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Failed to carry rail card- Please help me

H

harely7

Member
Joined
23 Apr 2024
Messages
10
Location
Nottingham
Hey ,

]Recently i was travelling to derby in EMR and I was caught by the staff there for not carrying a ticket for this journey. i had accidently bought ticket for the very next day Which I didn't knew. But the real issue was that she checked my previous tickets also at the same time in my mobile APP, I was travelling with a 16-25 rail card discount but I didn't had one(Its entirely my mistake and shouldn't have done that. But I took the rail card that day itself when i reached back home).
She gave me a Travel Irregularity Report for failed to carry rail card. I am confused what to do now, i am willing to pay the fines. will this lead to criminal conviction? Will it reflect in my DBS, I was applying jobs in Banking sector i am really worried weather this will effect my future. Can anyone please kindly help me? I failed to give my real address also since i was tensed, is there any way to change the address, all other details were correctly collected, including my mail address.
 
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B

Brissle Girl

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Sorry, it’s not clear to me, did you actually have a valid in date railcard, even if you were not carrying it with you when stopped?
 
M

methecooldude

Member
Joined
14 Dec 2015
Messages
152
harely7 said:
Hey ,

]Recently i was travelling to derby in EMR and I was caught by the staff there for not carrying a ticket for this journey. i had accidently bought ticket for the very next day Which I didn't knew. But the real issue was that she checked my previous tickets also at the same time in my mobile APP, I was travelling with a 16-25 rail card discount but I didn't had one(Its entirely my mistake and shouldn't have done that. But I took the rail card that day itself when i reached back home).
She gave me a Travel Irregularity Report for failed to carry rail card. I am confused what to do now, i am willing to pay the fines. will this lead to criminal conviction? Will it reflect in my DBS, I was applying jobs in Banking sector i am really worried weather this will effect my future. Can anyone please kindly help me? I failed to give my real address also since i was tensed, is there any way to change the address, all other details were correctly collected, including my mail address.
Click to expand...

As Brissle Girl mentions, your message is very unclear

Do/Did you have a valid railcard purchased before the interaction with EMR staff never mind, youve answered this

Also giving incorrect details is an offence in itself. Did you receive any paperwork from the EMR staff member, can you upload a copy with personal info redacted
 
F

Fermiboson

Member
Joined
7 Jan 2024
Messages
369
Location
Oxford/London/West Yorkshire
harely7 said:
Hey ,

]Recently i was travelling to derby in EMR and I was caught by the staff there for not carrying a ticket for this journey. i had accidently bought ticket for the very next day Which I didn't knew. But the real issue was that she checked my previous tickets also at the same time in my mobile APP, I was travelling with a 16-25 rail card discount but I didn't had one(Its entirely my mistake and shouldn't have done that. But I took the rail card that day itself when i reached back home).
She gave me a Travel Irregularity Report for failed to carry rail card. I am confused what to do now, i am willing to pay the fines. will this lead to criminal conviction? Will it reflect in my DBS, I was applying jobs in Banking sector i am really worried weather this will effect my future. Can anyone please kindly help me? I failed to give my real address also since i was tensed, is there any way to change the address, all other details were correctly collected, including my mail address.
Click to expand...
Several very important questions you need to clarify which will affect the substance of your case:
1. Are you entitled to a 16-25 railcard?
2. Did you have (i.e. possess, even if not with you) a 16-25 railcard at the time you purchased the ticket?
3. Did you have a 16-25 railcard at the time you travelled?

Assuming the answer to all of those questions is “no”:
You have committed a criminal offence under Railway Byelaws 18 - travel without a valid ticket (since you did not possess the required railcard your ticket indicated you had), and also Regulation of Railways Act 5(1) - failing to provide a correct address. While neither offence will show up even on enhanced DBS checks, normally speaking, in your circumstances a conviction would demonstrate clear dishonesty which would jeopardise your job in the banking industry. The railway could theoretically also prosecute you under Fraud Act 2006, as you essentially pretended to be in possession of a document you did not have when you bought a railcard ticket without intention to get the railcard, but this is highly unlikely and to my knowledge has never happened.

Fortunately, the TOC is unlikely to prosecute you if you cooperate - the main reason for this being that settling out of court makes them more money. Several things you should do ASAP are:
1. Write to the TOC (others will be able to advise where to) offering your correct address, apologising for the oversight and explaining that you were panicked. TOCs are used to people doing this, and will probably be fine with it.
2. Ensure you have prompt access to any addresses electronic or physical mail may arrive in. When the TOC does ask you for a settlement, it will expect very prompt payment and it is a very bad idea to miss these letters. Set up Royal Mail redirection, if applicable, etc.

After this, you should wait for the TOC to contact you. This may take several months as they review your ticket purchase history.

The TOC will likely send you a scary looking letter threatening to prosecute fraud, etc, etc but the important part is where they ask you to give your side. You should make a very apologetic reply, making clear you understand what you have done wrong, the public interest arguments against fare evasion, and any actions you have taken (purchase the correct railcard/season ticket) to ensure you will not fare evade again, and that you would be very grateful to be offered an out of court settlement.

The TOC will then likely send a reply offering said settlement. The amount of this settlement will be the Anytime Single for every journey you have made without a valid railcard, but using a railcard discounted ticket, without regard for fares already paid, plus £150+ admin fees. You will want to know what this amount is, and have it on hand, as the TOC will expect payment within 2-3 weeks.
 
AlterEgo

AlterEgo

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Fermiboson said:
Several very important questions you need to clarify which will affect the substance of your case:
1. Are you entitled to a 16-25 railcard?
2. Did you have (i.e. possess, even if not with you) a 16-25 railcard at the time you purchased the ticket?
3. Did you have a 16-25 railcard at the time you travelled?

Assuming the answer to all of those questions is “no”:
You have committed a criminal offence under Railway Byelaws 18 - travel without a valid ticket (since you did not possess the required railcard your ticket indicated you had)
Click to expand...
Only 3 is relevant here. A "no" to this, alone, is an offence under the Bylaws. The OP has confirmed they do not hold this railcard anyway.
 
B

Brissle Girl

Established Member
Joined
17 Jul 2018
Messages
2,679
AlterEgo said:
Only 3 is relevant here. A "no" to this, alone, is an offence under the Bylaws. The OP has confirmed they do not hold this railcard anyway.
Click to expand...
I think 2 is relevant in relation to the comment about applying for banking roles. Forgetting a railcard is unlikely to be an issue, particularly as there is a protocol for one forgotten railcard in a 12 month period, but a conviction (whilst unlikely) for repeated purchase of railcard discounted tickets when you don't hold one may well be an issue.
 
H

harely7

Member
Joined
23 Apr 2024
Messages
10
Location
Nottingham
Fermiboson said:
Several very important questions you need to clarify which will affect the substance of your case:
1. Are you entitled to a 16-25 railcard?
2. Did you have (i.e. possess, even if not with you) a 16-25 railcard at the time you purchased the ticket?
3. Did you have a 16-25 railcard at the time you travelled?

Assuming the answer to all of those questions is “no”:
You have committed a criminal offence under Railway Byelaws 18 - travel without a valid ticket (since you did not possess the required railcard your ticket indicated you had), and also Regulation of Railways Act 5(1) - failing to provide a correct address. While neither offence will show up even on enhanced DBS checks, normally speaking, in your circumstances a conviction would demonstrate clear dishonesty which would jeopardise your job in the banking industry. The railway could theoretically also prosecute you under Fraud Act 2006, as you essentially pretended to be in possession of a document you did not have when you bought a railcard ticket without intention to get the railcard, but this is highly unlikely and to my knowledge has never happened.

Fortunately, the TOC is unlikely to prosecute you if you cooperate - the main reason for this being that settling out of court makes them more money. Several things you should do ASAP are:
1. Write to the TOC (others will be able to advise where to) offering your correct address, apologising for the oversight and explaining that you were panicked. TOCs are used to people doing this, and will probably be fine with it.
2. Ensure you have prompt access to any addresses electronic or physical mail may arrive in. When the TOC does ask you for a settlement, it will expect very prompt payment and it is a very bad idea to miss these letters. Set up Royal Mail redirection, if applicable, etc.

After this, you should wait for the TOC to contact you. This may take several months as they review your ticket purchase history.

The TOC will likely send you a scary looking letter threatening to prosecute fraud, etc, etc but the important part is where they ask you to give your side. You should make a very apologetic reply, making clear you understand what you have done wrong, the public interest arguments against fare evasion, and any actions you have taken (purchase the correct railcard/season ticket) to ensure you will not fare evade again, and that you would be very grateful to be offered an out of court settlement.

The TOC will then likely send a reply offering said settlement. The amount of this settlement will be the Anytime Single for every journey you have made without a valid railcard, but using a railcard discounted ticket, without regard for fares already paid, plus £150+ admin fees. You will want to know what this amount is, and have it on hand, as the TOC will expect payment within 2-3 weeks.
Click to expand...
I dint had 16-25 rail card with me . It is No to 3 questions. Thanks for you reply. I really appreciate it. How can i get the details of TOC and how to contact them. My train company was EMR. Will the royal mail redirection work ? and the payement to TOC is it done online?
 
B

Brissle Girl

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Joined
17 Jul 2018
Messages
2,679
You need to wait for a letter from them, which will probably threaten you with prosecution, but first ask you to give your side of the story. That will be your opportunity to be honest, contrite, and cooperative, and thus maximise your chance of an out of court settlement.

If you've purchased several tickets via Trainline (or similar), you can expect them to find these, and ask for recompense for those journeys too, based on the Anytime Single fare for each journey taken.

It's worth emphasising that if you aspire to a career in Banking, you really need to give yourself a long hard look as to what you were doing. The industry requires the highest standards of integrity, and a conviction for deliberate fare evasion will almost certainly mean instant dismissal, not least because the industry's regulator requires companies to be very robust in terms of employees' fraudulent actions, for obvious reasons.
 
F

Fermiboson

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369
Location
Oxford/London/West Yorkshire
harely7 said:
I dint had 16-25 rail card with me . It is No to 3 questions. Thanks for you reply. I really appreciate it. How can i get the details of TOC and how to contact them. My train company was EMR. Will the royal mail redirection work ? and the payement to TOC is it done online?
Click to expand...
Use Royal Mail redirection if you have any previous addresses that may show on your card, online accounts etc. that the TOC may send correspondence to, and you are not confident you will be notified if a letter arrives there. I believe it is a rather expensive service so it is not something to use on every possible address.

I don’t know which address EMR uses - other forum members will be able to advise on the best course of action for contacting them.

The TOC will instruct you on various payment methods in their letter offering an out of court settlement.
Brissle Girl said:
You need to wait for a letter from them, which will probably threaten you with prosecution, but first ask you to give your side of the story. That will be your opportunity to be honest, contrite, and cooperative, and thus maximise your chance of an out of court settlement.

If you've purchased several tickets via Trainline (or similar), you can expect them to find these, and ask for recompense for those journeys too, based on the Anytime Single fare for each journey taken.
Click to expand...
The problem for OP is that they gave EMR the wrong address, and need to correct that.
 
H

harely7

Member
Joined
23 Apr 2024
Messages
10
Location
Nottingham
Its my first address when i came to UK. i will try contacting the Prosecution department through phone tmrw, if they doesn't pick the phone then i think i have only this option left. Does anyone know how long it usually take to get a the prosecution letter from EMR?
 
G

Gloster

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Up the creek
I don’t think that Royal Mail will start a redirection order unless the person requesting the order can show proof of residence at the address that the post is to be redirected from. This needs to be two items on the level of a Driving Licence, utility bill, etc. You can’t just go up and ask for post to be redirected from any old address, even if you can prove your identity.
 
F

Fermiboson

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harely7 said:
Its my first address when i came to UK. i will try contacting the Prosecution department through phone tmrw, if they doesn't pick the phone then i think i have only this option left. Does anyone know how long it usually take to get a the prosecution letter from EMR?
Click to expand...
Important to note that most customer facing contact information, e.g. customer services phone number and email, have no connection to the prosecutions department, and that anything you say to them will likely not be relayed to the right people.

The letter will take on the order of months to arrive.

Others will be better positioned to advise on the practicability of the Royal Mail Redirection process as well.
 
H

harely7

Member
Joined
23 Apr 2024
Messages
10
Location
Nottingham
Fermiboson said:
Important to note that most customer facing contact information, e.g. customer services phone number and email, have no connection to the prosecutions department, and that anything you say to them will likely not be relayed to the right people.

The letter will take on the order of months to arrive.

Others will be better positioned to advise on the practicability of the Royal Mail Redirection process as well.
Click to expand...
They gave me slip of the TIR Reference. They have a contact number of the prosecution department in it ? I thought I could connect them through that phone number.
 
AlterEgo

AlterEgo

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Very, very odd that two apparently different cases involve the exact same error, at the same station - Derby.

- Booked tomorrow's ticket instead of today's
- Claimed 16-25 discount when not entitled
- Claimed to actually have a Two Together railcard
- Have a history of purchases of the same
- Gave wrong address

@harely7 if you aren't @minato_o7 do you know this person? Were you stopped together?
 
H

harely7

Member
Joined
23 Apr 2024
Messages
10
Location
Nottingham
AlterEgo said:
Very, very odd that two apparently different cases involve the exact same error, at the same station - Derby.

- Booked tomorrow's ticket instead of today's
- Claimed 16-25 discount when not entitled
- Claimed to actually have a Two Together railcard
- Have a history of purchases of the same
- Gave wrong address

@harely7 if you aren't @minato_o7 do you know this person? Were you stopped together
AlterEgo said:
Very, very odd that two apparently different cases involve the exact same error, at the same station - Derby.

- Booked tomorrow's ticket instead of today's
- Claimed 16-25 discount when not entitled
- Claimed to actually have a Two Together railcard
- Have a history of purchases of the same
- Gave wrong address

@harely7 if you aren't @minato_o7 do you know this person? Were you stopped
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Yeah it was at derby station
 
F

Fermiboson

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I don't think this impacts the advice we would be giving, either way. (Not that, to be honest, I'm entirely convinced - OP, you do need to be open and honest with us (up to the point where you don't identifiably incriminate yourself) or else the advice we give may be incorrect since it is based on false premises.)
 
H

harely7

Member
Joined
23 Apr 2024
Messages
10
Location
Nottingham
I travelled in cross country train , but I was caught by the EMR staff at the station and she gave the letter . she checked my past tickets also. Will this come under Crosscountry TOC or EMR? will they prefer out of court settlement?
 
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