldn’t do them all the time haha. I feel there are a lot of similarities and I love my job, so I’m hopeful I can manage to get in as a Signaller at some point and take my career a step further.

DC36 · 14 Apr 2024

Paul1050 said:
I would need to pass the interview and virtual assessment but Preston, Carlisle both be good. Originally from Yorkshire so more than happy training in York too. But its all dependent on the interview as I never expected to even get this far.

Signalbox.org listed Carnforth as closing 2027.

I wouldn't worry too much about what signal box.org lists, there's 4 boxes from my line listed as closing last year and all 4 are still open. Whilst there have been some rumours floating around about closing one of them that's still going to be a long way off. The other 3 I can't see closing, and think I'll be retired before that ever happens

DMckduck97 · 14 Apr 2024

Bit of a quick one, but do mutual swaps exist in theory? Obviously it may be location based, but say in a ROC and you didn't want to do nights and someone else wanted nights only.

Can this be facilitated? Although I'm sure pigs would fly first instead of someone wanting nights...

The Puddock · 14 Apr 2024

DMckduck97 said:
Bit of a quick one, but do mutual swaps exist in theory? Obviously it may be location based, but say in a ROC and you didn't want to do nights and someone else wanted nights only.

Can this be facilitated? Although I'm sure pigs would fly first instead of someone wanting nights...

That sort of long term mutual change of duty isn't really catered for in signalling; it's more of a traincrew thing. It could be difficult for someone who never does nights to keep up their competency on engineering possessions and isolations, for example. You'd need them to be on the same leg of the roster (i.e. rest day pattern) as you and there would also be problems when your swapmate is sick or on annual leave. I'm not saying it has never been done but I have never come across it or even heard of that sort of arrangement in the signalling grades. Occasionally you'll see people mutually swapping duty for a shift or two* but again it's more management-looking-the-other-way than officially sanctioned.

I far preferred nightshifts when I was working as a Controller and would have done them permanently if I could.

*most often it's a pair of relief signallers where one lives close to box A but has been rostered a shift at box B and the other lives near box B but has been rostered a shift at box A.

fatlad68 · 14 Apr 2024

DMckduck97 said:
Bit of a quick one, but do mutual swaps exist in theory? Obviously it may be location based, but say in a ROC and you didn't want to do nights and someone else wanted nights only.

Can this be facilitated? Although I'm sure pigs would fly first instead of someone wanting nights...

It happens in the ROC I'm at all the time, there are those who always swap their days for nights and vice versa. The trick is to get yourself on the opposite side of the roster to the person you want to swap with on a regular basis.

RailNoob · 14 Apr 2024

The Puddock said:
That sort of long term mutual change of duty isn't really catered for in signalling; it's more of a traincrew thing. It could be difficult for someone who never does nights to keep up their competency on engineering possessions and isolations, for example. You'd need them to be on the same leg of the roster (i.e. rest day pattern) as you and there would also be problems when your swapmate is sick or on annual leave. I'm not saying it has never been done but I have never come across it or even heard of that sort of arrangement in the signalling grades. Occasionally you'll see people mutually swapping duty for a shift or two* but again it's more management-looking-the-other-way than officially sanctioned.

I far preferred nightshifts when I was working as a Controller and would have done them permanently if I could.

*most often it's a pair of relief signallers where one lives close to box A but has been rostered a shift at box B and the other lives near box B but has been rostered a shift at box A.

As a relief I can agree we are always up for swapping and changing if someone lives closer it makes sense and normally is agreed verbally then just ran by the roster clerk to make sure they are happy but 90% of the time its not an issue at all!

The Puddock · 14 Apr 2024

fatlad68 said:
It happens in the ROC I'm at all the time, there are those who always swap their days for nights and vice versa. The trick is to get yourself on the opposite side of the roster to the person you want to swap with on a regular basis.

A permanent swap sanctioned by the LOM?

fatlad68 · 14 Apr 2024

The Puddock said:
A permanent swap sanctioned by the LOM?

LOM is aware as all swaps get put through rosters so it is all published on the weekly roster sheets.

muz379 · 14 Apr 2024

The Puddock said:
there would also be problems when your swapmate is sick or on annual leave. I'm not saying it has never been done but I have never come across it or even heard of that sort of arrangement in the signalling grades. Occasionally you'll see people mutually swapping duty for a shift or two* but again it's more management-looking-the-other-way than officially sanctioned.

To be fair that would also be a problem with traincrew , the TOC i used to work at would honour the swap even when someone was off sick or leave , either way you have a turn to cover . I think officially swaps were meant to be terminated if someone went onto long term sick and was off for more than 12 weeks . But it tended to depend on how vigilant management were in the depot and what the coverage situation was like .

Signalling , ive never known permenant swaps . Ive heard of people swapping the odd week either nights for days , or to get different rest days if they cannot get leave . Usually its for childcare or something like that . Dont think its an officially sanctioned process but management seem to be ok as long as the boxes stay open . And it keeps the people in the boxes content .

Signal_Box · 15 Apr 2024

DMckduck97 said:
Bit of a quick one, but do mutual swaps exist in theory? Obviously it may be location based, but say in a ROC and you didn't want to do nights and someone else wanted nights only.

Can this be facilitated? Although I'm sure pigs would fly first instead of someone wanting nights...

Plenty of people pull a fast one with accommodations onto certain shifts, or certain days I think the official term is “family friendly“ or “ flexible working” obviously the crap turns they don’t want fall on us who understand and commit to the 24/7 shift pattern the role demand and that we signed up to.

Buckshee · 15 Apr 2024

Just a quick question with holidays how do they work as in do you just request you days off or do you need to ask your other mates to sign and they cover them dates

mac · 15 Apr 2024

Buckshee said:
Just a quick question with holidays how do they work as in do you just request you days off or do you need to ask your other mates to sign and they cover them dates

You book your leave with rosters, 1 week in the first 4 months 2 weeks in the next 4 months and 1 week in the last 4 months of the year the rest you book when you need them

The Puddock · 15 Apr 2024

Buckshee said:
Just a quick question with holidays how do they work as in do you just request you days off or do you need to ask your other mates to sign and they cover them dates

Different areas do things slightly differently but basically annual leave days are divided into two types: block (allocated) and ad-hoc.

Block A/L is allocated as a Spring week, Summer fortnight and Winter week. You can swap with other signallers as desired but you must take your block weeks as full weeks at the allocated time. Block weeks are guaranteed and will be rostered regardless of whether or not there is available cover. I think some areas let you choose when your block weeks will be but most areas allocate it on a rotation, so you don't end up with everyone wanting the same weeks off in the school holidays, and over a few years everyone will get the good and bad weeks as they rotate.

Your remaining A/L days are taken as ad-hoc days whenever you want them. These days aren't guaranteed and you only find out if you've definitely got them when the final roster is published at 12:00 on the Thursday before. You send a request to either your roster clerk or manager and they arrange for someone to cover the shift but if there's no cover available then your leave will be declined. You can informally ask another signaller to work a shift you want to take off but ultimately it's up to the roster clerk/LOM whether or not to grant your leave, regardless of who you have asked. The correct order has to be followed for dividing up overtime (in Scotland there is a priority order, in England and Wales it's done by equalisation) so you can't just "ask your other mates" if the shift would have to be covered through overtime.

Lieu days work the same way as ad-hoc annual leave.

Sunset route · 15 Apr 2024

Buckshee said:
Just a quick question with holidays how do they work as in do you just request you days off or do you need to ask your other mates to sign and they cover them dates

mac said:
You book your leave with rosters, 1 week in the first 4 months 2 weeks in the next 4 months and 1 week in the last 4 months of the year the rest you book when you need them

At our location 4 weeks of our leave is rostered with one week first winter period 2 weeks summer period and the final 1 week in the second winter period. The extra days and comp leave days can be taken as and when they are requested subject to enough cover. Also rostered leave can be swapped and also swapped subject to cover.

DMckduck97 · 15 Apr 2024

Signal_Box said:
Plenty of people pull a fast one with accommodations onto certain shifts, or certain days I think the official term is “family friendly“ or “ flexible working” obviously the crap turns they don’t want fall on us who understand and commit to the 24/7 shift pattern the role demand and that we signed up to.

Ahh yes the good old accommodations, I'm sure as in the traincrew world there will be a few select offenders who maximise and bend the terms of contract as much as possible.

My personal favourite must be, I have young kids so I need to be accommodated to early turn only!

Does nobody else have kids then?

Buckshee · 15 Apr 2024

Thank you very much for the quick and informative reply’s As I follow England football home and away will there be times I can say swap shifts or use a holiday if not already off on the shift rota as stated above I need to use full weeks

Sunset route said:
At our location 4 weeks of our leave is rostered with one week first winter period 2 weeks summer period and the final 1 week in the second winter period. The extra days and comp leave days can be taken as and when they are requested subject to enough cover. Also rostered leave can be swapped and also swapped subject to cover.

Do you get the full year shift Rota so you can plan the year basically

RailNoob · 15 Apr 2024

Buckshee said:
Thank you very much for the quick and informative reply’s As I follow England football home and away will there be times I can say swap shifts or use a holiday if not already off on the shift rota as stated above I need to use full weeks

Do you get the full year shift Rota so you can plan the year basically

As a resident you get your full roster days, nights, & rostered sundays from day one and you can work out what your on many years in advance if you wanted due to the way shifts follow the same pattern(Bare in mind if you change roles you may change the line you follow on the roster) As a relief you will know the days you will work but not if its days or nights until the week before. Also bare in mind rdw is very adhoc and can be asked at very short notice on the occasion those willing can make a pretty penny!

mac · 15 Apr 2024

The Puddock said:
Different areas do things slightly differently but basically annual leave days are divided into two types: block (allocated) and ad-hoc.
.

Your remaining A/L days are taken as ad-hoc days whenever you want them. These days aren't guaranteed and you only find out if you've definitely got them when the final roster is published at 12:00 on the Thursday before. You send a request to either your roster clerk or manager and they arrange for someone to cover the shift but if there's no cover available then your leave will be declined. You can informally ask another signaller to work a shift you want to take off but ultimately it's up to the roster clerk/LOM whether or not to grant your leave, regardless of who you have asked. The correct order has to be followed for dividing up overtime (in Scotland there is a priority order, in England and Wales it's done by equalisation) so you can't just "ask your other mates" if the shift would have to be covered through overtime.

Lieu days work the same way as ad-hoc annual leave.

This is something that we differ with we email rosters asking for a day off and then each week we get emailed a leave diary showing if we have that day or not we also can see how many others are off on that day so it gives you some idea if you're going to get it

The Difference · 15 Apr 2024

Just a question on this holiday discussion. See the block weeks you get allocated, how many days AL do they take up? As it’s 12hr shifts, I wouldn’t imagine a weeks holiday to be 5 days as most jobs would be. Just trying to figure out how many floating days you are left with after the 4 weeks block week, as it states 28 days holiday on the website. Thanks.

The Puddock · 15 Apr 2024

The Difference said:
Just a question on this holiday discussion. See the block weeks you get allocated, how many days AL do they take up? As it’s 12hr shifts, I wouldn’t imagine a weeks holiday to be 5 days as most jobs would be. Just trying to figure out how many floating days you are left with after the 4 weeks block week, as it states 28 days holiday on the website. Thanks.

It's pro rata, so typically on a 12 hour roster you get a total of 17 days annual leave which increases to 19 after ten years service. There is a formula to work out how many days pro rata you should get on each particular roster, which the local RMT branch will - or should - keep on top of.

For a block week on a 12 hour roster where you'd normally be rostered to work, say, Monday/Tuesday/Wednesday you would only use three days annual leave. For the Thursday/Friday/Saturday you would be marked on the roster as 'not available' because you're not allowed to work overtime on a block week. The exception is the Sunday before or after your week, which you may work, but working the Sunday in the middle of your summer fortnight is absolutely forbidden.

The Difference · 15 Apr 2024

The Puddock said:
It's pro rata, so typically on a 12 hour roster you get a total of 17 days annual leave which increases to 19 after ten years service. There is a formula to work out how many days pro rata you should get on each particular roster, which the local RMT branch will - or should - keep on top of.

For a block week on a 12 hour roster where you'd normally be rostered to work, say, Monday/Tuesday/Wednesday you would only use three days annual leave. For the Thursday/Friday/Saturday you would be marked on the roster as 'not available' because you're not allowed to work overtime on a block week. The exception is the Sunday before or after your week, which you may work, but working the Sunday in the middle of your summer fortnight is absolutely forbidden.

I gathered the block weeks would maybe use less AL days, so thanks for clearing that part up. I was curious in case they had some other formula of working it out. So using a lot less days for block weeks leaves more AL to take yourself (of course if it is granted when you bid for it) or have I read that wrong? Just to confirm, is the 17 days what you usually have left after your block weeks are in, or is that total pro rata AL for the year? Seems low if it’s the latter. Although I guess if a week off is only 3 or 4 days AL, then you still have around 4/5 weeks a year I guess.

Thanks.

**Edit** I already know the answer to my own question now, after reading that again!

The Puddock · 15 Apr 2024

17 days is the total for the year. If you have to use three days for spring week, six days for summer fortnight and four days for winter week you would have four days left for ad hoc leave. Plus lieu days for bank holidays.

The Difference · 15 Apr 2024

The Puddock said:
17 days is the total for the year. If you have to use three days for spring week, six days for summer fortnight and four days for winter week you would have four days left for ad hoc leave. Plus lieu days for bank holidays.

Thanks mate. I worked that out after my initial post. I currently get 33 days AL on a 5 on 3 off rota, so 5 days gets me 11 days off, which is very nice. I also get to use them all whenever I want (cover pending of course) but we have a spreadsheet to check against who is off and that way we can see if we will be granted or not before even asking. Going back to block weeks does put me off slightly, but I do really want this job! So it will not deter me. You get good days off due to the 12hr shifts, so that makes up for it I guess.

A career as a signaller

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